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André in Zuid-Afrika

Chatterbox

Our current top 10 posters...

1. Porthos 668
2. André 501
3. Benjamin 420
4. Deborah 391
5. Fab 334
6. Elaine 332
7. Loic 304
8. Greg 255
9. Pauline 239
10. Joanne 170

(Fredrik [165] and KSa [164] are very close to making this list)
Benjamin [inactive]

Porthos' post count seems to have increased by about a 100 everytime I look at it, lol.
Fredrik

Interesting to consider the Anglophone ratio of the list. Perhaps I too would have been there if my English vocabulary had been larger, as I often experience that certain Anglophones have written a handful of posts while I have been busy looking up a single word!

(And BTW I use a web German - English dictionary for that, as most Norwegian - English dictionaries are crap. In German I always know all the hard words that fail me in English, as the words for most abstract concepts have been directly translated from German into Danish-Norwegian.)
Benjamin [inactive]

Fredrik wrote:
Interesting to consider the Anglophone ratio of the list. Perhaps I too would have been there if my English vocabulary had been larger, as I often experience that certain Anglophones have written a handful of posts while I have been busy looking up a single word!

You're not alone — I have to use a dictionary almost every time Greg posts in English, because his English is considerably better than mine.
Elaine

I can't believe someone's got you beat, André. You are (or should I say "were") the all-time chatterbox champ. And what about Uriel? You guys are letting me down.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Elaine wrote:
I can't believe someone's got you beat, André. You are (or should I say "were") the all-time chatterbox champ. And what about Uriel? You guys are letting me down.


Hey, it happens! Sander was our first champion, and he's not even on the top 10 list now...
Loic

And Kirk was one of the leaders a long time ago.

He still leads though, but from the bottom.
Joanne

For real? How'd I get in there? " alt="" border="0" />






(André check your PayPal account )
Deborah

I actually came in 4th? I need to get a life! Hasta luego -- tengo que estudiar el pinche subjontivo.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Deborah wrote:
I actually came in 4th? I need to get a life! Hasta luego -- tengo que estudiar el pinche subjontivo.


And you've been promoted to the next rank! Congratulations!
Elaine

Deborah wrote:
I actually came in 4th? I need to get a life! Hasta luego -- tengo que estudiar el pinche subjontivo.


Nothing that a tough 12-step program couldn't cure, langcaffeine addict.
Deborah

Elaine wrote:
Nothing that a tough 12-step program couldn't cure, langcaffeine addict.

Well, there's a case of the pot calling the kettle café au lait!
Elaine

Deborah wrote:
Well, there's a case of the pot calling the kettle café au lait!





KSa

Benjamin wrote:
Fredrik wrote:
Interesting to consider the Anglophone ratio of the list. Perhaps I too would have been there if my English vocabulary had been larger, as I often experience that certain Anglophones have written a handful of posts while I have been busy looking up a single word!

You're not alone — I have to use a dictionary almost every time Greg posts in English, because his English is considerably better than mine.

Benjamin: when I first saw your posts I thought you're a non-native speaker with very fluent command of English. Actually, I like reading your posts because they are quite easy to understand for me. I don't mean they are trivial or anything. I just apreciate that you don't use too many colloquial expressions but still your vocabulary range is broad enough for me to learn and improve my English.
Deborah

Elaine wrote:
Deborah wrote:
Well, there's a case of the pot calling the kettle café au lait!






And I thought I was being original! Of course, it still wasn't original, because I was just paraphrasing the line from the 1970 movie "The Boys In The Band": "There's a case of the pot calling the kettle beige!" (Beige was pronounced as in French.)
Benjamin [inactive]

KSa wrote:
Benjamin: when I first saw your posts I thought you're a non-native speaker with very fluent command of English. Actually, I like reading your posts because they are quite easy to understand for me. I don't mean they are trivial or anything. I just apreciate that you don't use too many colloquial expressions but still your vocabulary range is broad enough for me to learn and improve my English.

Thank you! Actually, I sometimes have doubts myself as to whether or not English is really my native language, lol. When I'm suddenly scared or very surprised, I often seem to speak or shout involuntarily in German for some reason, even though I wouldn't say that my level of German resembles fluency most of the time.

