| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| Elaine |
Hooray for Norway!... and Iceland and Australia, too!I'm packing my bags and leaving tonight. Can you spare a room, Fredrick?
What are your thoughts? Is Norway really the best place to live? |
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| Deborah |
Re: Hooray for Norway!... and Iceland and Australia, too!
Any place that has so much darkness in winter wouldn't be a good place for me to live. |
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| KSa |
Since my early childhood when I read the stories about children of Bullerbyn or Nils who was travelling North on a wild goose back, I have associated Scandinavia with a peacful, quite but also mysterious land.
I like long nights, severe winters and I am not fond of overcrowded places so I think I would feel at home in Scandinavia. If I had to choose between Norway or Sweden, I would choose Norway for landscapes, Sweden for social protection and both for quality of life and wild life. |
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| Walker |
Iceland! Those fuckers! I wouldn't support that country now that they're about to take up commercial whale hunting again! In the year to come they're planning to kill 9 rorquals and 30 Minke Whales. The former is already facing extinction. The Swedish government has pleaded and criticized (no, damn it, no!) but Norway, the whale hunting nation, has encouraged them (knock yourselves out!). | ||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
I'm going to Iceland for my 18th birthday next year!! 
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| Fredrik |
I will duly forward all your congratulations to my fellow countrymen, hehe....
Honestly, we are getting a bit too used now to being elected best place to live....this is like the ?th time it happens! You are all welcome to come up here and enjoy the world's best place, if you are willing to pay 50 NOK = 7,70 USD = 6 EURO = 4 GBP for a pint of beer! Actually, I have to admit that Norway is a pretty good place to live, although we are slowly turning into a kind of Switzerland. KSa: Although Sweden used to be richer and thus have a bigger welfare state than Norway, that changed when we found oil in the 70s. Today there is almost no unemployment in Norway, while it's a growing problem in Sweden. (Indeed, many Swedes emigrate to Norway looking for work.) You might be right about there being more wildlife in Sweden than in Norway, because the Swedish government has brutally centralized rural Sweden so there are almost no people left, while in Norway people still live in secluded mountain valleys and on stormy islets. |
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| Fredrik |
Walker:
I recently saw a BBC interview with an Icelandic minister where all his sensible points were just ignored by the BBC. I'm not saying that I support whaling, because I feel I don't know enough about it, but I am certainly open for the option that there might be enough whales for sensible whaling. Here along the West Coast of Norway there are now so many seals that fjord fishing is in danger. Just because seals are very cute animals they shouldn't be holy cows. The same might apply to whales. |
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| KSa |
Fredrik: I poorly expressed myself. I meant I would choose any of these two countries for the quality of life and wildlife. I'd never think of Swedish quality of life as superior to Norwegian
As for wildlife, I can think of Norway abundant in wild birds and bears. As for birds, I'm sure but what about bears (my favourite animals) do you still have them? In Poland there are some 100 bears, some of them semi-domesticated and having no fear towards humans. |
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| Loic |
If there are still enough whales in the world to go around, there is no reason why we should ban this practice as long as whale hunting is regulated and monitored.
If we choose to deprive another sovereign country of her right to do as she pleases, we are only guilty of committing cultural imperialism by imposing our values on others. I get irked as well whenever Western countries criticise the Chinese culinary dish of shark fins. Please, it is our cultural right to kill sharks for their fins and anybody who tells us otherwise is a racist. |
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| Porthos |
I agree somewhat about the shark fins at least. How is eating shark any different than eating cattle or pork or deer, or fish for that matter? Afterall, a shark is a fish. | ||||
| Deborah |
You can read about the objections to the shark fin market here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=e...=shark+endangered&btnG=Search |
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| Walker |
I agree. I might've overreacted on the Iceland issue. Fredrik, yes, as long as it's sensible. It's just that when an animal is facing extinction I think it's wiser to leave them be so that they may survive. Then of course it's another thing to hunt seals or elks whose communities need to be kept down, although I would never take part in such an activity. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I read yesterday that, in the 1960s, Scotland and Norway had essentially the same standard of living. Whilst Norway has become the best place to live in the world, Scotland retains some of the worst poverty in Western Europe, very high rates of murder, suicide and heart disease, and an embarrassingly low life-expectancy in many areas. 
Having said that, I'm hoping that Scotland will become my country next year!
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| Uriel |
The problem is that whales are highly intelligent, social animals with a highly developed brain and communication system -- makes them uncomfortably like us. I can't support commercial whaling. Subsistence whaling in the far north -- that's another story, I suppose.
