Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: NEW GUESS WHERE IT IS GAME
We have discussed long time about the different "ambiances" of European regions -
Now could you be able to guess those architectural ambiances (all in Europe), Country and region ? They are quite representative of identified regions.
and with which adjective would you qualify them (central, eastern, western)...?
My guesses:
1. Southern France
2. Benelux
3. Switzerland
4. Scandinavia
5. Burgundy
6. Northern France
7. Greece
8. Northern Germany
9. Spain _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
1. Southwest Europe — probably Italy, Spain, or Southern France
2. Northwest Europe — probably Britain, Northern Germany or the Benelux region
3. Central Europe — probably Southern Germany
4. Northern Europe — probably Northern Germany
5. Northern France, I think
6. Northern France, probably Brittany
7. Atlantic coast of France — La Rochelle?
8. Central Germany
9. Southeast Europe — maybe Serbia
before to give the answers I'd like to have also non-European points of view. What interest me is not to give of not the right answer but to know how our so diverse continent is percived by other people...
So André, Deborah, Loic, Uriel, elaine, (and all the other I haven't time to name... sorry ) don't hesitate to give your spontaneous feelings !
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:58 am Post subject:
fab wrote:
before to give the answers I'd like to have also non-European points of view. What interest me is not to give of not the right answer but to know how our so diverse continent is percived by other people...
So André, Deborah, Loic, Uriel, elaine, (and all the other I haven't time to name... sorry ) don't hesitate to give your spontaneous feelings !
Um...unfortunately I can't give you my absolutely spontaneous feelings. I was too eager to wait until you chose to reveal the locations, so I cheated and looked at the photo properties. However, I think I can remember my initial reactions, and besides, some of the file names weren't revealing:
1. Spain or southern France
2. Germany (north? south?)
3. Switzerland or Alpine France
4. Norway?? I actually thought I'd seen a place that looked like this somewhere in the US.
5. central France
6. northern France
7. Atlantic coast of northern France
8. northern Germany
9. Spain
Most of you had often close answer to the reality - with some interesting surprises.
1. All of you identified it as a tipical southern European town. c
Concerning the country only Fredrik was right, but beborah and benjamin had a feeling that the region had something that they tended to identify as French or Spanish - Actually it was well guessed since it is a picture of Albi, a tipical city of the Toulouse region, in the south of massif central.
This region has a very identificable identity, made of the meet between tipical southern canal-tiles and brick walls (as it is also find in some Spanish regions on the other side of pirenees, and in Po valley in Italy).
2. All of you were in a good way. It was generally identifies as being Benelux/Britain/German. Actually it was in Northern Germany, in Berlin, and represent a quite tipical northern European looking, almost Dutch renaissance for the central one, but more north German for the one on the left.
3. All of you identified quite well the region - from southern Germany, Asutria to switzerland. It was actually the swiss capital Bern, Frederik guessed weel once again. This ambiance is more tipîcally German swiss/Bade wurtemberg/Alsacian than really like Austria or the rest of Germany. It could be qualified as "western- central European, more than central European I think.
4. Excepted Pauline all of you have identified it as a tipically northern European ambiance. Benjamin was right, it was Northern germany, in Hamburg. It could be also in Scandinavia, and as deborah said it could looked also quite north American (especially concerning the diversity of house of different styles in the middle of a green residential area.
5. Frederik guessed well, having been there he recognise a tipically Burgondian village. This is actually the tipical ambiance of the north-east of France (as Benjamin rightly noticed it), especially burgondy and Ile-de-France regions.
It was not Ireland, and not either representative of central France.
6. All of you identified it as northern France ambiance. Benjamin was a bit more precise as he felt it to be more more especially north-western. It was actually Chinon, in Loire Valley.
Actually less northern than the preceding. I think the tipical grey/blue roofs gave you a more northerner feel while it is in fact just a more westerner characteristic. Those areas have warm climates as we notice the cypress trees on it.