I don't generally use many colloquial in real life, but I specifically avoid them on this forum because I know that a lot of people here are not native English speakers.

And by the way — if I didn't know, I would have thought that you were a native English speaker.
Walker

Benjamin wrote:
KSa wrote:
Benjamin: when I first saw your posts I thought you're a non-native speaker with very fluent command of English. Actually, I like reading your posts because they are quite easy to understand for me. I don't mean they are trivial or anything. I just apreciate that you don't use too many colloquial expressions but still your vocabulary range is broad enough for me to learn and improve my English.

Thank you! Actually, I sometimes have doubts myself as to whether or not English is really my native language, lol. When I'm suddenly scared or very surprised, I often seem to speak or shout involuntarily in German for some reason, even though I wouldn't say that my level of German resembles fluency most of the time.

I don't generally use many colloquial in real life, but I specifically avoid them on this forum because I know that a lot of people here are not native English speakers.

And by the way — if I didn't know, I would have thought that you were a native English speaker.


Here, expressions in English aren't uncommon. They seem to be much more common in Stockholm than anywhere else in the country, though. Most of the time I find it ridiculous, especially since it usually comes from the mouths of trendy people. However, I am not innocent, I say stuff in English every day (silently to myself).

How come you generally don't use colloquial expressions in real life? Is it a question of speaking "well"? You said you speak RP and not your local dialect (even though it comes through sometimes).
Uriel

Quote:
Interesting to consider the Anglophone ratio of the list. Perhaps I too would have been there if my English vocabulary had been larger, as I often experience that certain Anglophones have written a handful of posts while I have been busy looking up a single word!


Wow, I'm really surprised, Fredrik. Your English always comes across as superb and completely fluent -- I've never noticed a single error or deficiency in your vocabulary at all!

I'm pretty laidback and I use colloquialisms all that time, because that's how I'm phrasing it in my head. I know we have a lot of posters with varying levels of fluency, but I'd hate to "dumb down" my own posts because of that -- I would think that learners of any language would benefit from seeing the language as it is really used by native speakers, and colloquialisms are part of that. Sometimes I catch myself using some phrase that I know marks me as American and kind of giggle as I write it, but what the hey -- that's what I am, no need to be ashamed.

(Walker, by the way, has a near-perfect command of colloquialisms that makes a lot of his posts a scream to read -- especially when I know he's Swedish! There's a boy who's done some serious homework!)

I also think it's fascinating to read the very different styles of all the people here, native and otherwise -- you can feel each personality so clearly. Everyone comes across as so distinct, and I think that's great.
Walker

Uriel wrote:
I'm pretty laidback and I use colloquialisms all that time, because that's how I'm phrasing it in my head. I know we have a lot of posters with varying levels of fluency, but I'd hate to "dumb down" my own posts because of that -- I would think that learners of any language would benefit from seeing the language as it is really used by native speakers, and colloquialisms are part of that. Sometimes I catch myself using some phrase that I know marks me as American and kind of giggle as I write it, but what the hey -- that's what I am, no need to be ashamed.


Heck, no! I think you're doing the right thing!

Uriel wrote:
(Walker, by the way, has a near-perfect command of colloquialisms that makes a lot of his posts a scream to read -- especially when I know he's Swedish! There's a boy who's done some serious homework!)


Oh, thanks a bunch, Uriel! Having watched a lot of American shows and movies it's been hard not to pick up some of those colloquialisms.
Benjamin [inactive]

Walker wrote:
How come you generally don't use colloquial expressions in real life? Is it a question of speaking "well"? You said you speak RP and not your local dialect (even though it comes through sometimes).

One could say that it's partly about speaking 'well', yes — I find that RP and a lot of slang don't really go very well together. Essentially though, I just don't really think to use much colloquial language, even though I can understand a lot of it (the Birmingham variety, that is — not, say, the Glasgow variety).
Fredrik

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
Interesting to consider the Anglophone ratio of the list. Perhaps I too would have been there if my English vocabulary had been larger, as I often experience that certain Anglophones have written a handful of posts while I have been busy looking up a single word!