As for shark fin harvesting -- there's nothing racist in decrying that practice. It's cruel and wasteful to cut the dorsal fin off a living shark and then throw it back into the ocean to bleed to death or attract predators. Granted, most commercial slaughtering enterprises are unpleasant, and I'm no vegetarian. But we should at least strive to make it as painless as possible. I've asisted in plenty of pet euthanasias, so I've seen painless death administered. It's not possible to use that particular chemical in meat animals (because it would also be deadly to the consumer), but it's possible to make it less horrific than it often is. |
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| Fredrik |
KSa:
According to a government website there are 35 to 55 bears in Norway, but between 1600 and 2800 bears in Sweden!!! And all the Norwegian bears live close to the Swedish border.... Norway is a country of sheep farmers, not of bears, apperently! (I have always liked bears too, but I'm not sure if I would like to meet one while out hiking.) I think we all can agree that whaling can be discussed as an aoption if the whales are killed with as little pain as possible and if the whale meat goes to feeding some of the world's hungry mouths. Walker wrote:
I am sure this is the correct translation of bestand, but it just sounds so funny, like a secret conspiracy of seals or a gay elks community! 
Benjamin wrote:
Is it true that Scotland is a country very divided by well-off Calvinists and have-not Catholics? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Oouh... that's an image I associate more with Northern Ireland, although I understand that a similar situation does exist in Glasgow and in the Southwestern part of Scotland in general, as this area has a lot of Catholics. In Scotland as whole, however, Catholics constitute about 20% of the population; most of the rest are either Presbyterians (essentially Calvinists, although the teachings of John Calvin are perhaps not so emphasised these days) or unaffiliated. The Catholic vs. Presbyterian divide is symbolically represented in Glasgow by football teams — Celtic vs. Rangers. That match probably causes more violence and hooliganism than any other in the world. |
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| Fredrik |
Could it be because Scotland has to share all its oil with millions of other Britons while Norwegians can enjoy the profits alone? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Yes, probably. That's one of the main arguments for Scottish independence. | ||||
| Loic |
In return, Scotsmen get to lord over the United Kingdom in politics. Holyrood actually receives a disproportionately higher amount of subsidies per head than England, Wales and Ulster.
Since Australia is mentioned on the list, I'd like to add that Perth is probably the best city to stay in if you are interested in migrating Down Under. In fact, Benjamin, you might be interested to know that in certain Perth suburbs such as Joondalup (sic?), the proportion of British expats is as high as 25%. If you have heard of the talented comedy writer Ben Elton, he also holds an Australian passport and spends his Antipodean time in Perth (Australia, not the one in Scotland). |
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| Uriel |
Perhaps life is better for bears in Sweden? Looks like they're voting with their feet....
Are we talking black bears or polar bears, by the way? |
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| Fredrik |
Brown bears.
Northwestern Sweden has always been very sparsely populated and combined with the heavy centralisation politics of Sweden, this has led to Sweden becoming much more bear-friendly than Norway, where every remote vally and isolated skerry is inhabited by a bear-hating sheep farmer. |
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| KSa |
Interestingly, I read yeasterday that the city of Brasov in Romania (approx 300 000 inhabitants) is facing problems of... synanthropic brown bears walking down the streets in search for food! I used to see bears in the Tatra mountains in pretty crowded places but it was still mountains, not a big town. How would you react if you stumbled upon a bear in a city? |
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| Daniel |
Northern Ireland does indeed have a problem with religion and politics. And this also exists in the south of Scotland (particularly in and around Glasgow) due to Irish immigration. There is also a significant Scots immigrants in Northern Ireland and because the Scots are largely Protestants and the Irish are largely Catholics...
Glasgow and the surrounding areas have the worst poverty in Western Europe and because of this, the locals' health is very poor and the average life expectancy in these areas rarely exceed 65! But elsewhere in Scotland, things are much better and have very low crime rates. In fact, many islands in the Outer Hebrides have the lowest crime rates in the UK and perhaps even in West Europe. For example, on the island of Barra, crimes (even petty) are almost non-existent! I've always wanted to live in Iceland. I'm fascinated by the country, its language and its strikingly breath-taking and surreal landscape. I don't mind the weather - in fact the climate of northern Scotland (where I grew up for most of my life) is very similar to that of Iceland - cold in winter, cold in autumn, cold in spring but just barely warm in summer (average summer temperature in Inverness, north of Scotland, is only between 12C and 16C during the day and as low as 3C at night.) |
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| Loic |
I read that the Highlands had been ethnically and culturally an Irish colony. Western Scotland had always enjoyed strong ties with Ireland and Gaelic literature in Scotland prior to the Act of Union was usually a debased and inferior version of Irish fables and tales. Not until the Act of Union occurred did quintessential 'Scottish' traditions such as the kilt and highland dancing were retrospectively invented in order to give the Scotchmen a unique sense of identity.
But that does not diminish my admiration for Scotland. It is the country that gave us Adam Smith, arguably the father of modern economics. And of course, Scotland bestowed us with the noblest game in the world - golf. In South-east Asia, golf is de rigeur if you want to do business. Daniel, have you ever played at the Old Course before? |
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| Porthos |
Loic,
Do you consider yourself "Anglo"? Just curious. And you're right. I do have a sort of Eurocentric view of the world. Although I used to be very interested in east Asia. But I'm still very interested in Latin America and the history of meso-america. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Josh, I think you've posted this on the wrong thread. | ||||
| Loic |
Benjamin is observant. Yes, I think you were replying to my question in the History forum. What is the meaning of 'Anglo'? Anglophilic? Anglophone? No to the first; yes to the second. |
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| Uriel |
There are bears in many of the smaller mountain towns in NM, and they are occasionally encountered on porches/walking down the street/rummaging through your trash.
