Elections

André in Zuid-Afrika · Elections

It's important to vote... so tell us about elections in your country.

Walker

I think it's important to vote too! You have one little vote and you should use it. I'll agree one vote is a hell of a lot more than no vote at all. The election is on September 17 and I honestly don't know which party to vote for, or if I'm going to vote blank like I did last time. Most people I've asked (I'm a little excited about the election I'll confess) if they know how they're going to vote have said that they're not sure. The four parties in the parliament that're in the middle and to the right have formed an alliance; they want to form a coalition government. The right-wing party even calls itself a "workers party" nowadays. Socialdemokraterna which has been the dominating party the last 70 years or so has crept further and further away from the left and the left-wing party... their leader calls himself a communist which has caused some reactions as you might imagine. He wants to abolish school grades, what the f... The green party doesn't seem to have much to say except on environmental issues. For a moment there I was thinking about Folkpartiet, which is in the alliance, mainly because they focus a lot on school and police, both of which are a disaster, more or less. They also focus on integration and the elderly care among other things. But they're going a bit too far, like wanting to introduce school grades in grade 6 (you first receive them in grade 8 ), and put grades on "order". Most if not all of the parties have their appealing bits but there's so much talk, so many fair promises...

André in Zuid-Afrika

It's great that you're really considering your options, Walker! To vote is a responsible thing to do, and should be done in a responsible way. So many people simply vote the way their parents or their friends do, without really knowing what they're voting for.

greg in noord-frankrijk

Here the presidential pre-precampaign started a few months ago.
It seems the precampaign is starting right now.
NB : elections are due in May 2007...

KSa

greg in noord-frankrijk

Some putative or declared candidates :

after his face lift, I imagine...

(the ex-PM who didn't even qualify for

in 2002)

*joking*

(current PM)

(left of the left)

(prehistoric trotskyst)

And many more... To our greatest pleasure ! :lol:

Walker

André in Zuid-Afrika

Joanne

Loic

Walker: Exercise your vote wisely, mate. I did not get a chance to vote this year at all at the General Elections as my ward was a walkover i.e. no opposition candidate showed up to contest the incumbent.

Greg: I always wonder what Ms Royal sees in her partner Francois Hollande. As for Arlette Laguiller, that unreformed Communist never throws in the towel, doesn't she?

Of course, I am hoping, from an interested foreigner's perspective, for Sarko to prevail. This is not because I am against the idea of women in power (I lionise Margaret Thatcher) but simply because Segolene Royal is in the wrong camp.

Benjamin [inactive]

Why is it that politicians always look so ugly in photographs? Sarkozy... the immigrant who doesn't like immigrants, as my (French) French teacher described him.

What I think is ridiculous is that everyone is already talking about the next UK General Election, even though it's almost three or even four years away, and the previous one was only last year.

It was reported by The Sun (not a reliable newspaper generally, but it has predicted election dates and other similar information accurately in the past) today that Tony Blair will resign on 31st May next year. This won't cause a General Election, but there will definitely be a leadership contest and the winner will become the prime minister. I don't think that Tony Blair has formally confirmed this date, but the extreme pressure for him to resign, which grew further today following several resignations from other members of the government over the issue, seems to suggest that he will have to resign very soon before being booted out.

Loic

It is not just disreputable sources such as The Sun which has ventured out on a leg to make such a brazen speculation. Even the venerable BBC has hazard the same guess and if venerability is a sign of authenticity, Auntie Beeb must be right!

I think it is a pity that his party is so rebellious. If there's a lesson which Labour could learn from the Conservatives, it is not to be drawn apart by intra-party divisions. Tony Blair risks becoming a lame duck Prime Minister for the remainder of his term in Downing Street.

As for Sarko's supposed dislike of immigrants, your teacher betrays a profound, not to mention astonishing, ignorance of his actual campaign platform. Every country has a sovereign right to define its immigration policy and I must say that John Howard (Australian PM) makes Sarko look like a softie as far as illegal aliens are concerned.

Walker

André in Zuid-Afrika

Do you think the new government will bring about a lot of changes, Walker?

Walker

Well, my hope is that things will become better. I didn't vote for Reinfeldt but I'm a little curious to see if things will turn out the way he says they will. One of the main changes might just be that they'll cut taxes, especially when it comes to people with a low/middle income. That's good. The welfare system will suffer a cut-down. I think the welfare system is a good idea, but too many people receice welfare - people who should be working. Some people become dependent on welfare and some people fool the system and that's the ugly face of welfare. Instead they intend to decrease unemployment rates by creating new jobs, cutting the employers' tax, and making it easier for employers to hire and fire people, as the article says. I don't know about that last part, though. Today there are a lot of unemployed people, especially young people, and I really hope that they manage to decrease unemployment rates. I'm not fully employed myself and I know what it's like to be totally unemployed and looking for a job for months and months. I'd so much prefer if they'd cut welfare and increase the number of jobs. Like I said, I think the welfare system is a good idea, and necessary, for some people do need it. But it cannot continue the way it's been; when there are no jobs it's easy to turn to welfare, but when you do your self-confidence hits the bottom and that it turn can make it even harder to find a job.