Wow, I'm really surprised, Fredrik. Your English always comes across as superb and completely fluent -- I've never noticed a single error or deficiency in your vocabulary at all!.


Oh, thanks. But that's because I use the German - English web dictionary all the time.
Loic

Is your German better than your English, Fredrik?
Fredrik

I would say I am equally fluid or more fluid in English, but when it comes to abstract vocabulary, my German is better, because the Danish-Norwegian words usually correspond very neatly with the German ones (of which they usually are direct translations), whereas the English ones are much harder for me, as they come from the Romance sphere.

BTW loic: How many languages do you actually speak and for which purposes do you actually use them?
Loic

Interesting question. To be perfectly honest, I only consider myself bilingual in English and Mandarin. According to my definition, I am ready to pick up the gauntlet when it comes to making a speech, participating in formal debates and moots or making medical inquiries. Obviously, I'd prefer the doctor to explain to me complicated and potentially life-threatening surgical invasions in English.

I only use Teochew and Malay as a 'kitchen tongue'. It is peculiar for me to speak Teochew in a formal setting such as the school. If I do speak Teochew in public, it is used to exclude others who do not know the language. If I do speak Malay, it is usually employed with the intention to ingratiate myself with a social group.

I can speak French, but I do not have the confidence to make a speech, participate in a formal debate and moot or make medical inquiries in the language. I cannot be witty in French and I notice that most jokes I try to crack in French always fall flat on my audiences. Nor am I able to make a spontaneous and sardonic comeback when verbally challenged in French. I sometimes help out my uncle when he has French-speaking tourists so I get to make mistakes and learn them, so to speak. He is a tour guide, by the way. Most French tourists who need a guide are invariably old and a little hard on hearing. It is a challenge to make myself understood at times.

As for Cantonese, Hainanese and Taiwanese, I can understand the speech better than I speak them. Cantonese is a marvellously complicated language: I always invite lots of mirth when I try to speak it. People'd be hooting in laughter and say that I've confused the tones or I've used the wrong sort of slang. It gets a little depressing and discouraging, I must say.

You may be wondering about the lexical similarities or differences amongst the various Chinese speeches. I'll give you an example. Here's how we'd say one, two, three in the Chinese dialects I know:

Mandarin - yi, er, san
Teochew - jit, noh, saa
Cantonese - yat, yee, sam
Hainanese - jiak, noh, taa
Taiwanese - jit, noh, saa

I do not know a single word of a Scandivanian tongue, with the possible exception of Tack! that I see in Ikea. But I sometimes wonder if Danish, Swedish and Norwegein are more alike than the various Chinese speech communities.


I'll throw back the same question to you, Fredrik: How many languages do you speak and under what circumstances do you use them? Do you adhere to the philosophy of your namesake Frederik IV by using Spanish with God, French with philosophes, Italian with women and German with your horses?
Fredrik

Wow, loic, you certainly are our most multilingual member!
Being bilingual in both the world languages of English and Chinese must be a great asset, carreer-wise!
Did you learn both English, Mandarin and Malay at home?

You are probably right about the Scandinavian languages being more similar than the different varities of Chinese, and the example you give confirms it. I have seen the Chinese speech community compared to the Germanic language community. If the situation between Cantonese and Mandarin is like Norwegian and German, i.e. you won't understand it without education, but then it's easy; then that seems correct.

Although my namesake Frederik IV was a bilingual Danish-Norwegian king (who spoke German to his courtiers and Danish to his horses), I think you had Emperor Charles V in mind.
I'm a long step away from being as multilingual as you and Keizer Karel. I am only truly fluent in Norwegian, orally in my southwestern dialect and literally in Danish-influenced Bokmål. (Though learning the other literary variety, Nynorsk, is compulsory in school and I have a fairly good grip on it. I don't use it often, but recently I have written two exams in Nynorsk.)

