I don't think there is much future for 'Upper Received Pronunciation', which is largely limited to the British aristocracy these days, though was standard on the BBC until about two decades ago. The traditional aristocracy have lost a lot of their associated prestige (and relative wealth and thus power) in recent times, and there just isn't the desire to imitate them anymore. The Queen still speaks it (though she has modified it somewhat during her life), but her grandchildren don't.
The more general Received Pronunciation is still spoken by quite a lot of middle-class and upper-middle-class people, mainly in Southeast England, but also in other parts of England and Wales, and to a much lesser extent in Scotland and Ireland. However, the problem is that it's so prestigious that it's almost stigmatised. I used to speak RP, and often found it to be a social disadvantage, even if it was probably an advantage in certain situations without me realising it — but at any rate, I've lost it now, which I think is probably for the best in my case, ultimately.
I think the future for Standard British English lies largely in the contemporary speech of Southeast England.
One interesting thing though is that the London-based media very often use Scottish Standard English in advertising, especially the Edinburgh and Inverness varieties. This is partly because research has found that people tend to like it and think that it sounds 'trustworthy'. It's also because the version used in the media is completely 'Standard English' in its vocabulary and grammar, so is widely understood — and crucially, at least for most people outwith Scotland, it lacks any kind of connotation of social class whatsoever.
Didier69 wrote:
I think the standard North American English may probably become the norm for the language in the future.
I think it already is, to be honest. I know a lot of people from other European countries who have learnt English as a second language, and most of the time, it's very obvious that they have learnt mainly American English, and that their main focal point for learning English has been the United States, not Britain.
Didier69 wrote:
Is that not the most spoken form of English ?
It depends whether you consider most native English speakers in North America to speak 'Standard North American English' or not. However, I'm fairly certain that the majority of native English speakers in the world today speak a North American variety of the language.
Benjamin,
1. Do you have any link to the site where I could hear "Upper Received Pronunciation"?
2. How would you describe the accent you have right now? You are originally from Birmingham and I remember when I was in Oxford last year I met a young woman whose accent was really hard to understand for me. I asked her where she was from and she said:" from Birmingham, don't worry - many people can't understand Birmingham accent". I don't know if there is anything like "Birmingham accent" at all so I'm asking you
Benjamin,
1. Do you have any link to the site where I could hear "Upper Received Pronunciation"?
Not specifically, but I'd suggest searching for videos of the Queen and some of her older relatives on YouTube. That's basically it.
KSa wrote:
2. How would you describe the accent you have right now?
I'm not quite sure how I'd describe it myself, but other people have described it variously in the following ways:
— posh Scottish
— private school Scottish
— very 'Englishy' Scottish
— Scottish but lived in England a long time
— Scottish with English parents
— posh Edinburgh
— Edinburgh Morningside
— well spoken and highly educated Lothian (i.e. Edinburgh region)
— North Berwick (rich town in East Lothian, many people originally from England)
— middle-class east-central Scotland
— Inverness
— Isle of Skye
— somewhere way up North in Scotland
I'll leave you to interpret that yourself.
KSa wrote:
You are originally from Birmingham and I remember when I was in Oxford last year I met a young woman whose accent was really hard to understand for me. I asked her where she was from and she said:" from Birmingham, don't worry - many people can't understand Birmingham accent". I don't know if there is anything like "Birmingham accent" at all so I'm asking you
Birmingham does have a distinctive regional dialect, yes. It is consistently voted the 'most hated' dialect in Britain, and is often mocked.
I'd like to hear you. Have you ever considered putting an audio file here? I'm about to do it, maybe soon. I would be curious about your opinion on my accent. I only need to spend some time on the tutorial - it seems a bit complicated and I'm not very fluent in computer technologies
Benjamin wrote:
Birmingham does have a distinctive regional dialect, yes. It is consistently voted the 'most hated' dialect in Britain, and is often mocked.
Interesting. My English friend (from London) says that also Liverpool accent is mocked. [/quote]
You are originally from Birmingham and I remember when I was in Oxford last year I met a young woman whose accent was really hard to understand for me. I asked her where she was from and she said:" from Birmingham, don't worry - many people can't understand Birmingham accent". I don't know if there is anything like "Birmingham accent" at all so I'm asking you
Birmingham does have a distinctive regional dialect, yes. It is consistently voted the 'most hated' dialect in Britain, and is often mocked.
I always wonder what's with you guys, and your markedly strong opinions about how each other speak - heh
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:50 am Post subject:
Travis wrote:
I always wonder what's with you guys, and your markedly strong opinions about how each other speak - heh
People in the US can have equally strong opinions about how the rest of the country speaks. In my Spanish class the other night we got onto the subject of regional accents/dialects in Spanish and which ones the teacher liked and disliked, then it moved on to the same with the English language. A couple of us Americans mentioned which accents we aren't terribly fond of, and then I asked the one Brit in our class about which British accents she didn't like, and she said she actually liked them all.