7. For Pauline and Frederic it was a comple error. Frederick identified as Being very mediterranean ambiance (Greece), while Pauline felt it was southern French. It was actually in Atlantic coast of France as Ben and Deb rightly guessed it: Poitou-Charentes coast (close to La Rochelle) - Benjamin was very close to the good answer!
Actually it is just at south of Britanny, and quite close to the preceding region - about 80km only more at the west - quite hard to believe when comparing both... But on the south of Loire river, where the tipical north-western French ambiance finish quickly for a more "mediterranean" one, even if the place is more in the northern half of France than the southern one.
8. All of you guessed this tipically German picture. But only Benjamin identified it well with a central German one.
9. None of you guessed it. It is the old town of Nice. Most of you felt a mediterranean feel, but deborah and Frederick were on the wrong side of it.
It could in reality being more easily in Italy, only 20 Km away from there.
The surpise was Ben opinion... I still wondering what coud be Serbian about it !
[/quote]
Actually I tried to find tipical pictures from the ambiances of Germany (+switzerland) and France we were taloking about in other threads, but this time more oriented to the architectural ambiance of the different regions we spoke about in the past.
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject:
fab wrote:
4. Excepted Pauline all of you have identified it as a tipically northern European ambiance. Benjamin was right, it was Northern germany, in Hamburg. It could be also in Scandinavia, and as deborah said it could looked also quite north American (especially concerning the diversity of house of different styles in the middle of a green residential area.
You hit the nail on the head -- the diversity is what made me think it could be North American. I'm surprised that it's Hamburg, though, since I thought that area was completely flat.
Quote:
7. For Pauline and Frederic it was a comple error. Frederick identified as Being very mediterranean ambiance (Greece), while Pauline felt it was southern French. It was actually in Atlantic coast of France as Ben and Deb rightly guessed it: Poitou-Charentes coast (close to La Rochelle) - Benjamin was very close to the good answer!
Actually it is just at south of Britanny, and quite close to the preceding region - about 80km only more at the west - quite hard to believe when comparing both... But on the south of Loire river, where the tipical north-western French ambiance finish quickly for a more "mediterranean" one, even if the place is more in the northern half of France than the southern one.
Looking just at the buildings, I didn't have much of a clue (meaning that I'm not familiar with building styles in that area). But the sky looked quite Atlantic to me.
Looking just at the buildings, I didn't have much of a clue (meaning that I'm not familiar with building styles in that area). But the sky looked quite Atlantic to me.
In fact they are very similar type of villages and buildings that you find in Britanny for exemple, with the difference that the roofs are tipically southern European. I'm often amused to see how different traditional roofs can give, often inconciently, a certain feeling, despite the simar urbanism and architectonic characteristics. The tipical white Breton house, but with a mediterranean roof instead of the high inclined ardoise one can gives a almost Greek feeling :
Here Ile d'yeu in Vendée:
To compare : Andalousia
While "Belle Ile", In Britanny at only 80km northern from there looks like this:
When I first saw that picture, I actually thought that it was Birmingham, because there's a building in Birmingham that looks almost exactly like that. It was only upon closer examination that I realised that it wasn't.
Quote:
While "Belle Ile", In Britanny at only 80km northern from there looks like this:
That actually looks similar to Devon or Cornwall in Southwest England, or maybe even Ireland.
I agree with Benjamin; that picture reminds me of many piers and beach fronts here in Devon. Most of them looks a lot bigger than that one though.
Reminds me of the houses along the built-up side of the Exmouth coastline:
The harbour layout itself strongely reminds me of the exquisite town of Clovelly, one of the most amazing towns I have ever been to:
I know the harbour itself might not look too pretty, but believe me, the village itself...I would take up an entire post just posting pictures of the village, and how it drops down a cliff and onto the beach, and how people drag their shopping up and down the cobbled village paths with sleighs, and how all of the houses are preserved and unaltered from centuries ago...