I have passive competence in Danish and Swedish and a fairly good command of English and German. (But, as mentioned, my abstract English is not that good. Did you notice my mistake in the post above; I used "fluid" instead of "fluent" about my English skills! )

English I use for international contacts (e.g. today i called the airline KLM and was forwarded to a (probably Indian) call centre where they spoke English), except for my contacts with Germans, with whom I can practize my German. (I plan to become a high school teacher of German, history and Norwegian).

My haltering comprehension of written French and Dutch is very negligible, but speaking of Dutch: You use the phrase "kitchen tongue", but I searched for it on Google, and in English it seems to be only some sort of kitchen equipment, not a linguistic expression. But Dutch has the expression "keukentaal", or often the phrase "huis-tuin-en-keukentaal" (= house, garden and kitchen language). Could Sander elaborate on what this exactly means? Perhaps it was here on Langcafé that we introduced this Dutch word into English?
André in Zuid-Afrika

Fredrik wrote:
My haltering comprehension of written French and Dutch is very negligible, but speaking of Dutch: You use the phrase "kitchen tongue", but I searched for it on Google, and in English it seems to be only some sort of kitchen equipment, not a linguistic expression. But Dutch has the expression "keukentaal", or often the phrase "huis-tuin-en-keukentaal" (= house, garden and kitchen language). Could Sander elaborate on what this exactly means? Perhaps it was here on Langcafé that we introduced this Dutch word into English?


My guess would be that refers to more informal language/slang. Afrikaans in its early years was mockingly referred to as a "kombuistaal" (kitchen language), meaning it was an inferior language meant only to be spoken at home.
Deborah

Quote:
You use the phrase "kitchen tongue", but I searched for it on Google, and in English it seems to be only some sort of kitchen equipment, not a linguistic expression.

Kitchen tongs?




I hope you don't mind my pointing out a misuse (I think!) of a word:

Fredrik wrote:
My haltering comprehension of written French and Dutch is very negligible....

"Haltering" means putting a halter on something or somebody. This is a halter:



I figure the word you wanted was "halting", but maybe you meant something I didn't get.
Fredrik

Thanks, Deborah! I meant "halting", but as it was a Germanic word I didn't bother to check it in the dictionary.
And what poor animal do you put that strange halter on?
Aha, so that's kitchen tongs. The Google hits for "kitchen tongues" must be misspellings, then.

So "kombuis" is the Afrikaans word for "kitchen", andré? Where did that strange word come from and why did you abandon the lovely Dutch word "keuken"? As Dutch and Afrikaans" seem to be the only languages with a word for "kitchen tongue", then surely keuken/kombuis must be the epitome of them! (Sander is going to protest, I guess..... )
Elaine

Fredrik wrote:
Thanks, Deborah! I meant "halting", but as it was a Germanic word I didn't bother to check it in the dictionary.
And what poor animal do you put that strange halter on?


André in Zuid-Afrika

Fredrik wrote:
Thanks, Deborah! I meant "halting", but as it was a Germanic word I didn't bother to check it in the dictionary.
And what poor animal do you put that strange halter on?
Aha, so that's kitchen tongs. The Google hits for "kitchen tongues" must be misspellings, then.

So "kombuis" is the Afrikaans word for "kitchen", andré? Where did that strange word come from and why did you abandon the lovely Dutch word "keuken"? As Dutch and Afrikaans" seem to be the only languages with a word for "kitchen tongue", then surely keuken/kombuis must be the epitome of them! (Sander is going to protest, I guess..... )


In 17th century Dutch, "keuken" was the word for a kitchen on land, "kombuis" the word for a kitchen on a ship... The Dutch settlers, having spent months on a ship before arriving in the Cape, had probably forgotten all about "keuken" by that time! The word doesn't exist at all in Afrikaans.
Loic

I suppose a kitchen tongue is only spoken at home and rarely beyond the hearth. I did remember reading a history of Afrikaans and how it started off as a kitchen tongue before evolving into a language of prestige.

Actually, since we are in a multilinggual forum, I am flattered that you consider me multilinggual. But I must say that you have forgotten quite a number of other participants whose fluent command of national tongues come to mind. Greg has this unusual ability to bandy about in English, Spanish and German apart from this native tongue. The UN recognises only 5 official languages and Greg already knows 3 of them. In contrast, I only know two (I would not have the gall to use my French in the UN).

