Benjamin [inactive]
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Belief in God in European countriesI found this and thought it was interesting — it's based on the results of a Eurobarometer poll in 2005, which asked people if they believed in God or 'some spirit of life force' in most European countries:
What I think is most interesting is where the 'anomalies' are, such as how certain countries seem to be significantly more religious than what seems to be the 'norm' now. Also how some countries which are usually thought of as similar in other ways (e.g. Poland and Czechia) actually have very different levels of 'religiosity'.
Of course, choropleth maps are always oversimplifications though — I'm sure that the level for Bavaria is not the same as that for the former East Germany, for example.
For those of you who live in the various countries shaded on the map, would you say that the statistics reflect more or less the people you know? For me, yes, I think so — although admittedly, much of the time I don't know whether someone believes in God or not.
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greg in noord-frankrijk
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Je suis assez surpris que la France apparaisse comme moins athéiste que la République tchèque. Et encore plus surpris par le taux de 90 % pour la Turquie : il me semble un peu fantaisiste. Bien sûr, tout dépend de la définition que l'on attribue au verbe croire.
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KSa
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| greg in noord-frankrijk wrote: | | Je suis assez surpris que la France apparaisse comme moins athéiste que la République tchèque. Et encore plus surpris par le taux de 90 % pour la Turquie : il me semble un peu fantaisiste. Bien sûr, tout dépend de la définition que l'on attribue au verbe croire. |
Greg,
In Czechia they don't have so many immigrants from Muslim countries 
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| greg in noord-frankrijk wrote: | | Bien sûr, tout dépend de la définition que l'on attribue au verbe croire. |
Tout à fait d'accord. On peut phraser diversement la question (et voici mes réponses) :
Êtes-vous convaincu que Dieu existe ? Non, absolument pas.
Croyez-vous en Dieu ? Ah je sais pas ... ouais, non, peut-être ; je change souvent d'avis, et ça dépend surtout de la définition de Dieu.
Croyez-vous soit en Dieu soit en quelque esprit de vie ? Oui, d'habitude, je pense.
Êtes-vous athéiste ? Non.
Bien que, au moins d'après ce sondage, seulement 30-40 % des Britanniques (par example) prétendent à croire en Dieu, je doute également que 60-70 % d'entre eux se considèrent comme athéistes, même si c'est peut–être la réalité si l'on considère la pratique religieuse de nos jours.
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Josh Lalonde
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I'm surprised by the low percentage in the Balkans. Some of those countries define their nationality mostly by religion (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia), and I would expect them to answer that they are in fact religious. Ireland is an interesting case. I would like to see the results for Northern Ireland too; I bet they would be in the 90s.
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Walker
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| Benjamin wrote: | | For those of you who live in the various countries shaded on the map, would you say that the statistics reflect more or less the people you know? |
Yes, I would. It seems that few people here believe in God. As far as I know none of my friends believe in God.
| Benjamin wrote: | | For me, yes, I think so — although admittedly, much of the time I don't know whether someone believes in God or not. |
We don't talk much about belief around here, so it's hard to know sometimes.
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greg in noord-frankrijk
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| KSa wrote: | | greg in noord-frankrijk wrote: | | Je suis assez surpris que la France apparaisse comme moins athéiste que la République tchèque. Et encore plus surpris par le taux de 90 % pour la Turquie : il me semble un peu fantaisiste. Bien sûr, tout dépend de la définition que l'on attribue au verbe croire. |
Greg,
In Czechia they don't have so many immigrants from Muslim countries |
Perhaps. Still, most French people of "Muslim" background are plus royalistes que le roi.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Josh Lalonde wrote: | | I'm surprised by the low percentage in the Balkans. Some of those countries define their nationality mostly by religion (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia), and I would expect them to answer that they are in fact religious. |
Most of the Balkan countries are shaded grey, which means that they were not included in the survey for whatever reason.
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Josh Lalonde
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| Benjamin wrote: | | Josh Lalonde wrote: | | I'm surprised by the low percentage in the Balkans. Some of those countries define their nationality mostly by religion (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia), and I would expect them to answer that they are in fact religious. |
Most of the Balkan countries are shaded grey, which means that they were not included in the survey for whatever reason. |
I interpreted that as 0-10%. So maybe I am right about the percentages in the Balkans.
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Deborah
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| Benjamin wrote: | | Most of the Balkan countries are shaded grey, which means that they were not included in the survey for whatever reason. |
It looks as if the only countries considered are those in the EU. (Correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm sure someone will -- as I'm not quite sure which countries are in the EU.)
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Deborah wrote: | | Benjamin wrote: | | Most of the Balkan countries are shaded grey, which means that they were not included in the survey for whatever reason. |
It looks as if the only countries considered are those in the EU. (Correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm sure someone will -- as I'm not quite sure which countries are in the EU.) |
It seems to be the EU plus the EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and the official EU candidate countries — which could be why Switzerland, Norway, Croatia and Turkey are shaded (and also Romania and Bulgaria, which weren't EU members states when this poll was conducted, but are now).
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Deborah
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Yeah, I was thinking about Turkey, as a candidate country, but I didn't know about the EFTA.