Another thing they might do is privatize part of the health care system. The idea is that there's supposed to be an option to the regular/public health care that's run by the county council. Today the waiting lists are miles long due to lack of resources. The personnel are way too few and cut-downs have made it impossible to hire more people (no wonder so many people are on sick-leave in this country). Instead of hiring people they have constantly re-organized the organizations in the health care system, and each re-organization has come with a promise that things will be better. During my 6 years on and off at the hospital the organization I've been in has gotten a new name and a new boss like three times. But things remain the same. So I guess privatizing means that people with money will receive health care first. On the other hand those the waiting lists might be shortened.

Apparently the police will be given more resources. There will be "zero tolerance against crime". Crime has increased over the last few years and violence has become more brutal. Organized crime and gang-related violence are two big problems that need to be dealt with. I watched a documentary some time ago about investigations and lack of resources. It was terrible. Piles and piles of cases that would remain where they were simply because the police didn't have time to go through them. It was only a question of prioritizing. Now, Herr Reinfeldt has made a promise that no case will be left uninvestigated. And there will be more policemen, not only investigating ones but also in the streets where people can see them.

They've also been talking about school issues; a lot of kids "finish" elementary school without being prepared for High School. There will be more teachers who have special training in helping children with reading/writing difficulties. No pupil will go unseen but will be supported individually, the quality of schools will be more closely checked etc etc.

The process that asylum-seekers have to go through will be faster to avoid unnecessary suffering and costs. "Asylum-seekers will as fast as possible be given the opportunity to work". As it's been now these people have had to wait for a long time.

Sweden, the Land of Bureaucracy - Be There!

Well, I hope that'll change somewhat.

Pauline

In Belgium it's obligatory vote. I think this is unusual, and it explain the very high % voters in comparaison with the other countreis.

It's very important to vote, and for sure when i will be 18 I will vote ; I would also if there weren't the obligation.

Loic

Pauline, I am given to understand that Belgian politics have largely been devolved to the regional level. Wallon voters decide on issues pertaining to Wallonia while the Flemish do likewise for Flanders.

Do national elections exist then? Since the King inherits his position while the Prime Minister is often chosen by his party, do Belgians of all stripes and colours ever rub shoulders in a polling station?

Pauline

Hello Loic,

Yes, you're correct. belgium is a federal country, and there are 5 parliaments. This are :

1. Brussels capitale
2. Wallonie
3. Flanders
4. Ostkanton
5. National

In the parliaments 1-4 people vote about issues pertaining to the place they live ; locally important. In the national one, it's exaclty what you've wrote -everyone vote for the national government.

How is it in Singapore ? I've heared that it split up from Malaysia because of politic and religion - this was beneficial for Singapore, no ?

Loic

Now, I understand why voting is compulsory. With a gamut of elections to vote from the national to the regional level, it is a wonder if election fatigue has not already set in.

I am impressed that you are aware of Singapore's split from Malaysia. The primary reason for the collapse of the partnership was primarily political with a communal twist. But there were also a myriad of other factors that led to the dissolution of the union.

In Singapore, we simply go to the polls once every 5 or 6 years to vote in the GE (General Elections). The ruling party has never been tossed out of power and is not only the natural party of government, but also the only party of government. Due to the first-past-the-post system, all parliamentary seats in government are occupied by the ruling party save for two plucky constituencies which have been voting for the opposition since 1984 and 1990 respectively.

There is no natural dichotomy between right and left that exists in so many other countries. The ruling party's origins were socialist but its economic policies are now definitely liberal i.e. free market, small government, low taxation, etc. It is also socially conservative but then again, Singapore society is relatively conservative in general.

The opposition are a disparate bunch of parties which usually advocate inchoate ideas about welfarism such as giving the elderly a pension or fully subsiding healthcare a la the NHS in Britain. Of course, these ideas are popular with the working proletariat who can only afford (relatively) cheap travels to Bali or Australia but the idea of a Social Democratic welfare state would never gain common currency among people who have a sound understanding of economics.

Since Belgian is divided along linguistic lines, would I be overstepping my mark if I ask you about your linguistic affiliation? Es-tu un francophone ou un néerlandophone ? D’ailleurs, que penses-tu de la politique séparatiste de l’extrême droite en Flandres ? J’ai entendu dire qu’un certain parti politique qui s’appelle le Vlaams Beweging (sic?) est devenu de plus en plus populaire chez les électeurs de nos jours, surtout dans les métropoles tel qu'Anvers.

