Unfortunately, we don't have British programmes in Hungary...we do have some, but either dubbed or not comedy.
Everything is dubbed into German in Germany. Besides, I don't have TV here at all...
Walker
Liz wrote:
Unfortunately, we don't have British programmes in Hungary...we do have some, but either dubbed or not comedy.
Everything is dubbed into German in Germany. Besides, I don't have TV here at all...
Dear God... I know that Germany deals with that abomination they call dubbing, but having to suffer the same ordeal in Hungary, your native land... And your dorm doesn't have a TV? How do you get by? I don't watch much TV now but when I lived in a dorm we used to watch TV every night.
Liz
Walker wrote:
Liz wrote:
Unfortunately, we don't have British programmes in Hungary...we do have some, but either dubbed or not comedy.
Everything is dubbed into German in Germany. Besides, I don't have TV here at all...
Dear God... I know that Germany deals with that abomination they call dubbing, but having to suffer the same ordeal in Hungary, your native land... And your dorm doesn't have a TV? How do you get by? I don't watch much TV now but when I lived in a dorm we used to watch TV every night.
Yes, German dubbing is aaaawful...My all-time favourite bit: Ich weiß, er war ein famous songwriter. LOL. No comment. Does anyone call it dubbing?
Hungarian dubbing is good...it's *Hungarian* dubbing, NOT Hunglish dubbing.
Funnily enough, my dorm in Hungary has a TV on each floor...this sh*** slum dorm doesn't have any, on a bring-your-own-stuff basis. I should be chuffed with having a toilet at least...for girls and boys only...*very* exclusive.
Walker
Liz wrote:
Yes, German dubbing is aaaawful...My all-time favourite bit: Ich weiß, er war ein famous songwriter. LOL. No comment. Does anyone call it dubbing?
I've been exposed to German dubbing myself. I've been having these weird twitches in the left side of my face ever since.
Liz wrote:
Hungarian dubbing is good...it's *Hungarian* dubbing, NOT Hunglish dubbing.
I hate to break it to you, but you've been brainwashed. I don't blame you, though; you grew up with it. See, for me it's not just about what they're saying -- it's also about how they speak. You can tell if an actor is dubbed because even if the actor's lips and the voice in question are somewhat in sync, his or her voice will sound so unnatural.
Liz wrote:
Funnily enough, my dorm in Hungary has a TV on each floor...this sh*** slum dorm doesn't have any, on a bring-your-own-stuff basis. I should be chuffed with having a toilet at least...for girls and boys only...*very* exclusive.
You should've come here then!
PS. Sorry for keeping this conversation up here on the Geography Forum.
Liz
Walker wrote:
Liz wrote:
Hungarian dubbing is good...it's *Hungarian* dubbing, NOT Hunglish dubbing.
I hate to break it to you, but you've been brainwashed. I don't blame you, though; you grew up with it. See, for me it's not just about what they're saying -- it's also about how they speak. You can tell if an actor is dubbed because even if the actor's lips and the voice in question are somewhat in sync, his or her voice will sound so unnatural.
I assure you that I haven't been brainwashed. Don't get me wrong - I'm fully aware of the fact that dubbing is nowhere near as good as the original voice. However, I've seen films dubbed into German, English, French and Russian. Compared to most of them, Hungarian lip sync was nigh on perfect in the majority of cases. What's more, the voices are usually *very* similar to the original.
I'm not being jingoistic here nor do I want to generalise. That's just *my* personal experience.
Benjamin [inactive]
In Poland, instead of dubbing programmes, they have one person speaking a translation on top, but you can still here the original voice quietly underneath. When I went to stay with this Polish girl in Poland earlier this year, for some reason we ended up watching a British programme about buying and selling houses — there was a male Polish voice speaking over the top, translating everything which was said, but I was still able to listen to the English voices of the actual people.
Liz
Benjamin wrote:
In Poland, instead of dubbing programmes, they have one person speaking a translation on top, but you can still here the original voice quietly underneath. When I went to stay with this Polish girl in Poland earlier this year, for some reason we ended up watching a British programme about buying and selling houses — there was a male Polish voice speaking over the top, translating everything which was said, but I was still able to listen to the English voices of the actual people.
The same thing happens to films dubbed into Russian. I used to watch Helène et les garcons on Russian TV and I could hear the original text almost entirely. What's more, a man was murmuring the text in an awfully monotonous voice. Can you imagine dialogues, especially that of young women, recited by one single person - a middle-aged man?
