Thought I'd explain why I was absent for the greater part of the past six months. The reason was because I was doing an exchange in France and well, exchange students simply cannot justify spending their time in front of a computer if it means forsaking the opportunity to binge drink at some nameless party organised by a nameless person in a nondescript location.
I considered posting this thread in the academic thread initially, but some of the topics I plan to address are primarily cultural in nature. Besides, I did not do much swotting at all and it would be an injustice to talk about academic work.
So I spent my autumn semester at a Grande Ecole called Essec. Grandes ecoles in France make a virtue out of having long convoluted names and this is why many of them have wisely chosen to market themselves through a short and crisp acronym. Now, Essec is allegedly the second best business school in France although when I was there, the administration took great pains in educating us about the superiority of Essec's MBA programme vis-à-vis its eternal rival, HEC Paris. They managed to produce reports from obscure sources trumpeting the achievements of Essec and how the school has recently overtaken HEC Paris in the league table.
Sadly, this is not at all true if my beloved Financial Times is an authority in this matter. HEC Paris remains the best business school in France and is surprisingly, the best business school in Europe. Essec ranks a 'lowly' 11th in the European league table.
Anyway, the culture of the school can be charitably described as totally immoral. Apparently, popular orientation games played by freshers include going the full monty in the brisk autumn chill, having a girl demonstrate sexual positions on a guy and awarding points based on creativity, strip-dances at school organised parties on school premises as well as free FHMs every month. Apparently, FHM is one of the big sponsors of many Essec parties.
Ironically, it is an ostensibly Catholic school and it was founded by the Jesuits and remains part of the Catholic network of universities. There is even a full-time chaplain at the school chapel. The school chapel is bizarrely located right across the school pub, the scene of many decadent activities that take place every Thursday evening.
Of course, I'd love to say that the students play hard and work hard. Many of them do; even more don't. Their idea of preparing for lessons is coming into class to engage in energetic bouts of verbal jousting with the professors. I still remember one memorable management stratégique class where a disarmingly outspoken student spent the entire 3 hours challenging the beleagured professor on his views pertaining to the importance which an organisational hierarchy plays in a company's strategic vision. I was simply gobsmacked; I was riveted; I learnt quite a bit.
Students at Essec mostly come from upper middle-class backgrounds. Many of them have secondary homes in other parts of France. The girls dress very stylishly: I once overhead a conversation between two girls discussing about the price of a 800 euro coat which one has bought and how she feels like getting a new one because she didn't think it was good enough.
In part due to the privileged backgrounds of many students, the school is a bastion of right-wing conservatism. Apparently, up to 80% of the school population supported Sarkozy in the presidential elections. When the train strikes were at the apogee in October, many students seriously considered organising a counter-strike against "lazy", "avaricious" and "greedy" SNCF and RATP workers. I don't blame them, though: I was seriously affected by the transport strike.
When the first strike was called on the infamous "jeudi noir" in October, I thought I was being clever by leaving for Britanny on Wednesday. When I came back to Paris on Sunday, the suburban lines were still not running and I was left in a bit of a tight spot. Fortunately, I have a Mexican pal who stays in Paris (with the view of the Eiffel Tower to boot from his bedroom!) and I emerged from a potentially sticky wicket unscathed.
When the second strike was called in November, it hit me real hard. The first day of the strike coincided with my departure for Italy. Fortunately, 10% of the RER trains (the suburban trains) were still running and I caught the 4.50 AM train to Paris. When I reached Paris, I was obliged to walk for half an hour (from the Gare Saint-Lazare to Porte Maillot) just to reach the coach terminal that would allow me to get to Beauvais Airport. It seems that I am destined to experience the headaches faced by a commuter who is totally reliant upon public transport.
When I was in Paris, I read the papers daily. At Essec, we were given La Croix, Les Echos, La Tribune as well as Le Figaro. I like La Croix for its Catholic-humanist leanings as well as its human interest stories. Les Echos proved its value by getting me acquainted with financial vocabulary in French. But what I really want is Le Monde, the quintessential Parisian newspaper that has been cemented in popular imagination. Alas, Le Monde, being a left-wing newspaper, is about as welcome in our school as someone who talks incessantly at a dinner reception.