Pauline

<< Singapore society is relatively conservative in general. >>

yes, i did heared this : the gold cage.
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<< Since Belgian is divided along linguistic lines, would I be overstepping my mark if I ask you about your linguistic affiliation? >>

no problem - I'm francophone, but i can speak fluently ducth also because I've learned it at school.
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<< D’ailleurs, que penses-tu de la politique séparatiste de l’extrême droite en Flandres ? J’ai entendu dire qu’un certain parti politique qui s’appelle le Vlaams Beweging (sic?) est devenu de plus en plus populaire chez les électeurs de nos jours, surtout dans les métropoles tel qu'Anvers. >>

I think all rigth-wing politic is disgusting- I find it very important having a good social welfare system for look after everyone. Yes, the flemish racist party it's called : Vlaams Belang, before it was : Vlaams Blok and it's very popular especially in antwerp and it get approximatley 30 % of the vote. about separatism, it won't happen i think because the flemish want to have Brussels, and if we will separate they wouldn't get it.

It seems you know very well about belgian politic !!!

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what langauegs can you speak & what are spoken in Singapore ? I think that many have english for their mother tongue, and can speak also malay, chinese etc...? I've heared it's a wonderful and exciting country.

Loic

I am not really au fait with Belgium unless you count my boyhood hero Tintin. I suppose the resident Belgian here (Patriccke) as well as the honourary one (Benjamin) would know much more.

Isn't it an anomaly that a francophone Belgian can also rattle off in Dutch? I seemed to recall an interview with Kim Clijsters in which she said that she converses in French with Justine Hardenne. That negates the need for a French speaker to have an equal facility in the Dutch language, I'd have thought.

As for your conception of right-wing politics, I am sorry that you view it with jaundiced eyes. I agree totally with you that how a society takes care of its most vulnerable is a measure of its worth. Keyword here is society and that is made up of individuals and not the Government. I think private philantrophy and not government subsidies is the answer to our problems. We cannot rely upon the government to provide all the answers.

As for what languages we speak in Singapore, you got it spot on. Honestly, I'd only consider myself fully bilingual in English and Chinese (Mandarin, Teochew, Cantonese, Hainanese) with a cursory and bastardised knowledge of Malay. I can survive in French: my French penpal from Cagnes-sur-Mer visited me in July and we conversed totally in French. However, I am prone to making stupid mistakes in my sentence constructions at times and I would not dare give myself too much credit for it.

And what languages do you speak? Oh, I think it'd be better if I create a thread in the General forum to poll the members here about language capabilities! :wink:

Pauline

<< I suppose the resident Belgian here (Patriccke) as well as the honourary one (Benjamin) would know much more. >>

Is patriccke belgian ? under his name it's wrote that he's in Italy ! Why's benjamin a honourary one ?
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<< Isn't it an anomaly that a francophone Belgian can also rattle off in Dutch? >>

for sure it's unusual, but there are some walloons who can speak dutch
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<< As for your conception of right-wing politics, I am sorry that you view it with jaundiced eyes. I agree totally with you that how a society takes care of its most vulnerable is a measure of its worth. Keyword here is society and that is made up of individuals and not the Government. I think private philantrophy and not government subsidies is the answer to our problems. We cannot rely upon the government to provide all the answers. >>

I disagree completely. This would make to be that if you are vulnerable you must hope for get the private philantrophy of someone, but in my opinion services must be there for all people who will need it. This is the interaction society / government what occur unles it's a undemocratic country. I agree with you it's important society will want helping the most vulnerable, but this is a complex and extremely expensive issue, and therefore many times central at politic. i am absolutely convinced it's not just if it will be something what can be forgot and hope the philantropists always are helping -also, why must you be able exist only because of another person give their money to help you ? this help must be a human right, guaranteed by govenerment.

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<< And what languages do you speak? >>
french, dcth, german and a bit english & spanish.

Porthos

Pauline,

So, if you had to choose between a capitalist economy with very little in the way of a social safety net, or a completely socialist economy with very little private ownership, what would it be? And why?

Pauline

Porthos

<<I think the thing absolutely the most important is that it is made so that everyone can have as much possible good quality life. Health -without it you can't enjoy all the other things. so therefore it's necessary have a good social welfare systme.

Then after, you can look to see how can everyone get more quality, good things in life. But *everyone* included, not the intelligent, rich, succesful, strong people only, but *all*

So, once you have the health care, social welfare you can consider about other necessary things, for exemple housing, employment etc... I haven't somethign against private ownership -there must exist some motivation for work, usually this is financial. To have some peopl who have more money that the others, this is ok when it's balanced, so the rich ones will contribute more taxation.

If many people own their house, it's good ! But it's important that for those people who not wnat it or can't, there's somewhere to live what is comfortable.