Probably the most shocking experience for me was watching an American catastrophy film dubbed into Russian! A bridge was falling down with a man who wanted to cross it. Another man, probably a friend of that poor bloke, kept on shouting "Noooooo!!!!!!" in the original version (you could hear it clearly) whilst an apathic monotonous Russian voice said: "Net".
fab
" I used to watch Helène et les garcons... "
poor yourself...
Liz
fab wrote:
" I used to watch Helène et les garcons... "
poor yourself...
LOL! LOL! LOL! You're right! I was young and foolish...
You must have watched it, too...otherwise you wouldn't speak with authority. LOL
Deborah
Liz wrote:
Probably the most shocking experience for me was watching an American catastrophy film dubbed into Russian! A bridge was falling down with a man who wanted to cross it. Another man, probably a friend of that poor bloke, kept on shouting "Noooooo!!!!!!" in the original version (you could hear it clearly) whilst an apathic monotonous Russian voice said: "Net".
I watched a few TV shows when I was in Russia that were done that way. It is strange. The first time I saw that sort of voiceover was when they showed a TV version of "The Tale of Genji" on public TV in the US. I think that was in the early '60s. Maybe the deadpan reading is supposed to give the feeling of reading subtitles. I think emotionless voiceovers are better than the ones where the speaker attempts to inject some emotion into it and does a bad job. I've seen a lot of that on news programs.
Walker
Liz wrote:
I assure you that I haven't been brainwashed. Don't get me wrong - I'm fully aware of the fact that dubbing is nowhere near as good as the original voice. However, I've seen films dubbed into German, English, French and Russian. Compared to most of them, Hungarian lip sync was nigh on perfect in the majority of cases. What's more, the voices are usually *very* similar to the original.
I'm not being jingoistic here nor do I want to generalise. That's just *my* personal experience.
Sure, I can appreciate that there are differences in the quality of dubbing. But I still think it's wicked and wrong. Even if the audience is used to dubbing and thinks that there is nothing strange about it, it is still deprived of hearing the original language. We Scandinavian folks are known for being relatively good at English. How do you reckon that is?
Loic
Quote:
Sure, I can appreciate that there are differences in the quality of dubbing. But I still think it's wicked and wrong. Even if the audience is used to dubbing and thinks that there is nothing strange about it, it is still deprived of hearing the original language. We Scandinavian folks are known for being relatively good at English. How do you reckon that is?
At the risk of being presumptuous, can I suggest that your hostility towards dubbing is especially prevalent if it were an English language programme? Would you be equally adverse to dubbings if the programme in question is not in English and let's say you are suffering from near-sightedness and have misplaced your reading glasses?
Personally, I think dubbing has a role to play as far as maintaining the cultural integrity of a society is concerned. Mandarin dubbing is often very good. I once watched Friends in Mandarin and seeing Joey speaking in flawless Mandarin with that hint of a Shanghainese lilt is always a laugh.
Many telenovelas from Latin America here are frequently dubbed into Malay and I must say that they are very well done. Personally, I'd prefer those telenovelas to be in the original language for it'd otherwise have given me the feeling of experiencing the pleasures of foreign travel without actually having to go overseas. But we are all basically fascinated with languages here and not everyone shares our fascination with foreign tongues. There are people who are actually more interested in watching the plot unravel without having to be distracted by subtitles.
In Singapore, every film is subtitled in Chinese and sometimes, in Chinese and Malay. When I was watching Spiderman 3, it was bloody irritating to have the subtitles covering almost half the screen. Spiderman was blocked by the Chinese subtitles while the Green Goblin was partially obscured by the Malay subtitles.
How thrilling.
And when it's a non English language film, the situation takes a more depressing turn. You'd have up to three different set of subtitles for films like the most recent French language film released here Hors Prix - English, Chinese and Malay.
One of the benefits of subtitling, I must say, lies in its unconscious ability in promoting literacy. As a result, I am much better in reading than speaking in Malay, thanks to the tireless subtitling efforts of the producers.
Liz
Almost all TV films are dubbed in Hungary but at least 70% of the films in the cinema are subtitled (cartoons and films for children are always dubbed), whereas you'll find subtitled films in German cinemas once in a blue moon.
loic wrote:
At the risk of being presumptuous, can I suggest that your hostility towards dubbing is especially prevalent if it were an English language programme? Would you be equally adverse to dubbings if the programme in question is not in English and let's say you are suffering from near-sightedness and have misplaced your reading glasses?