How did you know that the call centre which KLM forwarded your call to was in India? Was the accent really that peculiar?
Fredrik

I see, Elaine! I didn't recognize the halter without the horse.

That kombuis story is really funny, andré! I recognized the word, as a ship kitchen is called "bysse" in Norwegian.

I have done some research and although "keukentaal" doesn't appear in the Dutch dictionaries I checked, it gets lots of Google hits. German "Küchensprache" seems to be strictly gastronomical, but German has the expressions "Küchenlatein" for bad Latin. So "keukentaal" seems to be a true Batavism/Africanism that we have translated into English here on Langcafé!

loic:
Yes, there are several members who know several languages, but you seem to be the one that uses most languages in your local environment, even operating with a patois keukentaal!
I'm not sure about the call centre being in India, I just assumed, as the person sounded Asian.
Uriel



And here's a perfect example of why we don't get the warm and fuzzies when we think of our germanic cousins:

"Silent Night" in Norwegian:

Glade jul, hellige jul!
Engler daler ned i skjul.
Hit de flyver med paradis-grønt,
hvor de ser hva for Gud er skjønt.
Lønnlig i blant oss de går.
Lønnlig i blant oss de går.

This would be titled "WTF?" in English!

I found an interesting site that translates "Silent Night" into about every language you've ever heard of (and a few that I hadn't):

http://silentnight.web.za/translate/

Even the Frisian and Afrikaans versions were pure gibberish to me -- and they're supposed to be the closest to English!

The Frisian version:

Stille nacht, hillige nacht
kom yn glâns, kom mei macht;
nim oer de ieuwen yn dreamen ús mei,
doe't in Bern yn 'e earmoede lei
fan in skuldige wrâld,
fan in skuldige wrâld.

Upon the veldt around a braai:

Stille nag, heilige nag
Jesus kind lank verwag
Lig uit lig uit die Vader se ryk
word uit liefde aan mense gelyk
Loof die hemelse Kind !
Loof die hemelse Kind !

Around a big ol' wheel of smoked Gouda:

Stille nacht, Heilige nacht,
David's zoon lang verwacht.
Die miljoenen eens zaligen zal,
Wordt geboren in Bethlehems stal.
Hij, der schepselen heer,
Hij, der schepselen heer.

In the original German:

Stille Nacht! Heil'ge Nacht!
Alles schläft; einsam wacht
Nur das traute hoch heilige Paar.
Holder Knab' im lockigen Haar,
|: Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh! :|

And on a certain small island off the east coast of Greenland (ooh, forget it!)

Hljóða nótt, heilaga nótt.
Hvílir barn vært og rótt.
Betlehemsstjarnan með blikinu, skær,
boðar um jörðina tíðindin kær.
:,: Mikil er himinsins náð.:,:
Benjamin [inactive]

Quote:
Glade jul, hellige jul!

It's easy — glad yule, holy yule!
Uriel

I would have gone with "glad yule, hellish yule" at first glance.

All I can tell, from comparing lines, is that I think they've tweaked the lyrics in most cases -- they aren't quite the same from one language to the next.
Fredrik

Benjamin wrote:
Quote:
Glade jul, hellige jul!

It's easy — glad yule, holy yule!

Correct! (Or even "hallow yule", if we want to make it 100 % clear for Uriel that there is nothing hellish about it, because that would be helvetes in Norwegian. )

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
And here's a perfect example of why we don't get the warm and fuzzies when we think of our germanic cousins:

You don't know what you are missing, or rather now you'll know:

Glade jul, hellige jul! = Glad Yule, hallow Yule!
Engler daler ned i skjul. = Angels descend into hiding
Hit de flyver med paradis-grønt, = Here-to they fly with paradise-green
hvor de ser hva for Gud er skjønt. = where they see what for God is fair
Lønnlig i blant oss de går. = Secretly among us they go
Lønnlig i blant oss de går. = Secretly among us they go
Unlike you guys, we Norwegians (and Danes; as many Norwegian Christmas carols it came from/was imported via Denmark) understand the words, but not much more of that text. A famous topic of religious speculation for Norwegian children is: Where-to do the angels descend? (Perhaps Uriel's hellish guess was not that wild...?)