Basically, i believe in compassion, care about each other and share, but also respect individual differences and not enforce all the peopl to be the same.

i'm idealist. :wink:

what you think about it ? you're LAA, no ? then you also have some expereinece why is it important to have good social welfare.[/quote]

I believe in compassion, but I also have specific economic views, and a lack of trust in polticians, and their financial judgement with people's money. Governments tend to be very inefficient with their handling of money. The competition which exists in the private sector fuels efficiency, lower prices, and maximum production. I don't beleive in taxing the rich to death, to pay for an inflated social welfare system. It only deprives the private sector of much needed capital for investment in business, which creates jobs, is used for wages, drives economic growth and technological progress, productivity, and all in all, a better quality of life for the vast majority of people. So, I think the U.S. model is superior to Europe's, as is clearly evident now, by the fact that, in the last 15 years or so, the U.S. economy has averaged about twice the rate of economic growth, and half the unemployment that countries like Germany and France have had.

There are two areas where I advocate an increase in government spending, at least in the U.S. That is in public investment (infrastructure, civilian R&D, education, etc) and health care. Too many people in this country lack proper healthcare. I know what it's like to have medical needs, and go without medications or other vital medical attention. I think it would be costly to switch to a socialized health care system, and somewhat detrimental to the economy, but I think it's something that is necessary.
And yes, I am "LAA".

Pauline

I suppose it's the difficult thing, to get a balance between good economy and good social welfare.

I not know about economics ; i have my opinion from my experiences, and because i'm 14, i didn't experienced economic things.my parents have quite much money, so for me if the medical insurance will not pay my bills, my parenst can, but this wasn't necessary. It's very good health care in belgium I think, but the economy is well also - it's possible the US is better, i haven't an idea.

have you visited a neurologist now ?

Porthos

I have visited just about every specialist, every "-ist" there is, even including non-traditional medicine, like acupuncurists, chiropractors, everything. The only one who was able to correctly identify what I have and treat it, was the last doctor I started seeing, less than a month ago. She is a Pediatric Pain specialist, so her area of expertise is in diseases of chronic pain, and strategies for pain management. Prior to her, I had been searching for a diagnosis for 6 years.

Pauline

It must have been truly horrble for you with so much pain and no diagnosis 6 years :cry:

for me at first also it was difficult for the doctors to make diagnosis. it's possible have psychosis with several illnesses, so it was necessary for them to discver more and this is going very slow in the psychiatry. but, since i have the medication and some other treatments, i can notice very much improvment - but, like your ilness, it's a chronic one, and it's not possible cure it.

there are some schizophren people who get quite well, and i know that in the US there are some doctors and psychiatrists who are shizophren themself.I suppose nobody is the same that another, and we have different variation of a certain illness.for me, the medication help, but for other people sometimes not.

I hope very much that your new doctor can help you ; exact diagnosis is the first important step, and this you did make now.

Porthos

Yes, thank you for the buena suerte. I wish you the same. What is your diagnosis? It's interesting, that they use some of the same drugs that treat mental disorders for chronic pain patients. Serotonin has anti-pain functions in the body, just as it works to counteract depression and other mental problems. Are you schizophrenic? I know that some people respond very well to medication, in that they have no episodes at all, while others continue to see things that aren't there some times. For these people, it's very important to be sympathetic. I imagine myself as being a good friend for someone like that, because I'm really good at talking with people, cheering em up, and being encouraging. I approach everything with humor, which is why my screename on this site is "Porthos". Myself and my two best friends call each other the three musketeers. One is Aramis because he is relatively serious and quite. The other is Athos, and I'm Porthos because I'm vivacious, and always outlandsh and humorous all of the time. lol.

Loic

Porthos: Spoken like a true capitalist. I agree wholeheartedly with you. However, I'd go one step further by arguing that a system should be created that fosters private initiative in the realm of healthcare and education.

Nobody is arguing for the removal of the Government. There are certain public goods which no private individual would ever undertake.

I really despise the social democratic model where the Government takes care of an individual from cradle to grave. The success of such a system is invariably contingent upon its coffeurs and such public programmes are supported by high taxation. It penalises those who work hard; it is not fair on those who through their own means, earn more money than others. Do not forget that even the déshérités of society are not totally blameless - we can ask why they did not choose to study harder back in school, for one.

Pauline

greg in noord-frankrijk

Benjamin [inactive]

Would you not agree that some people are simply more intelligent than others then, Greg?

Loic

Of course, I am making a very crude generalisation here. Also, there are a few late bloomers who suddenly decide to wise up later in life. But I maintain that the majority of the people living on the fringes of society did not seize the chance back in school when education was their only means of social advancement.

The role of teachers has evolved in this day and age. They are not there to teach but to facilitate the learning process. To find a scapegoat in the teaching body is unfair. Besides, I am of the belief that self-study is sometimes more useful than attending lectures. Didn't Benjamin mention that his first four years of French classes were a waste of time?