So true. No-one complains why, say, a Russian film is dubbed into another language. However, they should.
I prefer films in the original (with or without subtitles) to dubbed films, but these films tend to be less popular in Hungary with the vast majority of people, and popularity is a key factor there. Most of the small cinemas playing quality films (very often in the original with subtitles) have gone bankrupt recently because the "plebs" prefer dubbed American crap. (Just a side remark: Don't get me wrong. There *are* good American films but certainly they aren't the too popular.) It's such a pity for other reasons as well: compared to the bloody expensive Hollywood Multiplex movies they are hardly breaking the bank.
Swedes in general are very good at English -- that's an indisputable fact. However, I'm not sure if the "English films in the original" thing is a result of or a reason for that. I hope my last utterance means what it should mean...
Walker
loic wrote:
Quote:
Sure, I can appreciate that there are differences in the quality of dubbing. But I still think it's wicked and wrong. Even if the audience is used to dubbing and thinks that there is nothing strange about it, it is still deprived of hearing the original language. We Scandinavian folks are known for being relatively good at English. How do you reckon that is?
At the risk of being presumptuous, can I suggest that your hostility towards dubbing is especially prevalent if it were an English language programme? Would you be equally adverse to dubbings if the programme in question is not in English and let's say you are suffering from near-sightedness and have misplaced your reading glasses?
Yes, I would. The lip sync is not the worst part; it's mainly the unnatural quality of the dubbed actors' 'voices' that gets on my nerves. I've seen British and American productions (childrens' programs that weren't cartoons) dubbed into Swedish. I've seen parts of American productions dubbed into German, and German TV-series where some of the actors were dubbed by other German actors. The Italians do the same. I used to watch La Piovra when I was younger and some of the actors were dubbed by other Italian actors. As far as I can remember I've only seen one Swedish film where a couple of actors were dubbed. I later learned that those dubbed actors where German. And then of course there are those old samurai flicks that are dubbed into English. In my experience it's always the same; you can turn away from the screen and still be able to tell which actor is dubbed and which isn't, no matter what language they speak. Most of the dubbed movies and series I've seen have been fairly old, though. Maybe they're better at dubbing these days. If I couldn't see I would rather go to the library and fetch a novel on CD (with only one reader) than watch a movie that was dubbed into Swedish (or English).
Quote:
Personally, I think dubbing has a role to play as far as maintaining the cultural integrity of a society is concerned. Mandarin dubbing is often very good. I once watched Friends in Mandarin and seeing Joey speaking in flawless Mandarin with that hint of a Shanghainese lilt is always a laugh.
A friend of mine has spent some time in Austria and he told me about having watched The Nanny in German. I don't even want to imagine what that must've been like.
Quote:
Many telenovelas from Latin America here are frequently dubbed into Malay and I must say that they are very well done. Personally, I'd prefer those telenovelas to be in the original language for it'd otherwise have given me the feeling of experiencing the pleasures of foreign travel without actually having to go overseas. But we are all basically fascinated with languages here and not everyone shares our fascination with foreign tongues. There are people who are actually more interested in watching the plot unravel without having to be distracted by subtitles.
In Singapore, every film is subtitled in Chinese and sometimes, in Chinese and Malay. When I was watching Spiderman 3, it was bloody irritating to have the subtitles covering almost half the screen. Spiderman was blocked by the Chinese subtitles while the Green Goblin was partially obscured by the Malay subtitles.
How thrilling.
And when it's a non English language film, the situation takes a more depressing turn. You'd have up to three different set of subtitles for films like the most recent French language film released here Hors Prix - English, Chinese and Malay.
Yes, I can see how that must be very annoying. When we were kids a friend and I once watched Beverly Hills Cop with Finnish subtitles. They didn't take up more space on the screen than Swedish subtitles do, though, but it was so annoying that we ended up cutting out strips of paper and attached them onto the screen using tape. Three different set of subtitles? That's ridiculous!
Quote:
One of the benefits of subtitling, I must say, lies in its unconscious ability in promoting literacy. As a result, I am much better in reading than speaking in Malay, thanks to the tireless subtitling efforts of the producers.
I sometimes try to avoid reading all the subtitles when the language is English and only read them when I need to, but out of habit I usually end up reading all of them anyway.