I liked the Frisian version real good:
Stille nacht, hillige nacht = Still night, hallow night
kom yn glâns, kom mei macht; = come in splendour, come with might
nim oer de ieuwen yn dreamen ús mei, = take over the ages in dreams us with (you)
doe't in Bern yn 'e earmoede lei = (to) where the Child in squalor lay
fan in skuldige wrâld, = for a guilty world
fan in skuldige wrâld. = for a guilty world

And the Icelandic is nice to:
Hljóða nótt, heilaga nótt. = Soundless night, hallow night
Hvílir barn vært og rótt. = (there) rests (a) child wary? and red
Betlehemsstjarnan með blikinu, skær, = the Bethlehem star with the winks, bright
boðar um jörðina tíðindin kær. = bids around the world tidings dear
:,: Mikil er himinsins náð.:,: = great is heaven's grace
Benjamin [inactive]

Quote:
Glade jul, hellige jul! = Glad Yule, hallow Yule!
Engler daler ned i skjul. = Angels descend into hiding
Hit de flyver med paradis-grønt, = Here-to they fly with paradise-green
hvor de ser hva for Gud er skjønt. = where they see what for God is fair
Lønnlig i blant oss de går. = Secretly among us they go
Lønnlig i blant oss de går. = Secretly among us they go

Wow, it's actually really similar when you put it like that!
Uriel

Hmm -- Helvetes ... Helvetica ... isn't that Switzerland?

You both definitely have an edge on me -- I barely see any cognates that I can get a hold on. Of course, since the lyrics are nothing at all like the English lyrics, I don't even have the luxury of being able to compare words side-by-side ... unfair!

Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
'Round yon virgin, mother and child
Holy infant, so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace.

(If memory serves; I didn't look it up.)
Deborah

That's how I remember it, Uriel.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Update on the list....

1 (1). Porthos 809
2 (4). Deborah 628
3 (2). Andre 627
4 (3). Benjamin 571
5 (6). Elaine 461
6 (5). Fab 428
7 (7). Loic 413
8 (9). Pauline 328
9 (8). Greg 324
10 (-). Uriel 268
Deborah

Fredrik wrote:
Hvílir barn vært og rótt. = (there) rests (a) child wary? and red

Maybe vært means "wrinkled" -- it is newborn, after all.

No, I looked it up and it means "sound". The translator I used didn't recognize rótt, however.
Fredrik

Benjamin wrote:

Wow, it's actually really similar when you put it like that!

Yes, isn't it! I guess the Yule time brings out our basic, Germanic emotions...

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
'Round yon virgin, mother and child

This seems strange, as if there were three of them!

Uriel also wrote:
Quote:
Hmm -- Helvetes ... Helvetica ... isn't that Switzerland?

Yes, and "Confoederatio Helvetica" does look rather unsettling with Norwegian eyes, just like the sign "Gods Expedition" (= Cargo Handling Office) at Hell (!) (= luck) railways station outside Trondheim in Norway does in Anglophone eyes!

Deborah wrote:
Quote:
Hvílir barn vært og rótt. = (there) rests (a) child wary? and red
Maybe vært means "wrinkled" -- it is newborn, after all.
No, I looked it up and it means "sound". The translator I used didn't recognize rótt, however.

"Sound" makes sense, as I saw it used for reffering to sleep when I googled it. But I would never have guessed that, as "vært" means "been" in Norwegian! "rótt" might be the neutral conjugation of raud = red, but I'm not sure, as I would expect "raudt".

I have just fallen in love with this line from the Frisian version:
nim oer de ieuwen yn dreamen ús mei,
= take over the ages in dreams us with (you)
= take us over the ages with you in dreams.....ah!