This brings back to the main thrust of my argument. Most developed societies in the world offer everyone an equal opportunity. People who lack the maturity to grasp it should not expect compassion from anyone. These are the people who go clubbing every Saturday night back in school instead of trying to meet their datelines.

As for people who come from a less privileged background, there are instances of many people who grew up in hovels and who barely had enough to have a full meal everyday and yet grew up to be someone.

Ultimately, we can put the blame on their parents: Why didn't they study harder back in their youth?

I have no sympathy for anyone who gets a leg up in life at the expense of the decent and hardworking majority. This is also why I am adamantly against positive discrimination. I find it repulsive that in America, blacks and hispanics are sometimes favoured for varsity applications while Asians aren't although they form a even smaller minority.

KSa

Benjamin [inactive]

greg in noord-frankrijk

Pauline

Pauline

I find those ads by google annoying when they're seeing some words in the etxt and match them. so, here are some words for google get a different theme : weather, rain, sunny, cloud, storm, hurricane, tornado, I hope very much it will change them now and put soem ads for the weather.

Elaine · Re: Elections

Porthos

What really gets me is how political campagins always attack politicians on issues like the price of gasoline, which is beyond any politician's control, and really has nothing to do with taxing policy. But, most people gobble this up, and associate high gas prices with political misjudgement on behalf of those in office, when really gas prices are controlled by global supply and demand issues. Polls show that there is an equal reaction between changes in gas prices, and the popularity (approval ratings) of presidents and governors.

greg in noord-frankrijk

The socialist party has organised a tripartite debate — which is being broadcast right now — involving the three socialist candidates to the candidacy to presidential elections.

Candidates to socialist candidacy now debating are :

Ségolène Royal — head of the Poitou-Charentes region, former minister (positions held : environment, education, family & childhood)

Dominique Strauss-Kahn (DSK) — former minister, former minister (position held : economy & finance)

Laurent Fabius — former prime minister, former minister (positions held : budget, industry & research, economy)

Joanne

Well, the sample ballots for November 7th's General Election arrived in the mail today.

The US Senatorial candidates for NJ are:

Main Contenders -

Nomination by Petition -

And for the US House of Representatives, we have:

Nomination by Petition -

Michael Jarvis (The Moderate Choice)

Elaine

Here in CA, the high profile race this year is the gubernatorial race, with our candidates for governor being:

Arnold Schwarzenegger - Republican
Phil Angelides - Democrat
Peter Miguel Camejo - Green
Edward C. Noonan - American Independent
Art Olivier - Libertarian
Janice Jordan - Peace and Freedom

Write-in Candidates:
Mary Carey (the adult film star) - Independent
Eric "Moose" Mahoney - Independent
George Fellows - Independent
Daniel Sage - Independent
James Harris - Socialist Workers Party
Elisha Shapiro – Nihilist Party

US Senatorial candidates:
Dianne Feinstein - Democrat
Richard Mountjoy - Republican
Michael S. Metti - Libertarian
Todd Chretien - Green
Marsha Feinland - Peace and Freedom
Don J. Grundmann - American Independent

US House of Representatives:
Howard L. Berman - Democrat
Stanley Kimmel Kesselman - Republican
Kelley L. Ross - Libertarian
Byron Lear - Green

Also, former CA Governor, Oakland Mayor, and career politician Jerry Brown is running for Attorney General. I've been trying to go over the measures and initiatives, but I'm all like, "Hunh???"

Joanne

That must be a big sample ballot. We had our gubernatorial race last year, so that cleared up the NJ ballot a lot.

Loic

If John Kerry were to become a fan of Serie A football, he'd certainly be a natural supporter of Inter Milan. Why? Inter Milan are well known for self-destruction by scoring an own goal when they are leading.

Personally, I think a spell out in the cold would do som good for the GOP. It would make them more competitive in the 2008 Presidential elections. They are besmirched by so many scandals at this moment that I am quite at a loss as to what to say. Being clobbered would knock some sense into them: they have been in control of the two chambers since the Clinton administration.

What might stop the Democrats from storming their way to a majority in the Senate might be weak internal politics. They have shown us that they do not stick by their candidates through thick and thin (read: Joseph Lieberman). They are only good at offering destructive feedback: they can lambast the President for all they like with respect to the cock-ups in Iraq but none of them are able to offer a BETTER solution to the quagmire. They are more protectionist than the GOPs and I don't think the world would take kindly to an inward-looking America that shys away from free trade after preaching to us about the joys of the free market.

But I am not watching it with bated breath. Nothing much would change. Sure, George Bush might receive a lot more heckling in Congress. Nancy Pelosi would set a historic precedent by becoming the first women to become House Speaker. Bilateral FTAs would come under intense scrutiny. And the Democrats would have finally emerged from their long exodus in the wilderness.

Loic

So the news have trickled in and it is a little bleak and gloomy for me: the Democrats have wrestled control of the House from the Republicans.