Yes, Those regions have a similar ambiance! Some people would call it "Celtic" - I think it is better to speak about a "extreme western Europe ambiance" (more accurate but a bit too long!)
I heard those regions of Cornwall and devon claim a "Celtic" identity, is that true ?
Actually a lot of places in the extreme western of Europe have a certain air de famille - because sharing common rocky coasts, similar very oceanic conditions, etc... And the way of life linked to atlantic: fishing ports, etc.
In architecture the ardoise roofs, made from a common material of extreme western Europe, and houses often made with local geological material make them looking alike - with each time its own characteristic; in each case tipically British, French or Spanish.
That picture you put up of Cornwall reminds me very strongely of the quay in my local city, lol. Do you happen to know where that 'Cornwall picture' was taken?
Interesting. I just researched this, and apparently there are six modern nations that can be defined as Celtic: Brittany, Cornwall, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Scotland and Wales. My opinion was definately that the latter four was quite Celtic, especially Ireland and Wales. Other places that apparently retain some of these characteristics include Devon and Cumbria, and to be honest, out of all of these places, I would name Cumbria as being what I imagine to be most Celtic, even though it has no traces of a Celtic language. I never think of Devon or Cornwall as being Celtic, and no one down here describes them as thus. However, as Cornwall's language, Cornish, is a Celtic language, then I suppose Cornwall really is more Celtic than I initially thought of it as...
The problem with the term "celtic" is that it is have been heavily re-invented concept during the romantisist perid of the 19th when the different European people tried to link themselves with an idealized vision of their ancestry - it gave birth to a folkloric revival which as in fact quite few to see with the cultural realities.
For exemple Bretagne is sometime considered as "CEltic" while in fact only a little part of it was celtic-speaking.
Celtic music itself is nothing more than form of reviaval medieval-musics (that were existing in all Europe, not only in "celtic nations". The 19th century put the label "celtic" on it, and now we all are conviced that it is.
I see the "celtic thing" as a sort of marketing/ideological label to describe a group a lands that share similar ambiances in landscape, climate and re-born folkloric traditions. In this meaning most of the extreme European lands could claim a "celtic" identity.
Actually I like very much those lands and the ambiance that goes with, included lanscapes and music - But I don't think that is necesaary "Celtic"
We should invent maybe a new concept for this, maybe "Atlantic", even if we would have to precise that not all atlantic regions are concerned by this ambiance.
the lands that include that very specific and emblematic ambiance correspond more or less to these in blue:
Actually I like very much those lands and the ambiance that goes with, included lanscapes and music - But I don't think that is necesaary "Celtic"
We should invent maybe a new concept for this, maybe "Atlantic", even if we would have to precise that not all atlantic regions are concerned by this ambiance.
Or how about we don't obsess over terminology, and just use the standard, accepted term, and not worry about, or invent long-winded names like "extreme north western European atlantic ambiance". Let's just call it "Celtic" like we always have, and as it is understood in the modern sense (of or relating the cultures or peoples of the British Isles and other locations which speak or historically speak a Celtic language).
When I say "Celtic" I'm referring mainly to a historical linguistic-cultural group and a modern ethnic group, which retains a "Celtic" identity in the British Isles. The architecture, scenery, and overall ambiance normally associated with these regions is often called "Celtic", and for that reason. There's nothing wrong with that, and any attempt to invent a new word for it is rather pointless. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
Some of your pictures (1st and 5 especially) look to me very English (bow-windows, lined-houses,etc.) and not have the "atlantic ambiance" the we find in north-western France.
Quote:
Or how about we don't obsess over terminology
terminology is important, because if we use a ambiguous word, the meaning change and confuse people.
Quote:
and just use the standard, accepted term and not worry about, or invent long-winded names like "extreme north western European atlantic ambiance". Let's just call it "Celtic" like we always have,
Used that way, "Celtic" is a neologism, and it has not always been used with those "extreme western conotations".