It reminds me of a poem by the Welsh coal miner poet Idris Davies, which isn't to be found on the Internet, but goes something like:
When I was six or seven
and Christmas time to Rhymney came
....
I chose the star that glittered most
above the hills of Rhymney town
to be the star of Bethlehem
that shone on Jesus Christ
...
And Rhymney shared with Bethlehem
a star on Christmas night

This naïvistic belief in how Christmas Night and the Star of Bethlehem can transcend time and place reminds me of how much of our Christmas lore that is inspired by the ideas of St. Francis of Assisi: The whole Nativity scene and the realization that the Crusades were pointless, as the possession of Jerusalem or Bethlehem had no deaper, religious meaning, because Bethlehem can be anywhere, through the good grace of that star.

If we had followed that first friar from Assisi and realized that the Holy Land is no holier than our back yards, there would perhaps have been a little bit more peace in the world...
(End of today's sermon!)
Uriel

Quote:
Uriel wrote:
Quote:
'Round yon virgin, mother and child

This seems strange, as if there were three of them!


That was always my thought as a child, too!

Actually, now that I look at it, it may actually be supposed to read: Round yon virgin mother and child. But the pause between virgin and mother sounds like a comma, even though it may simply be that the line is supposed to "wrap around":

Round yon virgin
Mother and child
André in Zuid-Afrika

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
Uriel wrote:
Quote:
'Round yon virgin, mother and child

This seems strange, as if there were three of them!


That was always my thought as a child, too!

Actually, now that I look at it, it may actually be supposed to read: Round yon virgin mother and child. But the pause between virgin and mother sounds like a comma, even though it may simply be that the line is supposed to "wrap around":

Round yon virgin
Mother and child


Finally you've got it! ... Round yon viiiiirgin-mother and child... The pause isn't supposed to be between virgin and mother, but after the -vir- in virgin (a very quick pause).
Deborah

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Finally you've got it! ... Round yon viiiiirgin-mother and child... The pause isn't supposed to be between virgin and mother, but after the -vir- in virgin (a very quick pause).

I think the confusion results from "mother" falling on count 1 of a measure of 6/8, whereas "virgin" falls on count 4 of the previous measure, so that we hear "mother" grouped with "child" (which is in the same measure), rather than with "virgin".

(André, we stretch out viiiiirgin too.)
Uriel

Exactly. Sounds like a different line.
Fredrik

Aha, mystery solved!
André in Zuid-Afrika

Thought I'd just mention that we've just set a new record.... 16 users (including guests) online tonight, the biggest number ever!
Shouga

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Thought I'd just mention that we've just set a new record.... 16 users (including guests) online tonight, the biggest number ever!


19 now! Where are all these guests coming from?
André in Zuid-Afrika

Shouga wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Thought I'd just mention that we've just set a new record.... 16 users (including guests) online tonight, the biggest number ever!


19 now! Where are all these guests coming from?



Hm, if they would just register and talk to us...
Julian

Congratulations, Deborah, for crossing the big 1,000!

And a belated congratulations to you, Porthos!



André, you used to keep track of these milestones.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Julian wrote:
Congratulations, Deborah, for crossing the big 1,000!

And a belated congratulations to you, Porthos!



André, you used to keep track of these milestones.


Sorry....

Congratulations, Deborah!!!!
Deborah

Golly, thanks!
Deborah

Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).
Walker

Congratulations to everyone I've missed saying it to!

Deborah wrote:
Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).


Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.
Deborah

Welcome back! Yay!!
André in Zuid-Afrika

Walker wrote:
Congratulations to everyone I've missed saying it to!

Deborah wrote:
Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).


Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Does this mean you're back , or are you just popping in?
Walker

Thanks, Deborah!

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Walker wrote:
Congratulations to everyone I've missed saying it to!

Deborah wrote:
Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).


Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Does this mean you're back , or are you just popping in?


The former!
Elaine

Välkommen tillbaka, Walker! XOXO
Walker

¡Gracias, mamita!
Pauline

Walker wrote:
Try four months without the internet...

Terrible!!!!!

Welcome back!!
Walker

Hey, Pauline!

Well, you get used to it. It's actually worse when you have it but lose it for a day or two. This time I knew I'd be without it for some time.
Elaine

Walker wrote:
¡Gracias, mamita!