Elaine

Well, I'll just say that I'm content and leave it at that.

Fredrik

Yes, this is God's chastisement of the godforsaken Republicans, if you allow me to express myself in American terms.

Joanne

Ahhhhhhhh..... Sweet gridlock. I hear Donald Rumsfeld is stepping down, too! It's a good day to be an American

Flap them wings and quack, Georgie-boy!

Porthos

Benjamin [inactive]

Fredrik

My brother just told me that the first Muslim has been elected to the House of Representatives: Keith Ellison, a black man who converted to Islam.
And the amazing thing is that he was elected for Minnesota and replaced a Norwegian-American representative!

Porthos

Deborah

Joanne

The Democrats just gained one more seat in the Senate. In Montana, Jon Tester was declared the winner, and ousted Sen. Conrad Burns.

So, all eyes on Virginia now. If Jim Webb wins over Sen. George Allen, the Democrats will have a 51-49 majority in the Senate.

They'll be recounting this one for weeks, if not months.

André in Zuid-Afrika

Deborah

Joanne

André in Zuid-Afrika

Breaking news.... The Democrats have won Virginia and thus control of the senate.

Deborah

Loic

I didn't expect the Republicans to even lose the upper House.

As for the flake which the outgoing Secretary of Defence has received over his bungling of Iraq, he at least cannot be faulted on one thing: patriotism to his country.

The Democrats campaigned on a totally negative platform. They did not offer one iota of constructive feedback. They seemed more interested in revenge than anything else. They are only good at opposing the government and now that Donald Rumsfeld has been pushed, I can bet to my last penny that the Democrats do not have a BETTER solution to offer short of cutting and running.

But seriously, lest the world and some misguided Democratic supporters think that America is becoming liberal, I have noticed that many of the Democratic candidates were rather conservative in outlook. Many were against abortion. Many were godfearing Christians. The political complexion of the country has not changed even if blue seems to be the more favoured colour at the moment.

greg in noord-frankrijk

Porthos

Elaine

Porthos

Besides Loic, it's not good to have one party in control of all three branches of government. The result is extremeism, and in this case, right wing extremeism, a.k.a. - war mongering, unilateralism, and unprecedented federal budget deficits.

Joanne

double post

Joanne

greg in noord-frankrijk

Loic

I am biased. Everyone has a political opinion. I guess I am flogging a dead horse because honestly, I must admit that there is a little bit of glee in me as well that the Republicans have their noses bloodied. If this is what it takes for them to restore their credentials, so be it.

Donald Rumsfeld's fall from grace is astonishing. In the wake of the September 11th attacks, he was hailed as a hero, wasn't he? Greg believes that this man has a severe character defect. Possibly. But nobody can take away his tenacity.

A gridlocked government has produced modest but successful results in the past. President Reagan had to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress in the last two years of his administration as well. As an outsider, I am primarily concerned with the ramifications of the recent mid-term elections. Would a Democratic-controlled Congress be less interested with engagement in Asia? Would she be more likely to cozy up with China and turn a blind eye to atrocious human rights violations in the country? Would she abrogate on her duties to defend Taiwan or Japan in the event of a Communist aggression?

Somehow, I have this feeling that the Democratic Party are just not as loyal to their allies as the GOP. They have an instinctive preference for Europe over Asia.

Fredrik

Porthos

greg in noord-frankrijk

Loic

Hey Sander, you didn't even make a squeak about the latest elections in your country.

André in Zuid-Afrika

Yes, what exactly is the position now?

Akoni

I hate Dutch politics, our politicians are all little children in the skin of mature people. Last time I checked there still is no cabinet formed.

Akoni

O and Obama for President!

Benjamin [inactive]

Loic

Coalition politics is a recipe for instability. The first-past-the-post system is so much more sensible!

PS: I read that Hillary Clinton is by far the most popular candidate among registered Democrats. If she were to be President, presidential politics'd be in effect dominated by the Bushes and the Clintons since 1990.

Benjamin [inactive]

Loic

I know, Benjamin. It's the same system here. The ruling party gets 68% of the popular vote but sweeps all the seats in parliament save for 2.

It's like running a race. What if the first runner-up is just a split second slower than the first? You can't argue that he get a special first medal because he was awfully close to being the first as well. Life doesn't work in this way.

André in Zuid-Afrika

Coalition governments as a result of a PR election in which no party has a majority can work very well. We have an example of that in SA at the moment. After the local government elections last year, no party had a majority in the City of Cape Town (metropolitan) council. A coalition of seven parties, with an overall majority of three seats, was then formed (led by the Democratic Alliance, and excluding the ANC). Since then there has been seven attempts to topple the city government. In the latest attempt, the ANC managed to lure away one of the small parties in the coalition, robbing the govt of its tiny majority. In a surprise move, the Independent Democrats, previously exluded from the govt, decided to join the coalition, finally giving it a strong majority.

