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| Irrintzi |
ETA, a barbaric organization.To wikipedia:Euskadi Ta Askatasuna or ETA (Basque for "Basque Homeland and Freedom"; IPA pronunciation: [ˈɛːta]), is an armed Basque nationalist separatist organization founded in 1959. It evolved rapidly from a group advocating traditional cultural ways to an armed group demanding Basque independence. Its ideology is Marxist-Leninist. All formulations of ETA's goals have centered on sovereignty and self-determination for the Basque Country. ETA's motto is Bietan jarrai ("Keep up on both"). This refers to the two figures in the ETA symbol, a snake (representing politics) wrapped around an axe (representing armed fight). ETA is listed as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, European Union and (since 2003) the United States in their relevant watchlists. ETA has committed approximately 900 murders and dozens of kidnappings. More than 500 ETA militants are held in prison in Spain and France. On March 22, 2006 the organization declared a "permanent ceasefire." ETA broke the ceasefire with a car bomb attack on December 30, 2006 at Barajas International Airport, Madrid killing two Ecuadorian immigrants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA 
Eusko Gudariak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_...wfZw&mode=related&search= |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Coincidentally, we were studying ETA and Basque separatism in geography earlier this week. Basically, we had to study separatist pressure in Europe, and although Ireland would have been a more obvious example for us, the teacher chose the Basque Country because he thought that studying Irish Nationalism would be too emotional — a huge number of people in Britain actually have Irish passports, and many of us in the class may have had worry about which side we supported.
However, it is very interesting to see that the whole situation seems extremely similar. Apparently ETA and the IRA (Irish Republican Army) actually know and support each-other — it's almost as though they drink in the same pubs. |
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| Porthos |
Ben, what's the current sentiment among English people about Scottish independence? I'm not speaking of the polls. I'm just curious as to what the people you meet have to say on the matter.
And since you're English, perhaps you can help me with this, although it's a little off topic. Is "Mitchell" an English surname? Or is it Scottish? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I've found that most people don't seem to be particularly bothered either way, and take the attitude that Scotland can have independence if its people vote for it. I can't imagine that many people in England would be too upset by Scottish independence, unless they had vested interests in maintaining the union. Some people from England (and Scotland), however, argue that an independent Scotland would be economically worse off than it is at the moment. Admittedly, Scotland ranks amongst the worst (and often the worst) in Western Europe for almost everything — poverty, depravation, life expectancy, heart disease, depression, suicide, homicide, education, amenities, teenage pregnancies, alcoholism, drug abuse, housing quality, recycling of household waste — practically every social issue you can think of. I believe that Scotland's current GDP per-capita is roughly the same as that of the Czech Republic. The counter argument to this is that these problems result at least partially from being run primarily by a government in London who don't really care about them. They believe that increased powers to the Scottish Parliament or full independence would enable the necessary action to be taken in Scotland. Indeed, most of the arguments which the Scottish National Party use to promote independence are economic, since they believe that a properly managed Scottish economy could theoretically be as prosperous as that of Norway. This is hardly surprising, as Alex Salmond, the leader of the Scottish National Party, is an economist. Either way, I think that the current state of Scotland is a national scandal.
I wouldn't know, sorry. It could be both. |
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| Fredrik |
Irrintzi:
I presume you are against ETA? How much support do they have among the Basque people? Are they just some dangerous lunatics on the edge of Basque society? When you mention Scotland's many problems and compares it to Norway, Benjamin, it's very evident that Scotland never underwent that massive political, national and economical awakening that Norway experienced in the 19th century. In 1814, the year we made our constitution, Norway was just a sleepy Danish colony of ignorant farmers. In 1905, when we declared independence from Sweden, Norway had become a very self-conscious nation, politically, linguistically and economically. A lot of anti-causes had made the Norwegians highly self-conscious: The anti-Swedish political struggle, the anti-Danish linguistical struggle, the religious struggle against the established church, the struggle for agricultural co-operatives and the anti-alcohol struggle. All that + a good dose of national Saga Romanticism and Arctic Imperialism made an independent nation out of a country of "monkeys in the 400 year night of Danish colonialism", as Ibsen put it. Finland went through the same process, with a linguistical struggle against Swedish and a political fight against Russia. So Scotland, as President Roosevelt said: Look to Norway! 
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| Loic |
I think any organisation with noble aims of self-determination instantly forfeits its nobility when it espouses violence as an instrument of furthering their goals. The Spanish Prime Minister must be wallowing in self-pity now when he boldly predicted just the day before the explosion that 'relations with ETA would get better'. Better, my foot!
And did you say that they have Marxist-Leninist credentials? Shoot all of them, I say. They can go join Lenin in hell. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Seriously, the Scottish National Party are obsessed with Norway — as you say, essentially because it provides an example of what Scotland could potentially achieve. It won't be easy, and there's no guarantee that independence would necessarily improve things, but at least then Scotland would have to take responsibility for itself — they (perhaps I should start saying 'we' in preparation for later this year) would no longer be able to blame their problems on London. Here's a video of Alex Salmond, leader of the Scottish National Party, talking about how wonderful Norway is: http://www.snp.org/campaigns/newyear And here's another which also mentions Norway — rather surreal but with nice music: http://www.snp.org/campaigns/righttochoose I was looking at Scottish estate agent websites yesterday, which has made me question whether or not I really want to go to university in Scotland — it's reminded me just how grim much of the place is, and it seems that most of the property is rented as there seems to be almost nothing for sale. But I think I'm still going to go, as parts of Scotland are very beautiful, and I want to do something a bit different. However, I think I'll feel a certain responsibility to stay there afterwards, especially if I'd spent five years taking advantage of their universities, taking part in the independence campaigns (which would hopefully have been won by then) and participating in the Scottish Green Party or whichever party I choose to join — it just wouldn't be right to say 'bye then' and go and live a life of luxury in Luxembourg or wherever. |
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| Shouga |
You think? :\ I don't really see any problem in going to a country for five years and then leaving, if the purposes of it fitted what I wanted to do at the time - such as politics, universities etc. - I don't think there's a point of staying on at a country when it has nothing left to offer me. |
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| Irrintzi |
The youngs are the most touched about ETA, their ideas are quite respected around the basque youngs envirronement, statistics about the basque identity:
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| Fredrik |
Really? So it's comme il faut for young Basques to support ETA?
Is the (apparently) strong Basque identity in Spain linked with support for ETA? |
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| Irrintzi |
Yes, the strong identity, the exclusion and the hate are one of the factors to the support for ETA. |
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