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Porthos

For us English speakers, Dutch and German look and sound incredibly similar. Most Anglophones cannot easily tell the two apart, in either written or spoken form.

I can tell them apart now, but only after taking an active interest in them. I understand a lot more Dutch than German in written form at least, and it is obvious that Dutch is more similar to English than High German is.

But what about other West Germanic speakers? Do you Dutch speakers find German to be easily understandable, at least when written and vice versa? How much more difficult is English for Dutch and German speakers then either are to eachother?
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Icke · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject:

I'm not a linguist but I will try to explain what I know about it:
German and Dutch are more similar to each other than English is to one of them, though there are words in English and Dutch that look more alike than they do to their German equivalents because of the High German consonant shift.
But the English language differs slightly from both of them due to English‘s simplified grammar, the Great Vowel Shift, the large influx of Latin-based words and the meaning shift of many of its germanic-based vocabulary.

The syntax of Dutch and German are very similar, although the latter one is a bit more complicated, that's why I guess that a Dutch would have more problems with learning German than the other way around.

Another feature of Dutch which shows great similiarity to German is its vocabulary.
Here are a few examples:

Dutch – German

recht - recht, beledigen - beleidigen, gevaar - Gefahr, verwant - verwandt, kaal - kahl, verbergen - verbergen, ergernis - Ärgernis, geduld - Geduld, angst - Angst, brief - Brief, schuld - Schuld, geld - Geld, jagen - jagen, kind - Kind, nacht - Nacht, morgen - morgen, arbeid -Arbeit, aanvangen - anfangen, begeleiden - begleiten, burgemeester - Bürgermeister, handel - Handel, bericht - Handel, niemand - niemand, liefde - Liebe, bescheiden - bescheiden, gerucht - Gerücht, bewegen - bewegen, krijgsgevangen - kriegsgefangen, verdrag - Vertrag, geheim - geheim, verraad - Verrat, dienst – Dienst, ...and so on.
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Porthos · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

Benjamin [inactive] · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject:

I actually think that Dutch often sounds rather similar to a number of English dialects from rural England, whereas German never does. I wonder if the idea that German and Dutch sound extremely similar is more the perspective of a speaker of American English.

Fredrik · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:25 am Post subject:

Many interesting points here, mevrouwtje en mijnheertjes.

I have always heard that the Dutch understand Germans better than vice versa. This is probably due to both different degrees of exposure and to German phonology being more "classical" than the Dutch one.

Porthos wrote:

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Icke · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:08 am Post subject:

Benjamin [inactive] · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject:

As for English dialects which I think sound a bit similar to Dutch, there isn't really one, but there are several which can sometimes at certain times. The main ones I'm thinking of are West Country dialect and East Anglia dialect. Although these regions are not particularly close to each-other, the regional dialects can sound similar to the untrained ear. West Country dialect is often rhotic, and the way which final Rs are pronounced can be similar to Dutch, like in words such as 'where'/'waar'. East Anglia dialect, which incidentally is spoken in the part of England nearest to the Netherlands, where the landscape looks almost identical to rural parts of the Netherlands, is actually non-rhotic, but can sound similar to Dutch because of certain vowel sounds, final consonant devoicing, and possibly something unexpected with V and W, although I'm not sure about the last one.

Equally, when I've heard Dutch spoken, it has sometimes reminded me of certain Yorkshire dialects, mainly due to the rhythm and the pronunciation of words like 'hallo', 'ja', and 'kom binne'.

And then in some ways, Scottish English has some similarities to Dutch, especially with some vowel sounds (such as [y]), rolled Rs (all of which are pronounced), and the guttural [x] sound which is sometimes found in Scotland as well.

Akoni · Expert Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 169 Location: Nederland

The old dialect in Kent is almost the same as Old Dutch example:

"hebban olla vogala nestas hagunnan
hinase hic enda thu
uuat unbidan uue nu"

Now I have to say that most linguists - who are trying to figure out where it was written - are not sure if that's Old Dutch or Old Kentish.

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Fredrik · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:41 am Post subject:

Porthos · Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject:

Hey Fredrik, where did you find those Frisian proverbs at? I especially like the ones that look a lot like English.

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Fredrik · Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:32 am Post subject:

Frisian proverbs:
http://www.digizeitschriften.de/c...mand=docconvert&docid=D141953

But the translations are in German, I'm afraid.
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