The point is that despite all the attempts to topple the govt, the coalition was doing an extremely good job. Decisions are based on concensus, and with the current make-up of the coalition, it directly represents more that 60% of the electorate. If a direct system like the Westminster system was used, the Democratic Alliance would have won a clear majority in the council, thus ruling alone, despite representing only about 42% of the voters.

Fredrik

loic:
Your point is an old one and to a certain degree a reasonable one. I would have loved to have strong majority governments all the time, but not at the expence of fair representation. My solution to the problem is to make the party system less strict. Too often people are hindered from fruitful co-operation because of party affiliation. If all the representatives knew they had to form a government and didn't have to care too much about party affiliation, wondrous things could happen.
But that would perhaps just have transferred the problem of a minority government with weak parliamentarian support to a broad, characterless coalition government with large support? Hmmm.....but there's gotta be some kind of solution? Norway is no good source of inspiration, because here parliamentarism and party politics entered the stage simultaneously (1884). Before that we had the American system, just with a king instead of a president.

Loic

True, coalition governments can work well. But they often do not work well especially if parties in the coalition all have disparate philosophies and are more interested in advancing their own agenda rather than working towards the common good of their electorate.

Also, many coalition governments spend too much time trying to work together effectively when they should concentrate all their energy and resources into running the country. In today's fast changing world, time is money and decisions need to be made sometimes without resorting to lengthy negociations. Do you think Jack Welch was namby-pamby enough to discuss every minor detail with his board? If he had done so, GE would not be such a highly rated company today.

Benjamin [inactive]

The Scottish Parliament actually combines both first-past-the-post and proportional representation. Basically, there are two votes on the ballot paper: the first is for the first-past-the-post vote, where they vote for an individual candidate, whilst the second is for the proportional representation vote, where they vote for a party. In 2003, this resulted in a coalition government between Labour and the Liberal Democrats, with a broadly centrist and anti-independence agenda (less so from the Liberal Democrats, who support federalism). The SNP is the official opposition party, which is broadly centre-left and emphatically supports independence. Then the Conservatives are another significant opposition party who are broadly centre-right to right-wing and are opposed to independence. Finally, there are also the Greens and the Socialists, who tend to stick together and promote their more decidedly left-wing pro-independence views — together, they are almost as significant as the Conservatives, but they wouldn't have any representation in the parliament at all if the system were based only on first-past-the-post voting.

However, this would be the composition of the Scottish Parliament if only the first-past-the-post votes were taken into account:

46 — Scottish Labour Party
13 — Scottish Liberal Democrats
_9 — Scottish National Party
_3 — Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party
_2 — others

Thus, there would be one very dominant party, with other parties having very little influence. On the other hand, the percentage of the votes in the proportional representation vote were as follows in 2003:

29.3% — Scottish Labour Party
20.8% — Scottish National Party
15.5% — Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party
11.8% — Scottish Liberal Democrats
_6.9% — Scottish Green Party
_6.7% — Scottish Socialist Party
_8.9% — others

They then do something magic with this to work out how many seats each party can send.

Akoni

The new Dutch coalition:

CDA (Christen Democratisch Appèl) = (Christian Democratic Appeal)
PvdA (Partij van de Arbeid) = (Party of Labour)
CU (ChristenUnie) = (Christian Union)

Not my favorite coalition.

Joanne

Loic

I feel that whether Hiliary Clinton can return to the White House depends a lot now on the strength of the Republican candidate.

In my opinion, the best chance of not giving the Democrats a stranglehold on the three branches of government would be the endorsement of Rudi Guiliani. It doesn't matter that he is not as socially conservative as the religious right would like him to be - he can always revise his positions. This is what we call a politician.

Joanne

Uriel

If the Democrats are smart, they won't pick Hillary Clinton as their final choice. When the primaries come to town, I know I won't vote for her. I have nothing against her, but the sad fact is that she's the equivalent of box office poison. Too many people just hate her guts. We need a candidate with strong appeal to the party faithful, who doesn't simultaneously generate equally strong negative reactions in the party non-faithful, the independent voters, and the fencesitters on the other side.

You know, somebody with universal appeal!

(Good luck....)

Clinton will only win the support of democrats who are going to vote democrat no matter what. (Moi, however grudgingly....) She doesn't have any other wide appeal, and to win an election, any candidate needs to pick up votes from beyond that core group. (No matter which party they're running for.)

I think that was the problem with John Kerry -- the man was fatally uninspiring -- even democrats couldn't get too excited over him -- it was only the disappointment with Bush that allowed him to pick up enough votes to come as close to winning as he did. On his own, he certainly didn't have what it took.

Loic

Rudi Guiliani is tough on crime and this would please the conservative base. He is also widely perceived as the hero of 11th September who promptly rushed down to the disaster scene while the Administration dithered. This, once again, is a plus to the conservative base.