When I was in France, I travelled quite a bit. Actually, I skipped town quite often. I went to Britanny, did the French Riveria, snooped for contraband goods at the neighbouring Italian seaside town of Ventimiglia, acknowledged St Joan of Arc in Rouen and spent Christmas at Lille. I also went to Brussels, Italy (Milan, Lake Como, Venice, Bologna, Florence, Pisa), the Netherlands (Rotterdam & Amsterdam) as well as Sweden (Stockholm).
I must say that I like Italy a lot. The people are warm and helpful. Most of them speak some English. When English failed, French was also rather useful as there were three occasions when I had to use French to get myself understood. And if both fails, I relied on my Italian-French phrasebook!
I can write on and on, but I will simply run the risk of becoming incoherent and unreadable. So my question is: have anyone here been overseas on a student exchange? What were your experiences like?
Deborah
Re: Doing an Exchange
Loic wrote:
I can write on and on, but I will simply run the risk of becoming incoherent and unreadable.
As far as I'm concerned, you may write on and on -- it's very interesting.
Uriel
Quote:
Ironically, it is an ostensibly Catholic school and it was founded by the Jesuits and remains part of the Catholic network of universities. There is even a full-time chaplain at the school chapel. The school chapel is bizarrely located right across the school pub, the scene of many decadent activities that take place every Thursday evening.
Ha! My first university was a Jesuit school, and it was there that I learned to drink until passed out in the bushes, smoke weed, make an emergency bong out of a Coke can, and I won't even go into the amateur sex ed. It's also where I saw my first naked human pyramid, and naked volleyball games. And we didn't just have a full-time chaplain -- we had a whole frickin' order of monks. We called them "professors".
Basically, what I learned about Catholicism in those two years was that Catholics like to party, and they have confession, so anything goes....there's nothing a few Hail Mary's can't absolve.
Loic
I still remember the famous debate we had over whether France was a Northern or Southern European country with Fabian saying that France is mosty of the Latin temperament notwithstanding the geographic location while others such as Uriel and Benjamin observing that the ambience of the south is different from that of the north.
I kept this debate in mind as I went to the south. I took the TGV to Nice, I remember, at 11 AM on a Thursday morning (Thursday morning as it was the day I skipped Financial Engineering and Geopolitics haha). I arrived at 5 PM when it was already dark. En route, I struck up conversation with an elderly Algerian woman who proudly told me that Zinedine Zidane was from her tribe. Well, good for her! She was pleasant to speak to nonetheless.
Architectually speaking, the French Riveria is rather similar to colonial Singapore. I love the sight of palm trees swaying gently in the sea breeze. It evokes not so distant memories of family holidays by a beach.
In my opinion, Nice is overrated. The Promenade des Anglais might snake spectacularly for a mile or two, but the beach hugging it is a disappointing morass of black stones. The local mayors are notoriously corrupted with the Medecin family ruling the city like a personal fiefdom for extended periods of time. Overall, I do like Nice though, if not for the novelty it offered.
Cagnes-de-Mer is worth a visit for any casual traveller to Nice as it is just a few train stops away and it is for all intents and purposes considered to be a Nicois suburb. Cagnes-de-Mer is like one of those pretty seaside towns dotting the French Riveria with a beach promenade (Promenade de la Mer) and a pleasure port (port de plaisance). For the walker, there is always the possibility of hiking up a hill to visit a chateau situated on the summit.
Cannes is disappointing: there was such a mismatch of expectations that I didn't really know what to say when I arrived. It is pretty and attractive in its own right, but I expected it to be like Las Vegas. For me at least, the attraction has got to be the area outside the international film festival venue where hand imprints of various stars can be found on the ground. I found Jean-Paul Belmondo's and my hand is apparently the exact same size as his.
Monaco is well, Monaco. I couldn't have entered the casino as I was scuffily dressed (would they have allowed someone wearing a hoodie inside?). Overall, it is a really compact principality that encourages visitors to walk. Apparently, one of the biggest attractions in the principality is the oceanagraphy musesum, but I am not really too interested in marine life so I gave it a skip. I did hiked all the way to the Stade Louis II though, home to AS Monaco. The Prince's palace is also worth a look. Situated atop the rock, it offers a stunning panoramic view of the congested enclave.