Liz wrote:
Swedes in general are very good at English -- that's an indisputable fact. However, I'm not sure if the "English films in the original" thing is a result of or a reason for that. I hope my last utterance means what it should mean...
I believe that the "English films in the original" thing is one of several reasons. Hearing English all the time makes us know better than some others how English is "supposed" to sound.
Liz
I saw a Hungarian film about ten years ago in which a well-know Italian actor (Franco Nero) played the main role. Needless to say that he was dubbed into Hungarian by a Hungarian actor! That makes no sense -- why did they need an Italian actor then???
I don't know if anyone has the same problem but I hate subtitles! If there are subtitles I don't understand the original text (English or other languages I understand quite well under normal circumstances) because subtitles distract my attention. I prefer films in the original without subtitles or with subtitles in the original language (e.g. an English-speaking film with English subtitles) as I was deaf and dumb. However, it can be annoying, too...Subtitles aren't always in accordance with what the characters actually say.
Walker wrote:
I believe that the "English films in the original" thing is one of several reasons. Hearing English all the time makes us know better than some others how English is "supposed" to sound.
So the thing that allegedly happens to Hungarians very often would never happen to Swedes... I've heard / read that several people had thought they could speak pretty good English before they went to an English-speaking country. They were profoundly shocked at how people spoke in reality and they also had problems with making themselves understood. Most of these people claimed that their command of English was at an intermediate level. Maybe it's just me being sceptical but I tend to take these statements with a pinch of salt. I think it verges on the absurd because nowadays almost everyone is heavily exposed to the English language, at least to American English.
On the other hand, those who have ever worked in an English speaking country as an au-pair, waiter/waitress, cleaner etc. are usually extremely proud of themselves and are inclined to think that the mere fact that they've lived their for a while automatically makes them native-like in English. An acquintance of my family who used to have some menial job in the US reacted this way when she got to know that I was studying English literature: "It means that you only speak the literary language, so your knowledge of English is worth sweet F.A. I bet you won't make yourself understood in an English-speaking country. Have you ever heard English spoken by native speakers anyway?" (Of course, she said it in Hungarian. She wouldn't have used the expression "sweet FA" as she has worked in the US!) LOL!
Oh...I strayed away from the already strayed-away topic.
Walker
Liz wrote:
So the thing that allegedly happens to Hungarians very often would never happen to Swedes...
I'm not sure if I know what "thing" you are referring to. They are Swedes who have a rather poor English pronounciation, that's for sure. As for Hungarians I can't say.
Liz wrote:
I've heard / read that several people had thought they could speak pretty good English before they went to an English-speaking country. They were profoundly shocked at how people spoke in reality and they also had problems with making themselves understood. Most of these people claimed that their command of English was at an intermediate level. Maybe it's just me being sceptical but I tend to take these statements with a pinch of salt.
I thought so myself before I started meeting foreign exchange students. A real life conversation in English turned out to be much more difficult than I'd thought it would be, and I do not claim to be fluent in English.
Liz wrote:
I think it verges on the absurd because nowadays almost everyone is heavily exposed to the English language, at least to American English.
Are they? I thought this very discussion had showed that everyone is not heavily exposed to (Amercian) English.
Liz
Walker wrote:
Are they? I thought this very discussion had showed that everyone is not heavily exposed to (Amercian) English.
In fact, they are, if not *heavily*. The most youngsters I know download American films from the internet or copy DVDs, have a collection of them at home and watch them all the time. Almost everyone has English-speaking channels and you can hear more English/American music than Hungarian music on the radio. Twenty years ago hardly anyone could hear English in Hungary, apart from some English songs.
I think most of those people went to England...The lack of rhoticity might cause some problems as we arrrr extrrrra rrrrhotic.
Deborah
Walker wrote:
A real life conversation in English turned out to be much more difficult than I'd thought it would be, and I do not claim to be fluent in English.
That's true in every language, I think. But I'm surprised to hear you say it, since your written English is so good.
Walker
Liz wrote:
Walker wrote:
Are they? I thought this very discussion had showed that everyone is not heavily exposed to (Amercian) English.
In fact, they are, if not *heavily*. The most youngsters I know download American films from the internet or copy DVDs, have a collection of them at home and watch them all the time. Almost everyone has English-speaking channels and you can hear more English/American music than Hungarian music on the radio. Twenty years ago hardly anyone could hear English in Hungary, apart from some English songs.
