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Porthos

How to find College help

I don't know much about applying for College, financial aid, or selecting good business schools. I've never had an guidance in these areas.

I want to attend a university and obtain some kind of business major. I'll minor in some liberal art like languages, or something of that nature.

I want to be in Sales and Trading at an investment bank.

I want to go to a school that is close to home. I'm planning on taking my general ed (first two years) at a JC, to save money, and then I want to transfer.

How do I find out if the school has a good program in the careers I'm interested in? And how do i go about with the other stuff?
Shouga

Do you have a careers advisor at your school?
Pauline

Have they websites what you can visit? Then you can write them for ask to receive some infos. I havn't more suggestions.
Benjamin [inactive]

Re: How to find College help

So, when will you be going to university/college? As Shouga suggested, would they not guide you through the process at school?

Would they have open days for the various universities/colleges, where you could look around and ask lots of questions? If you look at the websites of the various universities/colleges, you should find details of any such days, plus full information about the courses which they offer.

It's easy for us — all our applications and everything are organised for us by one website. We just have to decide which universities we want to go to, and that's it!
Loic

I am in no position to advise you on the complicated university entrance system, but I can shed light on what is viable in business schools if you like.

I am at present a first year accountancy student and we do take quite a number of business modules in our coursework.
Porthos

Well I want to find out if the schools I'm looking at are good business schools or not. How do I know?

Does it have a good reputation? I'm planning on going to a Cal State school, so IDK.

http://www.calpoly.edu/
Shouga

Don't you have any ratings tables? In Britain, we have ratings tables to tell us what the best colleges and universities are for specific subjects. Many schools, colleges and universities have a speciality subject. For example, our school specialises in technology and humanities.
Benjamin [inactive]

Shouga wrote:
Don't you have any ratings tables? In Britain, we have ratings tables to tell us what the best colleges and universities are for specific subjects. Many schools, colleges and universities have a speciality subject. For example, our school specialises in technology and humanities.

That's right. Also here, some universities are simply seen as more prestigious than others by the population in general. Like, the most prestigious universities are 'Oxbridge' (i.e. Oxford and Cambridge), followed by the other 'ancient' universities, followed by the 'red-brick' universities, followed by the 'plate-glass' universities, followed by the newest universities. There are some exceptions to this, however.

For example, I probably want to go to St Andrews, which is an 'ancient' university (the oldest in Scotland), but is obviously not Oxbridge. This means that it's a prestigious university, but is not at the very top. Here, in terms of finding employment later, the received wisdom regarding the 'prestige' of the university will probably be more significant than its rating in any of the various league tables. However, in terms of the quality of education and facilities there, then the league tables would be more important, and are subject-specific. (But if you're like me, then you just apply to universities that are located in nice places, without paying much attention to its rating, lol).
Julian

Re: How to find College help

Porthos wrote:
I don't know much about applying for College, financial aid, or selecting good business schools. I've never had an guidance in these areas.

How do I find out if the school has a good program in the careers I'm interested in? And how do i go about with the other stuff?


In my high school we had a college counselor who had an extensive library of resources available to college-bound students. She had catalogs to major universities throughout the country and colleges that I had never heard of, detailing enrollment requirements, submission deadlines, test requirements, miscellaneous campus information, ranking in specific fields of study, etc. She also had updated information on financial aid, grants, private-sector scholarships, etc. I'd be very surprised if your high school didn't have a college counselor or some sort of career advisor on the premises.
Fredrik

Exactly! Even in Norway, a country with only six universities to choose from, we had a counsellor for helping us out with that in high school.
Loic

Here, let me help, Porthos. Since you are interested in a business school, how about Wharton or the Sloan Business School for starters?

I believe Havard also has a sterling business school.
Julian

Porthos wrote:
Well I want to find out if the schools I'm looking at are good business schools or not. How do I know?