I also went to Beaulieu-sur-Mer and Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat. I was actually reading in the other thread about how Elaine met a gentleman who was allegedly from Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat and I must strongly encourage her to take up on his offer. Both communes are principally populated by wealthy inhabitants whose dogs appear to be much better dressed than the Parisians I see living in the suburbs. Since it is so close to the Italian border, Italian is often heard in the chic cafes as well.
But of all my favourite towns on the French Riveria, Menton has to be at the top of my list. Its climate is the warmest in metropolitan France (when I was there, the thermometer outside a chemist's read 16 degrees when it was probably less than 10 in Paris). Temperatures hardly go below zero, or so I was led to understand. There is an air of prosperity in the town. The colours are striking and vibrant. The beachside promenade (Promenade du Soleil) ends with the Jean Cocteau museum. Perfect for a summer getaway, I must say.
Honestly, I was a little reluctant to quit the south for Paris. I had to though and grudgingly took the 9 PM sleeper for Paris. It was my first time taking a sleeper and possibly the last. An infernal bloke in the same compartment snored like there was no tomorrow from start to end. The woman beneath him sometimes joined him and oh my, what a spectacular concert it was. Needless to say, I hardly slept a wink.
PS: I realised that I left my first question (is France Northern or Southern European?) unanswered. Well, I must throw in my lot with Benjamin's camp. Not only is the atmosphere different, even the girls look a little different. I drolly remarked to my companion that many girls in Nice could actually pass off as Italians.
The French Riveria also does it slightly differently as far as la bise is concerned. Studying in the Parisian region, I got used to doing it twice, beginning with the right cheek. Apparently, they start off with the left in the south. How perplexing.
Walker
Uriel wrote:
Quote:
Ironically, it is an ostensibly Catholic school and it was founded by the Jesuits and remains part of the Catholic network of universities. There is even a full-time chaplain at the school chapel. The school chapel is bizarrely located right across the school pub, the scene of many decadent activities that take place every Thursday evening.
Ha! My first university was a Jesuit school, and it was there that I learned to drink until passed out in the bushes, smoke weed, make an emergency bong out of a Coke can, and I won't even go into the amateur sex ed. It's also where I saw my first naked human pyramid, and naked volleyball games. And we didn't just have a full-time chaplain -- we had a whole frickin' order of monks. We called them "professors".
Basically, what I learned about Catholicism in those two years was that Catholics like to party, and they have confession, so anything goes....there's nothing a few Hail Mary's can't absolve.
Mein Gott! I grow more suspicious of Catholicism by the day.
KSa
Walker wrote:
Mein Gott! I grow more suspicious of Catholicism by the day.
Supposing what Uriel said was true, I would draw conclusions about that specific school rather than Catholicism as a whole.
Another thing is that such rumours are being spread quite regularly without too visible efforts from the Church's side to do something about it.
Walker
KSa wrote:
Walker wrote:
Mein Gott! I grow more suspicious of Catholicism by the day.
Supposing what Uriel said was true, I would draw conclusions about that specific school rather than Catholicism as a whole.
Another thing is that such rumours are being spread quite regularly without too visible efforts from the Church's side to do something about it.
I didn't necessarily mean Catholicism as such. Sorry. There just seems to be so much hypocrisy. Well, that's my impression.
KSa
Walker wrote:
There just seems to be so much hypocrisy.
Yes, that's what I hate as well. I once had a friend who was a monk and said that according to his rough estimations some 30% of priests he knows don't believe in God. "Who do they remain priests then?" - I asked. "Well, because that's their job (sic!) and they are too old to start life over again".- he said.
I think that he exagerrated with the numbers but still I cannot resist the feeling that there are many priests who keep living in this hypocrisy for years. It's possible they are in charge of running such school like that one Uriel has mentioned. This is something beyond my imagination though.
Benjamin [inactive]
I have to say that I find it very difficult to understand how anyone can genuinely believe in all of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. I know that most of my 'Catholic' friends don't — when I ask them if they really believe in doctrines such as transubstantiation, original sin, the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, apostolic succession and papal infallibility, their answer is usually something like: 'well... not really, I'm not devout'.