Yes, I see. I dow... acquire movies too and I watch them without subtitles, as do a lot of other young people around here. It's good practice, at least as far as listening comprehension and vocabulary goes.
Liz wrote:
I think most of those people went to England...The lack of rhoticity might cause some problems as we arrrr extrrrra rrrrhotic.
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
Deborah wrote:
Walker wrote:
A real life conversation in English turned out to be much more difficult than I'd thought it would be, and I do not claim to be fluent in English.
That's true in every language, I think. But I'm surprised to hear you say it, since your written English is so good.
Wow, thank you! But I must stress that my written English is partly due to my frequent use of a dictionary.
Deborah
Walker wrote:
Wow, thank you! But I must stress that my written English is partly due to my frequent use of a dictionary.
Well, then, you sure know how to use a dictionary!
Loic
Walker:
Actually, I belong to your school of thought as far as dubbing is concerned. For me, one of the pleasures of watching a film is actually its language. I don't think I'd have wanted to watch say, Il Postino or Life is Beautiful if it wasn't in shown in the original Italian. It doesn't matter if the film has won awards for artistic direction or superb cinematograpy. One of the beauties of watching a foreign language film is actually the language itself.
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange.
Loic
Walker:
Actually, I belong to your school of thought as far as dubbing is concerned. For me, one of the pleasures of watching a film is actually its language. I don't think I'd have wanted to watch say, Il Postino or Life is Beautiful if it wasn't in shown in the original Italian. It doesn't matter if the film has won awards for artistic direction or superb cinematograpy. One of the beauties of watching a foreign language film is actually the language itself.
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange.
Porthos
La Vita Bella would not have been the same if it were dubbed. I've seen it dubbed and I've seen it with subtitles, and I much prefer the subtitles.
Pauline
Walker wrote:
Liz wrote:
I think most of those people went to England...The lack of rhoticity might cause some problems as we arrrr extrrrra rrrrhotic.
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
for sure Liz will inform you later, but hungarian isn't a slav language. It's not at all related to those languages, (but with the geographic proximity of them now, it's logic to expect it will be slav of course).
Liz
Walker wrote:
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
Erotic??? Surrrrre, extrrrremely rrrrhotic accents arrrre most prrrobably verrry errrotic!
Pauline is right...Our small nation is the odd-one-out in the middle of an almost homogenious Slavic circle (God bless the Austrians, though), thus we feel a wee dislocated there. Hungarian isn't a Slavic language but a Finno-Ugric one and as such is related to Finnish.(I think I mentioned it on the "Audios" thread when I posted my accent sample.) We have several words which are similar to each other in both languages but still, Finnish and Hungarian aren't mutually intelligible. Those who study Hungarian at university have to learn Finnish. I'm not sure if it's compulsory for students majoring in Finnish in Finland to learn Hungarian but some of them do. There are some Finnish students in Hungary, too, who decided to come here (there?) to learn Hungarian and lots of Hungarians go to Finland to learn Finnish.
I agree with Deborah: your written English is very good (as far as I can judge). Besides, it's a great advantage to know how to use a dictionary. Most people who use a dictionary sometimes end up writing something different from the intended meaning. I myself am prone to do it occassionally, that's why I'm afraid of using dictionaries sometimes. I also happen to use a dictionary whenever I want to do a close reading of Loic's Dickensian prose...or should I compare him to Oscar Wilde instead? Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him.
Loic
Quote:
Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him
I think I once told Deborah this, but I've never plodded past the first paragraph of Pride and Prejudice. All of those Victorian writers have this thing for verbose prose and I always end up drowning in them.
Walker
Quote:
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
Yes. It's just that I personally can't stand anything that's dubbed. I do realize that it's largely a matter of being used to one or the other way of dealing with language in movies/TV.
Quote:
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I too always read the subtitles -- even when the spoken language is Swedish. When there's a re-run of a documentary in Swedish they always add Swedish subtitles. About missing out, I can agree that that is what you do in some degree or another when the language is one which you do not speak. For instance, when I watch a movie in Spanish or French I have to focus on reading the subtitles and because of that I might be missing out on some nuances here and there.
Quote:
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange.
Yes, young Swedes are generally pretty influenced by American English. I sure am.
Liz wrote:
Walker wrote:
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
Erotic??? Surrrrre, extrrrremely rrrrhotic accents arrrre most prrrobably verrry errrotic!