If he is endorsed, I think he would probably do some backpeddling in public as far as his views on the contentious issues such as abortion, guns right, etc are concerned. Anyway, his pro-choice credentials are not as bad as James Dobson and other religious conservatives would portray them to be. As a Catholic, he would probably have immense respect for the sancticity of life.

Uriel, I want to say that the best chance of Rudi Guiliani being elected President also rests upon Hiliary Clinton as his adversary in the campaign. That way, her very presence alone would rile up the conservative base and provoke them into voting for Guiliani. Guiliani would also be able to pick up protest votes from the moderate centre who might have otherwise voted Democratic, given the GOP's absymal track record in the past two years.

The South is the bedrock of GOP support and I hope that if Guiliani is chosen, he would not proceed to take them for granted.

KSa

RUDI GIULIANI IS MY NUMBER ONE

In fact he has always been... or at least since he started restoring normality i.e. no tolerance for criminals.
He proved that severity of punishment can deter criminals although liberals state otherwise.

Joanne

From your lips (fingertips?) to God's ear, KSa.

Especially now that on the other side, Clinton and Obama are in a fistfight of sorts for "Top Dog" position...

Loic

I still think John McCain remains a formidable challenger for the Republican nomination.

Anyway, do you the fall of the fall guy in Scooter Libby would adversely affect the Republican chances come 2008?

Joanne

The people supporting McCain and Giuliani are the ones who are heartily sick of these Scooter-type shenanigans of the past few years. The two campaigns won't be affected very much by the Libby verdict, in my opinion, as long as they keep distancing themselves from the current administration the way they are now. (Actually, McCain is not doing too well with the whole distancing thing. He and Mitt Romney are in a footrace to see how many Christian fundamentalist asses they can kiss before the 2008 primaries.

Politicians suck, which is the real reason why we keep the Second Amendment around.)

About Libby, if the verdict doesn't get turned over on appeal, I think Bush will probably pardon him... on January 20, 2009.

Loic

I think John McCain is mending bridges with the conservative base. Actually, I also hugely admire the fact that he openly supports the surge in Iraq despite mounting opposition towards the idea in the country.

But it is an extraordinarily huge gamble and one that may reap windfall dividends if the surge manages to pacify Iraq.

What I am worried about Rudi Guiliani is his inability to carry the South. The bedrock of the GOP's powerbase is in the South and it is imperative that they continue shutting the Democrats out from the region.

Loic

For those with the remotest of interest in Malaysia, the results of the General Elections have dealt a bloody nose to the incumbent Government. The opposition has captured 5 state governments; Malaysia is made up of 12 states and a federal administrative territory encompassing the administrative capital of Kuala Lumpur and the judicial capital of Putrajaya.

Unfortunately, it looks as if 3 of the states that have fallen into opposition hands would now be ruled by the islamic-based party PAS (Parti Islam SeMalaysia). Doesn't bring a lot of cheer to me when I go up north. Not that I've ever set foot into a PAS-ruled state before, who knows what the future portents for me.

André in Zuid-Afrika

Fascinating results in the local council elections in England and Wales, as well as the London mayoral election, all held on Thursday. The Conservatives now seem set to win the next general election. The most astonishing perhaps is Labour slipping to third place behind the Liberal Democrats.

Loic

Add the recent Conservative triumph in the byelection at the Labour stronghold of Crewe and Nantwich. It is such a pity that Benjamin is not here anymore; I'd have loved to needle him about the poor showing of his (probable) favoured candidate in the Lib Dems who ran a distant third.

I like to think that the recent victory was not a vote against Gordon Brown's inept handling of the 10p tax reform, but rather a strong vindication of the kind of modern, compassionate Conservatism which David Cameron has espoused. The Tories have managed to ingeniously portray themselves as the "Champion of the Poor" in this election - and I think it is very heartening that many blue collar workers who have otherwise derided Edward Timpson as a "Tory toff". If there is anything which I find revolting among socialists, it is this sickening sense of inverted class snobbery which they have wholeheartedly accepted as a cornerstone of their identity: to be a Socialist is to stand in opposition to everything that is genteel, cultured and posh.

As for Boris Johnson, I even joined a facebook group which paid tribute and homage to him. Yes, he does seem like a bumbling idiot, a bit of a Bertie Wooster at first sight. But while Bertie Wooster is intellectually non existent, Mr Johnson could claim to have at least gone to Eton (where he was a King's scholar) and Oxford (where he was elected President of the prestigious Oxford Union). He graduated with a laudable 2:1 and to say that London has elected a foolish man is a very mischevious statement to make.

André in Zuid-Afrika

I agree (also on Johnson)

For the first time there are signs that voters are not just protesting Labour policies, and in fact supporting Tory policies, as confirmed by this article in the Telegraph.

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