Un placer, sueco. (Hey, the Californican/Mexifornian colors!)
André in Zuid-Afrika

Walker wrote:
Thanks, Deborah!

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Walker wrote:
Congratulations to everyone I've missed saying it to!

Deborah wrote:
Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).


Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Does this mean you're back , or are you just popping in?


The former!


Great!! Welcome back, we missed you!!!
KSa

Walker wrote:
Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Welcome back, Walker!
I don't know if it can cheer you up but before I first saw the internet in the late 90s I'd been without it for 25 years!!!
Walker

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Walker wrote:
Thanks, Deborah!

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Walker wrote:
Congratulations to everyone I've missed saying it to!

Deborah wrote:
Now is everyone's chance to catch up to me -- or pass me by. My computer at home hasn't been working for the past couple of days and I've only been using the one at work. Now there's a 3-day holiday coming up, so unless I get my computer up and running, I'll be going a whole 3 days without posting (or being able to read other people's posts ).


Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Does this mean you're back , or are you just popping in?


The former!


Great!! Welcome back, we missed you!!!


Thank you! It's nice to be back!
Walker

KSa wrote:
Walker wrote:
Try four months without the internet... I'll never be able to catch up.


Welcome back, Walker!
I don't know if it can cheer you up but before I first saw the internet in the late 90s I'd been without it for 25 years!!!


Oh, I don't think I need any cheering up! That's when I first got the internet too. A question that is not seldom asked is 'how did I manage before the internet?' It's a silly question but you have to admit it's very practical. You were gone too, were you not? Anyway, it's good to have you here.
André in Zuid-Afrika



I was feeling a little nosey today,
so I thought I would look in on you and see
if you are sitting at your computer.

Yup, there you are!
Elaine

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:


I was feeling a little nosey today,
so I thought I would look in on you and see
if you are sitting at your computer.

Yup, there you are!


Yes, here I am! You caught me gettin' my groove on.


André in Zuid-Afrika

Mathijs

Hi you guys !  What's new ?

I'm sorry it has been such a while,
I guess I kinda lost track of the forum (again) ...
Shame on me.

Anyway, I hope to visit more often from now on. By the way, thanks for the encouraging e-mail, Andre.

Happy holidays everyone,

Mathijs.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Mathijs wrote:
Hi you guys !  What's new ?

I'm sorry it has been such a while,
I guess I kinda lost track of the forum (again) ...
Shame on me.

Anyway, I hope to visit more often from now on. By the way, thanks for the encouraging e-mail, Andre.

Happy holidays everyone,

Mathijs.


Matthys!!!! Welcome back!!!   Hope we'll see a lot more of you now...  
Mathijs

So what to discuss ?    And no, I'm not up for the whole West-Flemish / Dutch thingy anymore.
Mathijs

Mathijs wrote:
So what to discuss ?    And no, I'm not up for the whole West-Flemish / Dutch thingy anymore.


Well to start, my current occupation is studying hard in the fair city of Ghent.
I'm 'done' with languages, not that they don't interest me anymore, but I had a new 'calling'. I'm studying 'graphics & digital media' at the Artevelde College. It includes a lot of drawing and sketching, which I like very much.
I'm currently living in Ghent, in a small studio and I'm very much enjoying myself. I'll show you guys some of my recent sketches soon, allrighty ?

So, how have all of you been ? What's it been, like 2 years ?
André in Zuid-Afrika

Mathijs wrote:
Mathijs wrote:
So what to discuss ?    And no, I'm not up for the whole West-Flemish / Dutch thingy anymore.


Well to start, my current occupation is studying hard in the fair city of Ghent.
I'm 'done' with languages, not that they don't interest me anymore, but I had a new 'calling'. I'm studying 'graphics & digital media' at the Artevelde College. It includes a lot of drawing and sketching, which I like very much.
I'm currently living in Ghent, in a small studio and I'm very much enjoying myself. I'll show you guys some of my recent sketches soon, allrighty ?

So, how have all of you been ? What's it been, like 2 years ?


Yes, you've been neglecting us... Just teasing, glad to have you back, like the avatar! Envy you for living in Ghent...  

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