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's.
Quote:
Pauline is right...Our small nation is the odd-one-out in the middle of an almost homogenious Slavic circle (God bless the Austrians, though), thus we feel a wee dislocated there. Hungarian isn't a Slavic language but a Finno-Ugric one and as such is related to Finnish.(I think I mentioned it on the "Audios" thread when I posted my accent sample.) We have several words which are similar to each other in both languages but still, Finnish and Hungarian aren't mutually intelligible. Those who study Hungarian at university have to learn Finnish. I'm not sure if it's compulsory for students majoring in Finnish in Finland to learn Hungarian but some of them do. There are some Finnish students in Hungary, too, who decided to come here (there?) to learn Hungarian and lots of Hungarians go to Finland to learn Finnish.
Dear me! I shall have to pay closer attention. I find it a bit strange that students of Hungarian in Hungary have to learn Finnish. I don't know if students of Finnish in Finland have to learn Hungarian either. But if they do... poor Finns! You know, in school they have to learn Swedish.
Quote:
I agree with Deborah: your written English is very good (as far as I can judge).
One tries, you know... (meaning: thanks!)
Quote:
Besides, it's a great advantage to know how to use a dictionary. Most people who use a dictionary sometimes end up writing something different from the intended meaning. I myself am prone to do it occassionally, that's why I'm afraid of using dictionaries sometimes. I also happen to use a dictionary whenever I want to do a close reading of Loic's Dickensian prose...or should I compare him to Oscar Wilde instead? Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him.
How hard can it be? You look up a word and there you go! Just kidding, I see what you mean. For me it's generally just a word here and a word there that I need to look up in a dictionary, and most of the time it's just to get the spelling right. My main problem with dictionaries is that I often get stuck on other words in the dictionary; as I browse through it I'll see a word that for some reason gets my attention, and then I'll see another one that I have to check out and so on. But when I'm here I usually use an online dictionary.
PS. You don't seem to be offended very easily, but sorry if I've been kind of hostile towards you.
André in Zuid-Afrika
The debate about dubbing again? Yawn.....
Dubbing is good.... when it's done properly!!!
Jeezzzz.....
Walker
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
The debate about dubbing again? Yawn.....
Dubbing is good.... when it's done properly!!!
Jeezzzz.....
I think we're just about done, André, so worry not!
André in Zuid-Afrika
Walker wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
The debate about dubbing again? Yawn.....
Dubbing is good.... when it's done properly!!!
Jeezzzz.....
I think we're just about done, André, so worry not!
Good!! I've never been able to grasp exactly what you Europeans have against dubbing...
Uriel
Quote:
Erotic??? Surrrrre, extrrrremely rrrrhotic accents arrrre most prrrobably verrry errrotic!
Of course they are.
greg in noord-frankrijk
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Walker wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
The debate about dubbing again? Yawn.....
Dubbing is good.... when it's done properly!!!
Jeezzzz.....
I think we're just about done, André, so worry not!
Good!! I've never been able to grasp exactly what you Europeans have against dubbing...
Not all of us André, not all of us...
However, dubbing tends not to be done properly when the original is specifically designed to be a product rather than a piece of art (whatever work of art it may be).
Liz
Walker wrote:
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's.
I'm non-rhotic in English but of course I'm rhotic when I'm speaking Hungarian.
Walker wrote:
Dear me! I shall have to pay closer attention. I find it a bit strange that students of Hungarian in Hungary have to learn Finnish. I don't know if students of Finnish in Finland have to learn Hungarian either. But if they do... poor Finns! You know, in school they have to learn Swedish.
Why do you find it strange? Students of French have to learn Latin, don't they?
Walker wrote:
PS. You don't seem to be offended very easily, but sorry if I've been kind of hostile towards you.
I wasn't sure if you were taking the mick or being hostile. If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...if you are sorry why you've been hostile? So, you regret it now...
Walker
Liz wrote:
I'm non-rhotic in English but of course I'm rhotic when I'm speaking Hungarian.
That you are.
Liz wrote:
Why do you find it strange?
Because Finnish and Hungarian are two different languages, no matter if they're related to one another.
Liz wrote:
Students of French have to learn Latin, don't they?
I don't know, you tell me.
Liz wrote:
If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...
Isn't that how it usually works? At least that's what my parents taught me.
Liz wrote:
if you are sorry why you've been hostile?