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KSa
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What I find the most interesting is that Romania is on the top. That Poland and Portugal are navy blue is not surprising at all. The blue colour of Italy and Ireland will be getting fainter and fainter with each future poll. I don't expect France, UK or Sweden to go brighter any more because of Muslim immigrants and their offspring. The most interesting I find about the results is that so many people in western Europe don't believe in "God or some spirit of life force". I can understand that one can renounce specific religion - Christianity or Islam - but that so many people reject the possibility of existence of God is a bit strange. That would mean that the scientific hypothesis concerning origin of life and its evolution totally satisfy them. As my education is highly related to biological sciences, I am an evolutionist but... well aware of the gaps, absuridities and improbabilities this "theory" provides! I renounce the hypothesis that dead chemicals could randomly form self-multiplying conglomerations without any "assistance" from the outside. Even if I somehow believed that life arose from inorganic matter by itself - so where the inorganic matter came from?
Well, it seems I drifted away from the main topic 
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| KSa wrote: | | I don't expect France, UK or Sweden to go brighter any more because of Muslim immigrants and their offspring. |
Neither do I. Although there is a noticeable conservative minority (in addition to the far smaller 'radicalised' minority), many of the younger 'Muslims' I know are not particularly religious.
| KSa wrote: | | The most interesting I find about the results is that so many people in western Europe don't believe in "God or some spirit of life force". I can understand that one can renounce specific religion - Christianity or Islam - but that so many people reject the possibility of existence of God is a bit strange. That would mean that the scientific hypothesis concerning origin of life and its evolution totally satisfy them. |
I'm not sure that most people in the UK (and other countries with a similar statistic according to this survey) necessarily 'reject the possibility of the existence of God' as such. Of course, there are people like that, but I actually think it's probably more of a don't know, don't care attitude towards 'God' (or gods) and religion in general in most cases.
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greg in noord-frankrijk
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| KSa wrote: | | I don't expect France, UK or Sweden to go brighter any more because of Muslim immigrants and their offspring. |
I don't know for Sweden & the UK. As for France, immigrants (and immigrants' offspring) are largely non-religious : close to 70 % according to latest polls (roughly the same as "catholics" & "jews").
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fab
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hello everyone! I didn't post here since quite a lonf time! ...
What we can say watching this map is that it doesn't seem to have any rational rule... and that, contrary to what many people tend to think religiosity seems to have few to see with
- Geographical position (southern Europe does is not more religious than Ireland or Poland)
- Being part of the former eastern bloc or western one (ex: Tchequia vs Romania in "eastern bloc", or Sweden vs Portugal)
- being culturally close, ex among central European slavic countries of catholic tradition such as Poland and Tchequia...
| Quote: | | It looks as if the only countries considered are those in the EU. (Correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm sure someone will -- as I'm not quite sure which countries are in the EU.) |
Yes, with Switzerland,Iceland and Norway added.
| Quote: | | For those of you who live in the various countries shaded on the map, would you say that the statistics reflect more or less the people you know? |
I think it depends of what is defined as "religious". There is a lot of degrees of "religiosity". Saying that about at least 60 are complete atheist doesn't seem realistic. basically this question is complicated, because there are people who were catholic by familia tradition, but do not practice or do not believe in god. I know people who are part of a religious practice but not especially in the concept of "god" - inversely a lot of people do not exclude the idea of the existance of god or of sort a "universal spirit"...
another thing is the question of secularism, which speak about the relation of the faith with the state. I think a country can be at once very secular and having a very religous population, and inversely...
[img]but that so many people reject the possibility of existence of God is a bit strange. That would mean that the scientific hypothesis concerning origin of life and its evolution totally satisfy them[/img]
A bit strange, why? I personally don't know if life is born sponteanously by itself, but the fact of believing that God created it doesn't bring any answer to the question - because if we think that everything that exist needs a creator we can't help to ask the question of who created god himself? If God could manage to create himself, why Life couldn't create itself too.
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greg in noord-frankrijk
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Salut fab et bienvenue au bercail !
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Rio
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I'd be very interested to see the unconsidered areas (Russia and Balkans) in the survey. I suspect the Orthodox are much more religious and spiritual by nature as people. I see it in my own family and myself.
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Walker
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| Rio wrote: | | I'd be very interested to see the unconsidered areas (Russia and Balkans) in the survey. I suspect the Orthodox are much more religious and spiritual by nature as people. I see it in my own family and myself. |
What do you mean, "spiritual by nature"?
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Loic
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Maria Sharapova can usually be seen with a tiny crucifix around her neck. I think it says something.
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Rio
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| Walker wrote: | | Rio wrote: | | I'd be very interested to see the unconsidered areas (Russia and Balkans) in the survey. I suspect the Orthodox are much more religious and spiritual by nature as people. I see it in my own family and myself. |
What do you mean, "spiritual by nature"? |
I'm no theologist and must study actual doctrinal differences in the different forms of Christianity but it seems to me that Orthodoxy is more accepting of things existing (eg that there is a god, that Jesus was born not through Immaculate Conception) and there is not a need for analysis of things that seems to happen in Western Christianity; very fluid/visceral and can't be contained. It seems to me that some things can't be explained and people are just happy with that. Rather, its a total and utter "fatalistic" style of belief that exists in Orthodoxy. I do know that Orthodoxy does believe that man and God are one, that death is sin as opposite to guilt (original sin), this somehow must make people more religious I believe.
I hope that makes sense.
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