By the way I don't think the term would be "extreme north-western European", but just "extreme western", since it is not especially a northern European concept at all, since it include also spanish regions (even some portuguese could fit in) - and its geographic center is more Britanny than the Birtish isles.
Quote:
...and as it is understood in the modern sense (of or relating the cultures or peoples of the British Isles and other locations which speak or historically speak a Celtic language).
Why refering it to especially the British isles ? The anciant celtic culture was not originary for western Europe and "extreme western Europe" was not the especially the most "celtic" regions at that time. Almost all western Europe was celtic-speaking - it was more a continental thing.
the problem is that "celtic" has taken two different meanings. And using it in two differnt case create a confusion in mind which leads to some misconceptions.
As you said one is associated with some countries of the British isles or Britanny which had historically been (at least in some parts of it) celtic-speaking. Claming that as a whole Scotland or Britanny were celtic-speaking is not even true. In most part of Britanny it has not been the case anymore since the roman colonisation as in a lot of places of Europe, the same for Galicia or Asturias (and I think for a big part of Scotland also).
Quote:
When I say "Celtic" I'm referring mainly to a historical linguistic-cultural group and a modern ethnic group, which retains a "Celtic" identity in the British Isles.
this is precicely the problem. Using a word with two different concepts leads to a confusion. Some people assume for exemple that the anciant Celtic people and culture is originary from the British isles and that the anciant celtic people and culture was carring with it "extreme European characteristics", whic was not the case - one exemple is the architecture and the ambiance you precieved as been "celtic": this ambiance has nothing to see with any celtic culture and did not existed in the places where the anciant celtic-speaking people were mainly established like Gaul, central Europe, Spain or northern Italy.
The other problem is that what made the legacy of the "extreme western Europe "celtic nations" was only the language, the other characteristics we associate with it are not especially of celtic origin, (such as medieval musics, oceanic climates and architecture and way of life link with it : you could find similar ambiances in Norviegian coasts, which as never been Celtic !)
So since those regions lost the celtic thing in them (the language), they lost their celticness.
Quote:
The architecture, scenery, and overall ambiance normally associated with these regions is often called "Celtic", and for that reason. There's nothing wrong with that, and any attempt to invent a new word for it is rather pointless.
What is wrong is that this ambiance has nothing to see with any etnic, linguistic or cultural concept linked to the Celts - but is just a geograpahical characterist : a group of distinct lands which share similar geological and climatical ambiant.
The similarities in the traditional architecture are only due because traditional architectures are a respons to a specific climatical condition, and not at all because any "celtic" cultural unity. Similar conditions give birth to similar looking, at least superficially, concerning the kind of roofs for exemple (the organisation in terms of urbanism and spatial architectural organisation is often completly different between Britanny and Scotish architecture for exemple).
some of these lands were the refuge of the last celtic languages for centuries, but a lot of others didn't and were not at all linked with a "celtic" culture, but still look similar;
what European regions's name or adjective would you use sponteaneously to describe them ?
Celtic, mediterranean, northern European, southern European, balkanic, eastern, scandinavian, etc... ?
Last edited by fab on Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:33 pm; edited 4 times in total
Could be. But the second picture reminds me most of the villages in the Castagniccia (Haute-Corse), on the way to the university town of Corte from Bastia.
Albi is amazing, lot monuments, and a great history and culture.
Other best one: Carcassonne:
Collioure (Catalonia) and also near Port-Vendre:
Narbonne
Villefranche de conflent (Cerdagne)
Ville de Foix (Ariège)
Perpignan, great historic city, with beautiful mudejar, romanic, medieval, and other architectures, with a great rugby team: USAP.
I visited all this beautiful cities, It's a magnificent and hearty region, the sea and the Pyrenean mountains are very close, I have a very good souvenir of it (except the mosquitos... )
All times are GMT + 2 Hours Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9Next
Page 1 of 9
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
) don't hesitate to give your spontaneous feelings !
)