'Catholic' is very much an identity label in this country — if people claim to be a Catholic here, it usually refers primarily to their family background and to a lesser extent religious practice, rather than actual theological beliefs.
KSa
Benjamin wrote:
I have to say that I find it very difficult to understand how anyone can genuinely believe in all of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. I know that most of my 'Catholic' friends don't — when I ask them if they really believe in doctrines such as transubstantiation, original sin, the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, apostolic succession and papal infallibility, their answer is usually something like: 'well... not really, I'm not devout'.
'Catholic' is very much an identity label in this country — if people claim to be a Catholic here, it usually refers primarily to their family background and to a lesser extent religious practice, rather than actual theological beliefs.
I know that it may sound blasphemous but I don't care too much about "original sin", "the immaculate conception" or "papal infallibility" which I find totally irrelevant for being a good Catholic. For me "to be a Catholic" means to believe in God and His Son Jesus, who also had divine nature, to believe in eternal life. To be good-natured, altruistic, compassionate. To help other people. Not to be hypocritic. To believe in sanctity of life. In family, which is a relationship between a man and a woman. To be faithful. To be able to forgive. To respect people. Et cetera.
I know that you'll say I'm far from being a Catholic, more, I'm hardly a Christian . I still believe in the original meaning of the word "catholic" which means (according to dictionary) "including or concerning all humankind; universal". I would like that one day all Christians are re-united under the sign of Cross.
Uriel
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Apparently, one of the biggest attractions in the principality is the oceanagraphy musesum, but I am not really too interested in marine life so I gave it a skip.
Aw, dude! I would have been all over that! I loved my marine biology class in college, and going to the Monterrey Bay Aquarium in California is still one of the highlights of my life!
I bet the Jean Cocteau museum was pretty cool, too. But you can get museumed-out in a hurry in Europe, so I'll cut you some slack.
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I didn't necessarily mean Catholicism as such. Sorry. There just seems to be so much hypocrisy. Well, that's my impression.
Well, these were 18-year-old wealthy Irish catholics from San Francisco and San Jose -- probably being young and Californian trumped any doctrine!
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'Catholic' is very much an identity label in this country — if people claim to be a Catholic here, it usually refers primarily to their family background and to a lesser extent religious practice, rather than actual theological beliefs.
You know, I never never hung out with the more religious types or went into the very pretty Santa Clara Mission (you know -- lightning), and I only took one theology class that was actually taught by a Jesuit brother, so he's the only one I really ever talked to in depth (or such as you could in a one-hour class). He had not always been a catholic. In fact, he had spent his youth being a communist, very much opposed to the church in all its forms, and then had gradually changed his mind, and then finally made the ultimate choice of joining the order. So they can be like anyone else -- outlooks and attitudes change over the course of one's life, and you just find what works for you. I have met self-described catholics who run the entire spectrum, from very, very devout to completely lapsed. (Same with Mormons, and probably every other religion.) Religion, now that it's not enforced with stake-burnings and iron maidens, just tends to be what you make of it, as Ksa says -- you get to define what's important to you.
Loic
There is nothing suspect about Catholicism. Believers as a whole tend to be less strict in the observance of their faith than, say, evangelical Christians. It is very fluid and readily adaptable: many Chinese Catholics continue to venerate their ancestors. Such a practice is severely frowned upon by other Christian denominations.
Say Walker, is it true that Jonkoping is the "Jerusalem of Sweden"? When I was in Stockholm, I visited the open-air museum at Skansen and passed by a church inside that was somehow packed to the capacity. It appears that quite a handful of Swedes are still somehow religious.
When I attended mass in Rotterdam, most of the congregation were either the ancient or the very young. I was surprised to see 'altar-girls' celebrating mass alongside the priest, though. In Singapore, only altar boys serve such a role. Still, it was an interesting experience: Dutch is not really the sort of liturgial language that inspires one to be close to God. I had this impression that the priest was admonishing me for unrepented sins from the start to the finish.
Masses in Paris actually have more people although more than half of them are probably tourists, especially Spanish-speaking ones.
Italy seems to be the only country where pretty girls attend mass - or that is somehow my observation.
There is a joke among many Catholics here that the only reason why boys go to church is to hold hands with girls. Now, that reeks of desperation!