You see, for most people being sorry is a consequence of having done something bad or inappropriate. Thus, the sorry-part doesn't come until after the bad or inappropriate whatever it may be has been done.
Liz wrote:
So, you regret it now...
Not anymore.
Liz
Walker wrote:
Liz wrote:
If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...
Isn't that how it usually works? At least that's what my parents taught me.
Liz wrote:
if you are sorry why you've been hostile?
You see, for most people being sorry is a consequence of having done something bad or inappropriate. Thus, the sorry-part doesn't come until after the bad or inappropriate whatever it may be has been done.
Liz wrote:
So, you regret it now...
Not anymore.
Now I'm apologising. Sorry for my screwed-up sentences...I was totally knackered, so I had better not post anything last night. I hope you aren't offended.
I know it works that way and that's natural to me, too. I just wanted to know what made you change your mind. Anyway, although you have been a bit testy at times, I don't think you were really hostile. I'm asking you because YOU said that you had been hostile towards me.
Walker
Liz wrote:
Now I'm apologising. Sorry for my screwed-up sentences...I was totally knackered, so I had better not post anything last night. I hope you aren't offended.
No, I'm fine!
Liz wrote:
I know it works that way and that's natural to me, too. I just wanted to know what made you change your mind. Anyway, although you have been a bit testy at times, I don't think you were really hostile. I'm asking you because YOU said that you had been hostile towards me.
Maybe I wasn't hostile then. But testy, I'll admit to that! Why did I change my mind? I guess I realized you hadn't deserved it.
As far as I'm aware you haven't been given an official welcome to the forum. So...
Welcome to Langcafé!
Liz
Walker wrote:
Maybe I wasn't hostile then. But testy, I'll admit to that! Why did I change my mind? I guess I realized you hadn't deserved it.
So I'm not as horrible as I seem to be...
Walker wrote:
As far as I'm aware you haven't been given an official welcome to the forum. So...
Welcome to Langcafé!
Thank you.
Uriel
Dammit, don't kiss and make up NOW -- I was having fun reading you two!
(And by the way, I think Walker was all tongue in cheek -- but I thought Liz was, too. The banter was incredibly amusing!)
Liz
Uriel wrote:
Dammit, don't kiss and make up NOW -- I was having fun reading you two!
(And by the way, I think Walker was all tongue in cheek -- but I thought Liz was, too. The banter was incredibly amusing!)
Of course I was, too!
I was a bit surprised when Walker used the word "hostile" to describe his own attitude towards me. I've also thought of it as a lighthearted banter.
Loic
Walker is a very nice guy. I don't think he'd be even hostile towards his enemies, if he ever manages to make any.
bruce
Loic, I'm new to this forum, but I've been *lurking* around here for some time. (The word lurking just makes me come off as a stalker, doesn't it?) I just want to compliment you on your writing style!
I agree with whoever related your writing style to Dickens' or Wilde's. You definitely know how to use "big words" and you know how to use them well. Your sentence structure is just superb!
Now, I know that you're technically a *native speaker* because English is an official language of Indonesia, but I'm thinking that your spoken English is accented? I think it'd be weird for some ignorant Americans (in this case, ignorant carries no negative connotation, I just couldn't think of a better word) to hear you speak English and then later realize that your vocabulary and grasp on the English language is probably more advanced than their own.
:)
bruce
Sorry, I meant SINGAPORE, not Indonesia
O=)
please don't think I'm an idiot.
Loic
Hello Bruce! Welcome to the forum and well, it is always frightfully nice to hear compliments so thank you!
You know, I would have thought you are of Chinese extraction if you hadn't mentioned your origins. You are not of Vietnamese-Chinese extraction, are you?
PS: Since we were supposed to be skimming the topic of dubbing, have you ever watched any TVB Cantonese productions dubbed into Vietnamese? I have!
bruce
It's frightfully nice to hear compliments? Haha, I've never heard that one before :)
I take it as a compliment that you thought I would be of Chinese blood. I'm full Vietnamese, but I've always wanted to be half Chinese ^_^ Being full-blooded something is so boring!
There are a lot of video stores around here that offer Chinese movies that have been dubbed into Vietnamese. My mother and sisters love to watch the Chinese dramas, but I never really got into it because the movies are always dubbed into the Southern Vietnamese dialect. I think it has something to do with Northern Vietnamese being Communist and not being exposed to foreign products whereas the South is a little bit more capitalist. But anyway, I don't particularly like the Southern Vietnamese dialect, and it's hard for me to understand, considering how I can barely speak Vietnamese at all.