Best advice: stay away, don't turn your back on them, and make noise so you don't startle them. Personally, I think I might start by crapping my pants -- hopefully that might render me an unappetizing little morsel. Bears will attack without provocation, and don't have the same sense of a "safe distance" that most wildlife do, so if you see one, you may be pretty much screwed no matter what you do!.
I was once walking out to my car at my dad's house and heard something moving around in the dark. Figuring it was just a stray dog, I almost didn't turn the porch light on, but then I remembered about the bears and flipped it on... ...turned out to be a huge skunk instead -- right next to my front tire! Almost as bad! It saw me and rose up in a full handstand, which is an I-mean-business-I-will-spray-you-right-now display, and I decided that whatever I needed from the car could wait until it moseyed off. But you should have polar bears up in those arctic reaches -- says so right in those Phillip Pullman books.
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| Deborah |
Are they black bears or brown bears or both? |
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| Elaine |
During the hot summer months, black bears have been spotted coming down from the hills above Los Angeles and swimming in backyard pools. Should I stumble upon one in my pool (if I had a pool), I'd probably let it continue swimming, shoot video from a safe distance that I can sell to the news outlets ($$$$) and call Animal Services to make sure they stand by in case things get out of hand. 
A black bear in a Porter Ranch swimming pool. News item |
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| Deborah |
They always say that bears are intelligent animals. Here's proof. |
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| fab |
The only time I saw a bear in my region was in the east suburb of Paris in a place where there were strange animals such as giant mices with round ears.
It took a picture of it, he didn"t looked much frightening.  [/quote]
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| Pauline |
A black bear in a Porter Ranch swimming pool. How wonderful have a black bear in your swimming pool !!!! Bears are very sweet. But probably it's better you don't swim at the same time with him 
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| Pauline |
LOL ! But, he must be dangerous because there's a chain in front for prevent him attack someone
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| Loic |
Winnie the Pooh ought to be charged for immodesty; that bloke never wears a pair of trousers. | ||||
| Porthos |
Here here! I noticed that when I was four years old. |
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| Elaine |
I felt the same way about Donald Duck.
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| Shouga |
Reminds me of that old rumour. The 'Donald Duck was banned in Finland because he doesn't wear trousers' rumour. |
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| Uriel |
Our bears in NM are mostly black bears. Although black bears actually come in all colors, from black to brown to even the rare Kermode bear of British Columbia, which is actually a creamy white....black bear:
Funny story about bears who frequent a neighboring town, where my ex-boyfrend once had his softball tournament interrupted while several bears strolled onto the field: 
As the saying goes: Save a tree, eat a beaver. |
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| Deborah |
Ah, the beautiful white...black... "Spirit Bear".
Funny story about the bears. I like the bear-themed art works. |
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| Daniel |
We used to have bears in Scotland but they are all extinct. Same goes for wolves. And the nature people are thinking about whether to re-introduce them because we have a deer over-population now. | ||||
| Uriel |
It's been a successful strategy in Yellowstone. Not only did the prey animal population get culled, but the vegetation patterns began to change back to historical ones, as overgrazing and other herbivorous practices that alter plant distribution were corrected by both the change in herbivore population, and the change in their behavior and travel patterns (they had to be more wary of predation and weren't out in the open as much).
Despite fears of livestock predation by neighboring ranchers, the wolves actually cut down on it by killing their main competition: coyotes. Turns out coyotes kill far more sheep than wolves do, and can populate an area in much higher numbers than wolves by virtue of being much smaller. |
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| Fredrik |
That probably never actually happened in Finnland, where both sexes eagerly take sauna together....
Ah, so that white albino bear is one of the mysterious Spirit Bears? I just love them, as the Norwegian version of the fairytale about the Beauty and the Beast, Kvitebjørn Kong Valemon, is about a white bear called Valemon. (The inspiration must either have been an albino brown bear or it was an 19th century folk memory of one of the polar bears the Norwegian king received as tribute from Greenland in the Middle Ages. One of them was re-given to the king of England, who kept it in his royal zoo in the Tower of London, where it was allowed to fish in the Thames.) |
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| Deborah |
But have you ever noticed that when Daisy Duck (who also goes bottomless) comes out of the shower wrapped in a towel, she's covered all the way below her tail feathers? | ||||
| Walker |
Well, I think that's the correct translation! Maybe "population" is more corrent, though. I can't help but think of "samhälle" when I see the word "community" even in a context such as this, as if the animals had their own babbling politicians, their own police and postal service etc.
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| Fredrik |
And perhaps they do? How can we know.....
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