Uriel: Well yes, the oceanography museum would appeal to marine biology students like you! I was more interested in gawking, I'm afraid.
KSa
Loic wrote:
Italy seems to be the only country where pretty girls attend mass - or that is somehow my observation.
Because you haven't been to Poland
And seriously, if you wanted to attend the mass in Poland I think what would strike you the most are:
a. number of people attending mass regularly; although recent polls say that only around 40% of the population attend the mass each Sunday, still you have to arrive to church at least 10-15 minutes before to find a spare seat or a pew; normally on Sunday even aisles are full of people
b. number of children, teenagers and students attending mass
However, this is going to be changed because it's still the effect of the JPII pontificate. Now the number of candidates for priests as well as regular churchgoers is dropping. At the same time the number of people regularly receiving the Holy Communion is steadily increasing, which some people interpret as the arising of "new generation of Catholics", which is maybe smaller in number but of better quality.
Uriel
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There is a joke among many Catholics here that the only reason why boys go to church is to hold hands with girls. Now, that reeks of desperation!
It's not just the catholics. Many protestant mothers will also tell admonish their sons to got to church and find themselves a good girl. (Or as one black comedian put it -- I forget which one -- "Now my mama wants me to go down and work the church!")
Walker
Loic wrote:
Say Walker, is it true that Jonkoping is the "Jerusalem of Sweden"?
It's "Jerusalem of Småland" (Småland is the province). The free church is (or was) big there. But it's not something you generally call Jönköping. I can't recall having ever heard anyone say Smålands Jerusalem.
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When I was in Stockholm, I visited the open-air museum at Skansen and passed by a church inside that was somehow packed to the capacity. It appears that quite a handful of Swedes are still somehow religious.
I guess so. I wouldn't know, really. People here tend to keep their religious beliefs pretty much to themselves. I'm actually not very comfortable with people mentioning God and stuff. I wish they'd keep it to themselves.
fab
Hello Loic !
So, your exchange in Europe did finish? It seems you rightely used your time for travelling.
It is actually sad in my opinion that your semester was the fall and winter one. I actually hate fall season because of the wet, cold and short days... Spring in Paris is far ahead the best time to be in Paris - the days are much longer and the people go out, stay longer in cafés, starts to smile and the women begin to wear lighter clothes...
these days it seemed to be like a sort of begining of spring, it was almost 18°C this week-end in Paris, people are walking outside, without purpose...
To answer your question about the feelings of my exchange I could write a whole book.
I had shoosen to go 8 months in Montréal, in year 2000-2001. It was a really interesting experience to be in another continent. For a french person Montréal is a strange place because it is at once very similar and completly different - there I took conscience to be both of francophone culture as weel are Quebecers and also I discovered my "Europeanness".
For resuming we could say that Québéc is a 100% north American city populated by people who take a lot of pride (much more than ourselves) in their french roots. As the rest of Canada, Québec has developped itself in a widely predominantly Anglophone culture, under the sovernety of the British crown - Only this is quite an unusual situation. Architecturally speaking Montréal has a very "British" feel, with a lot of victorian architecture, typically red-brick lined houses, etc. The way of life, foods, cars, type of urban organisation, is typically north American. Said that Québecers also show also a wide range of characters that doesn't seem to fit completly with North America.
When I was there I of course experienced what winter really means... My quebecers friends were explaining to us Europeans that it was a warm winter!! 4 months with no temperatures above 0 (around -10°C everyday) and a lower of -28°C in the daytime! but for a Quebecer it was just warm!
But winter is actually very nice season because it is generally dry, with blue skies... and lots of snow, even in downtowns. I lived in Outremont, close to the "mont royal" wich is a big "natural" park in the very center of the town, where it is possible to ski or ice-skating
I could say a lot of other of my impressions when there. concernin the way the shool worked it was quite a different world also. Concerning human relations I feel Quebecer have a quite north American attitude compared to us, it means that they seem very warmfull at first and very smiling, but when you're going to them closer they seem to keep much more their distances. The first days, for greeting my new shools friends, I was trying to kiss a girl as I would do in France, the girl seemd so scared as I was doing a provoquative almost "sexual" behaviour. I think we work quite a lot reversely here.
fab
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Anyway, the culture of the school can be charitably described as totally immoral. Apparently, popular orientation games played by freshers include going the full monty in the brisk autumn chill, having a girl demonstrate sexual positions on a guy and awarding points based on creativity, strip-dances at school organised parties on school premises as well as free FHMs every month. Apparently, FHM is one of the big sponsors of many Essec parties.