You are originally from Birmingham and I remember when I was in Oxford last year I met a young woman whose accent was really hard to understand for me. I asked her where she was from and she said:" from Birmingham, don't worry - many people can't understand Birmingham accent". I don't know if there is anything like "Birmingham accent" at all so I'm asking you
Birmingham does have a distinctive regional dialect, yes. It is consistently voted the 'most hated' dialect in Britain, and is often mocked.
I always wonder what's with you guys, and your markedly strong opinions about how each other speak - heh
I have not found any sign of opinion in what I wrote, just mere facts and questions
I'm not quite sure how I'd describe it myself, but other people have described it variously in the following ways:
— posh Scottish
— private school Scottish
— very 'Englishy' Scottish
— Scottish but lived in England a long time
— Scottish with English parents
— posh Edinburgh
— Edinburgh Morningside
— well spoken and highly educated Lothian (i.e. Edinburgh region)
— North Berwick (rich town in East Lothian, many people originally from England)
— middle-class east-central Scotland
— Inverness
— Isle of Skye
— somewhere way up North in Scotland
Are you rhotic??? _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Yes — I've gradually become rhotic over the past few months. I suppose I speak a kind of rhotic RP with the occasional alveolar trill, which is basically what 'posh Scottish' is.
I actually found it really interesting what one of my linguistics lecturers was saying a while ago about how there can sometimes be an element of subconscious choice with regards to the dialect that we speak, and how it can reflect a kind of subconscious (or perhaps even conscious) desire to either blend in with other people or to set yourself apart from other people — I remember her giving examples including Catholic women working with Protestants in Belfast, and fisherman on some island in the US which had recently attracted lots of tourists. Of course, some people's speech simply never changes in that way, which I imagine is why many people seem to find my experience difficult to understand (even though it's not really that unusual).
Lazar wrote:
I have to say, Benjamin, it would be great to do a phonological analysis of your crazy new dialect.
Fair enough — I'll record myself reading the Rainbow Passage sometime when there's no-one else in my house.
Yes — I've gradually become rhotic over the past few months. I suppose I speak a kind of rhotic RP with the occasional alveolar trill, which is basically what 'posh Scottish' is.
Beeeenjaaamiiiin!!! Where is your identity??? _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Yes — I've gradually become rhotic over the past few months. I suppose I speak a kind of rhotic RP with the occasional alveolar trill, which is basically what 'posh Scottish' is.
Beeeenjaaamiiiin!!! Where is your identity???
Middle class, LOL.
I always find it hilarious though that that linguistics lecturer I mentioned is always convinced that she speaks 'Standard Southern British English' — but actually, she speaks a very refined version of Scottish Standard English. When she was teaching us 'IPA for British English', she insisted that we learnt it for RP (even though we're in Scotland) and claimed that she spoke like that, even though she blatantly doesn't. She writes /k0:/ but says /k0r/, writes /kEa:t/ but says /kart/, writes /kćt/ but says /kat/, writes /wen/ but says /WEn/ and writes /haUs/ but says /hEUs/ etc. — it's bizarre. I know a lot of people (myself included) were a bit uncertain about the exam — we weren't quite sure whether to transcribe it exactly as we'd say it or to play it safe and transcribe into RP.
(Ugh, I hate X-SAMPA, but I can't get some of the IPA characters to show up).
...or even wannabe Scottish / quasi-Scottish / pseudo-Scottish / self-proclaimed Scottish / honorary Scottish etc.
Benjamin wrote:
I always find it hilarious though that that linguistics lecturer I mentioned is always convinced that she speaks 'Standard Southern British English' — but actually, she speaks a very refined version of Scottish Standard English.
There is often a huge huge gap between the variety you claim to speak and the actual variety you speak. But it's funny when phonologists/phoneticians are unaware of how they actually speak.
Benjamin wrote:
When she was teaching us 'IPA for British English', she insisted that we learnt it for RP (even though we're in Scotland) and claimed that she spoke like that, even though she blatantly doesn't. She writes /k0:/ but says /k0r/, writes /kEa:t/ but says /kart/, writes /kćt/ but says /kat/, writes /wen/ but says /WEn/ and writes /haUs/ but says /hEUs/ etc. — it's bizarre. I know a lot of people (myself included) were a bit uncertain about the exam — we weren't quite sure whether to transcribe it exactly as we'd say it or to play it safe and transcribe into RP.
In my experience it's safer to transcribe the words in RP (if she said it was the norm) than the way you pronounce them.
By the way, doesn't she pronounce /haUs/ as /hćUs/ instead of /hEUs/? (It's more or less acceptable in contemporary RP, isn't it?)
Benjamin wrote:
(Ugh, I hate X-SAMPA, but I can't get some of the IPA characters to show up).
Me, too and me, neither.
_________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
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