More recently though, the popularity of Chinese broadcasts has been dying down. My mom and sister have been watching more movies from Taiwan and Korea.
Liz
bruce wrote:
I agree with whoever related your writing style to Dickens' or Wilde's. You definitely know how to use "big words" and you know how to use them well. Your sentence structure is just superb!
I agree with Bruce who agrees with me (whoever = me) there. You write very eloquently and elegantly to the extent that your style comes across as slightly archaic to me, which is rather a compliment than deprecation in my book. I'm often wondering if you speak roughly the same way. Of course, not *exactly* the same way as most people don't write exactly the same way they speak.
Loic
Liz:
I speak in a very informal way, actually. I think I am just too used to an academic style of writing. However, my everyday conversations are punctuated with the same sort of youth slang you'd find everywhere. I am not a pretentious prat.
It would actually be possible for me to write my posts verbatim, but it is to be doubted if such a style would interest, elevate and instruct the discriminating public for whom I am writing (Lol. What a fat-headed pompous arse I am). It is wiser, therefore, to stick to what I know best.
Liz
Discriminating public, eh???
I don't think you should write your posts verbatim. I often write my posts verbatim, which isn't the most desirable thing in the world. Of course I don't write my academic essays the way I post here. That would in all likelihood cause a minor outrage.
I hope you didn't misunderstand me. I wasn't insinuating that you were a pretentious prat or something. I just wanted to compliment on your writing style because I like it. That's a kind of writing I don't usually encounter with in real life. You said you used this language because you were used to an academic style of writing. However, I wouldn't say it's typical academic writing - most academic essays I've read were rather neutral, almost sterile, a bit dull and dreary, if I may say so, which yours isn't by any means.
PS: I'm used to reading mostly non-native speakers' (my peers) pieces of writing, which are usually indistinguishable from each other, being very neutral regarding style.
As far as spoken language is concerned, I meet roughly two "groups" of students at uni: those who speak very neutrally and those who speak extremely colloquially. Most of them don't have the ability to change their style when it's appropriate. Mind you, I'm being highly critical, as per usual - I'm not perfection personified, either.
PS 2: I had better stop flattering as I'm starting to feel like a
Loic
Liz:
Whenever I read flattering comments about my style of prose, my cheeks burn and I do not mind telling you that they are hotting up at present.
I think I tend to be rather melodramatic at times and my English masters had been quick to point that out in the past. I had tried to check my excesses and I think I have succeeded pretty well.
But we've meandered too far off from the main subject. Let's stick to the straight and narrow, shall we? Let's begin by talking about dubbing once again!
Liz
loic wrote:
Liz:
Whenever I read flattering comments about my style of prose, my cheeks burn and I do not mind telling you that they are hotting up at present.
I'm trying to imagine what it is like when your cheeks are burning.
You might look like
loic wrote:
But we've meandered too far off from the main subject. Let's stick to the straight and narrow, shall we? Let's begin by talking about dubbing once again!
No, no dubbing again...I don't think Walker and I wanted a dubbing thread. It was the moderator who did it because we strayed away from the original topic.
PS: I haven't got the foggiest why Bruce has chosen the dubbing thread to compliment on your writing style. I just continued what he has started...
Walker
Liz wrote:
No, no dubbing again...I don't think Walker and I wanted a dubbing thread. It was the moderator who did it because we strayed away from the original topic.
Afraid somebody'll start me up again, are you?
Liz
Walker wrote:
Liz wrote:
No, no dubbing again...I don't think Walker and I wanted a dubbing thread. It was the moderator who did it because we strayed away from the original topic.
Afraid somebody'll start me up again, are you?
Of course I am...
Didier69
I prefer to watch films in original version with for deaf people's subtitles. But films are always dubbed in France, besides on some pay channels where films are shown on original version with French subtitles. It's true that many people in France would not like to have only films and shows in original. Not all people are interested in languages unfortunately.
However, I'm not sure if the "English films in the original" thing is a result of or a reason for that. I hope my last utterance means what it should mean... 
I prefer films in the original without subtitles or with subtitles in the original language (e.g. an English-speaking film with English subtitles) as I was deaf and dumb. However, it can be annoying, too...Subtitles aren't always in accordance with what the characters actually say. 
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's. 