I think this is part of most of "grandes écoles" traditions. In "facs" (public universities) this is I think different on some points. (depending which field)
The "bizutages" and diverses "parties" are famous to be "harder" of more sexually-oriented in grandes écoles, as well as in medecine fields.
paradoxally it is in these schools that most people are of traditional catholic backgrounds...
I did my studies in architecture field, I must say that it was a completly boheme life, with people smoking marijuana during the classes, a sort of bar with all alcohols possible in each "studio"(the places where we had the practices). But in the same time we worked very much, sometimes sleeping inside the studios, working on a draw or a project in a semi-concient state, having nude models lessons in the beaux-arts building; etc... alot of memories!
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I still remember the famous debate we had over whether France was a Northern or Southern European country with Fabian saying that France is mosty of the Latin temperament notwithstanding the geographic location while others such as Uriel and Benjamin observing that the ambience of the south is different from that of the north.
Actually I always too supported the idea that the south has a different ambiance than the north (well that an obvious thing). I also supported the idea that from my point of view northern France is somehow neither southern or northern European, or somehow inbetween or has elements of both sides. As a non-European, did you feel Paris for exemple to be more similar in feel like Netherlands or Sweden than with the south?
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Architectually speaking, the French Riveria is rather similar to colonial Singapore.
It is an interesting opinion! I would never expected that. I'm going to look for some pictures of Singapour!
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I love the sight of palm trees swaying gently in the sea breeze. It evokes not so distant memories of family holidays by a beach.
Even if the mediterranean temperatures in winter are nothing like those in Singapour? I tend to agree with you that palm trees have somthing that bring also old sweet memories/
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In my opinion, Nice is overrated. The Promenade des Anglais might snake spectacularly for a mile or two, but the beach hugging it is a disappointing morass of black stones.
I already have noticed that a lot of foreign people expect Nice to be firslty a beach, or a place to bath. I actually never would like to bath there. To me the promenade des Anglais is probably the least interesting place to go in Nice. If it is for going to Beaches, one has better to go in other city, or even region (the beaches of the Atlantic are much more bigger, wilder, natural... and with sand!)
One should go to Nice for its old town, its colors, its warm weather, the colline du Chateau, Matisse or modern art museum, and as a starting point to discover the region around.
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Cagnes-de-Mer is worth a visit for any casual traveller to Nice as it is just a few train stops away and it is for all intents and purposes considered to be a Nicois suburb. Cagnes-de-Mer is like one of those pretty seaside towns dotting the French Riveria with a beach promenade (Promenade de la Mer) and a pleasure port (port de plaisance). For the walker, there is always the possibility of hiking up a hill to visit a chateau situated on the summit.
Did you visited Saint Paul de Vence? It is 100 times better than Cagnes-sur-Mer... which is now unfortunally crowded by a ugly informal suburb.
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Cannes is disappointing: there was such a mismatch of expectations that I didn't really know what to say when I arrived. It is pretty and attractive in its own right, but I expected it to be like Las Vegas.
really? I find that funny that you could expect somthing like Las vegas in Cannes!
Actually Cannes is famous for its film festival but stills a small provincial city, especially quiet during winter time. In summer it is very different as it is transformed in a playground for both famous people and average class tourist
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I also went to Beaulieu-sur-Mer and Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat. I was actually reading in the other thread about how Elaine met a gentleman who was allegedly from Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat and I must strongly encourage her to take up on his offer. Both communes are principally populated by wealthy inhabitants whose dogs appear to be much better dressed than the Parisians I see living in the suburbs. Since it is so close to the Italian border, Italian is often heard in the chic cafes as well.
Have you been to Villefranche too? I actually prefer it far ahead over Saint-Jean since it is much more (at least in its look) a "normal village".
Did you visited Eze (little village just above in the hills that surrounds beaulieu) - a very tipical little medieval village with a incredible view and an interesting gardens up of it.
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But of all my favourite towns on the French Riveria, Menton has to be at the top of my list. Its climate is the warmest in metropolitan France (when I was there, the thermometer outside a chemist's read 16 degrees when it was probably less than 10 in Paris). Temperatures hardly go below zero, or so I was led to understand. There is an air of prosperity in the town. The colours are striking and vibrant. The beachside promenade (Promenade du Soleil) ends with the Jean Cocteau museum. Perfect for a summer getaway, I must say.
I tend to agree with you that Menton is very beautiful. Unfortunally it is not at all a city for young people. It is the french city with the highest rate of retired, without much activities for younger people.
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Honestly, I was a little reluctant to quit the south for Paris.
I, also am generally reluctant to leave the south when I go there. Fortunally I love the cultural and professional life that we have in Paris that is uncomparable with what it is can be in the Cote d'Azur.
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I realised that I left my first question (is France Northern or Southern European?) unanswered. Well, I must throw in my lot with Benjamin's camp. Not only is the atmosphere different, even the girls look a little different. I drolly remarked to my companion that many girls in Nice could actually pass off as Italians.
Well, it is also interesting to nitice that the "Riviera" doesn't represent the whole of southern France not more than Paris could resume northern France.
The region of Nice has an original history, being attached to France quite recently and having been a meeting place of the northern European aristocracy in the 19th/begining of 20th centuries, and later a popular summertime international resort.
Even Marseille, that is in the same region than Nice is very different. in its "look", its ambiance and its "sociology". Montpellier is also a different story, Toulouse also, while bordeaux seems more like a south western Paris...
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The French Riveria also does it slightly differently as far as la bise is concerned. Studying in the Parisian region, I got used to doing it twice, beginning with the right cheek. Apparently, they start off with the left in the south. How perplexing.
don't worry, the "bise" question is a complicated problem as soon we meet persons from another region! It is not actually only a north/south divide, but also east/west, and inside relatively close places it can also change![/quote]
Uriel
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Cannes is disappointing: there was such a mismatch of expectations that I didn't really know what to say when I arrived. It is pretty and attractive in its own right, but I expected it to be like Las Vegas.
You know, I just went to Idaho and had to change planes in Las Vegas on both the way up and the way back, and I have to say that I expected Las Vegas to be more like Las Vegas, and was completely disappointed! Especially since the runway is right next to the strip, and you can look out the plane window and see Mandalay Bay, the Luxor, the MGM Grand, and all the other big casinos right there in spitting distance. Not terribly impressive in daylight (on the way up), so I was hoping for more when we returned after dark. They were lit up and sparkly, but nothing special. I mean, I've seen the Ginza at night. Las Vegas can't hold a candle to those pyrotechnics!
Las Vegas is also just a small desert city like any other from the air -- not exciting at all. Phoenix was more impressive from the air -- especially because it just went on and on and on, from horizon to horizon, flowing around whole mountains that were just like islands in a sea of streets. You couldn't pay me any money to live in Phoenix -- it was like a desert version of LA. (No offense, Elaine and Julian.)
Loic
fab wrote:
The first days, for greeting my new shools friends, I was trying to kiss a girl as I would do in France, the girl seemd so scared as I was doing a provoquative almost "sexual" behaviour.
So how are greeting conventions supposed to be like in Quebec? A a good old-fashioned handshake?
fab wrote:
I think this is part of most of "grandes écoles" traditions. In "facs" (public universities) this is I think different on some points. (depending which field)
The "bizutages" and diverses "parties" are famous to be "harder" of more sexually-oriented in grandes écoles, as well as in medecine fields.
paradoxally it is in these schools that most people are of traditional catholic backgrounds...
Yes, Essec's bizutages are crazy. Theirs is a lusty tradition in which the nerdish looking, innocent guys usually turn out to be the most perverted of all (Not speaking about myself, of course).
fab wrote:
As a non-European, did you feel Paris for exemple to be more similar in feel like Netherlands or Sweden than with the south?
I must say, no. The Netherlands and Sweden are too different. Red-bricked architecture predominates in the former and buildings with green roofs seem to be the norm in Stockholm. Paris lends itself very well to black-and-white photos as the colours are rather staid and monotoneous.
When I was in Lille, I did feel as if I was in the Netherlands though. But language plays a very important role, I feel. When I went to Brussels, I hardly felt as if I were in a foreign country. The first shop I entered was playing Patrick Fiori's "Quatre mots sur un Piano" on the radio, the same song that seemed to be all the rage in France back then.
fab wrote:
I tend to agree with you that palm trees have somthing that bring also old sweet memories.
Palm trees swaying gently in the breeze brings back memories of my idyllic childhood spent in the countryside.
fab wrote:
I already have noticed that a lot of foreign people expect Nice to be firslty a beach, or a place to bath.
I did not really have a pre-conceived notion of Nice before going there. However, many Parisians I asked about Nice kept bringing up the "Promenade des Anglais" et the Hotel Negresco as one of the major attractions. I also watched "Brice de Nice" before heading south and was actually expecting to practise my nascent 'casser' skills on a native. Alas, I didn't have much of an opportunity, really. The Nicois were too nice to be cassé.
fab wrote:
Did you visited Saint Paul de Vence? It is 100 times better than Cagnes-sur-Mer... which is now unfortunally crowded by a ugly informal suburb.
No. Where is it? I also didn't go to Villefranche although I passed it by on the TER on the way to Menton and Vintimiglia. Is it gorgeous?
fab wrote:
Fortunally I love the cultural and professional life that we have in Paris that is uncomparable with what it is can be in the Cote d'Azur.
Not to mention being at the nexus of transport links. When I was travelling from Lille to Lorient in Britanny, it was ridiculous how my train had to make a detour via Paris in order to get to my destination.
Overall, I did like Paris a lot. Many stereotypes were exaggerated though, such as how chic the Parisian dress sense is. True, it is definitely better than many other European cities such as Rotterdam, but I think Milan beats Paris hands down. I never saw anyone wearing trainers or Converse shoes in Milan; every male wore leather shoes. In contrast, it seems to be rather common in Paris for a bloke to wear a blazer over a t-shirt with jeans and Converse shoes, or at least that was how it is before the temperatures hit sub 10.
I think that the most chic Parisians all live in the XVIe arrondissement. I have a friend who has a flat there and all his neighbours seemed to be immaculately dressed.
Loic
Uriel: And did you have a sporting flutter at one of the glitzy casinos?
Tiffany
Come to Miami Fab - you are considered a tourist if you don't kiss friends, family and acquaintances on the cheek. This was not an exchange at all, but my sister came up to visit me at the university I went to in Massachusetts. The first day she was there, I introduced her to some school friends. She kissed each one twice on the cheek as I introduced them. This is customary in Miami, but they were kinda freaked out.
Uriel
Loic wrote:
Uriel: And did you have a sporting flutter at one of the glitzy casinos?
No, I never left the airport -- no time. However, there were slot machines in the airport, and my companion tried her luck at them. Turned out her luck wasn't that great. Personally, I've never been a big gambler, so I don't get that excited about it.
Loic
I suppose this is why anyone who says that Las Vegas is a sleazier, greasier, more artificial, more expensive part of the USA doesn't know what they're taking about.....or is talking about Las Vegas.
I have friends who drove to Las Vegas by car from Los Angeles (they study at UCLA). According to them, despite the city's shallow image, there is some remarkably and deeply soul-stirring art to be found in the casinos and brothels in the city - the art of gawking at the obscene amount of money exchanging hands, that is. And if one is a culture vulture searching for something to stimulate his senses and soothe his soul, I was told that Las Vegas is unsurprisingly at the nexus of quite a few motorways, and a drive off to any destination will take one somewhere with more cultural depth than Las Vegas.
This is why I really want to visit Las Vegas and hope that my visit coincides with a Texas Hold'em poker tournament. I have started learning how to play it recently and I must say that it is far more interesting than bridge.
Deborah
I don't care for gambling and I couldn't wait to leave Las Vegas. It was a mere 4-hour drive to the Grand Canyon from there.
Uriel
Prostitution is actually illegal inside the city limits of Las Vegas and Reno, although it is legal in much of Nevada, and I know it happens all the time regardless.
. I still believe in the original meaning of the word "catholic" which means (according to dictionary) "including or concerning all humankind; universal". I would like that one day all Christians are re-united under the sign of Cross.