Does it have a good reputation? I'm planning on going to a Cal State school, so IDK.

http://www.calpoly.edu/


If you don't mind relocating to the San Fernando Valley, you might want to check out Cal State Univ Northridge (CSUN). They've got an excellent Business & Economics school (both graduate and undergrad). Back when I was shopping around for colleges, with the intention of majoring in Business, I chose CSUN over UCLA because CSUN's undergrad program had a better reputation (although UCLA had the name recognition) ... and for much less money! However, it was then and still is an "impacted" major, so you had better have above average GPA or high SAT scores.

http://www.csun.edu/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_University,_Northridge
Deborah

[deleted by djb]
Deborah

No, Julian, I think Porthos should go to CalPoly -- it's so close to Morro Bay and Pismo Beach. And the...shudder!!...Madonna Inn. On the other hand, CSUN has a pretty good record for show biz alumni. I think any school that would feature Cheech Marin's image on its home page is worth a look.

(I hope this has been of some use, Porthos.)
Porthos

See the thing is I've been hearing from employers is that having a degree from a big name school like Wharton or Harvard or Standford or USC doesn't really make that much difference, so long as you still earned a degree at an acredited university, even if that be a Cal State University. And Cal Poly is within driving distance from where I live, so I could stay at home and only have to work part time. That way I could still go to school and not have to worry about entirely supporting myself, which would invovle working full time in addition to going to business school, and having to contend with the fatigue of a chronic disease.

And Loic, those schools sound great in my dreams, but realistically, I will not be able to attend them unless I somehow attain a miraculous scholarship. And I really don't want to go to school 3,000 miles away, pay out of state fees, with and run up a tuition bill (debt) in the amount of close to S100,000.

But Deborah, why do you recommend that I go to Cal Poly? Do you know anything about the school, other than that it's by some nice beaches?
Deborah

Porthos wrote:
But Deborah, why do you recommend that I go to Cal Poly? Do you know anything about the school, other than that it's by some nice beaches?

Maybe I made a mistake, joking about a serious topic. Sorry!
Loic

You're quite right that it does not matter that much to a prospective employer whether his employee went to Wharton or a low-key college that dare not speak its name. If I were a headhunter, I'd rather hire someone who has graduated First Class from an average university than have someone from Havard or MIT's Sloan School graduate with a Third Class or worse.

However, there is a high correlation between wage increase and the type of MBA programme as studies have revealed. In other words, a Havard Business School MBA programme is much more valuable than say, the MBA programme of my current school.

Since it does not hurt to plan for the long-term, here are the rankings for 2007 as compiled by the Financial Times:

1. University of Pennsylvannia: Wharton (USA)
2. Columbia Business School (USA)
3. Stanford University GSB (USA)
4. Havard Business School (USA)
5. London Business School (USA)
6. University of Chicago GSB (USA)
7. Insead (France/Singapore)
8. New York University: Stern (USA)
9. Dartmouth College: Tuck (USA)
10. Yale School of Management (USA)

I'm going to engage in a spot of shameless self-promotion here and put forward my school as one of the choices you can consider for an MBA programme:

65. University of Notre Dame: Mendoza (USA)
66. Nanyang Business School (Singapore)
67. Washington University: Olin (USA)

PS: I am seriously thinking of going for an exchange programme next semester and I am hoping to do a stint in Essec Business School in France. To the Parisians of this forum, does the name of Essec ring a bell at all? I read that it's supposedly a grande ecole which confers a bit of pedigree on it. The caveat would be that I have to study my modules in French but I suppose language difficulties should not be that great if I take subjects which involve number crunching only.
Julian

Harvard
Benjamin [inactive]

Porthos wrote:
And Cal Poly is within driving distance from where I live, so I could stay at home and only have to work part time. That way I could still go to school and not have to worry about entirely supporting myself, which would invovle working full time in addition to going to business school, and having to contend with the fatigue of a chronic disease.

Would you want to carry on living with your mother though? I must say that I've always seen university as an opportunity to leave home — something I'll be doing in six or seven months, and to tell you the truth, I can't wait. In fact, most of the universities I've applied to are as far away from Birmingham as possible, lol. I'm not planning on getting a job when I'm there either, and I cannot imagine how anyone would possibly be able to work full time whilst they're at university.

So tell me... does the government not cover most of your university fees in the US? And do all universities not have the same fees?
Joanne

Porthos wrote:
And Cal Poly is within driving distance from where I live, so I could stay at home and only have to work part time. That way I could still go to school and not have to worry about entirely supporting myself, which would invovle working full time in addition to going to business school, and having to contend with the fatigue of a chronic disease.

If I were you, I would look into taking a few CLEP exams for college credit, Porthos. You'll have to make sure your schools accept them, which exams they accept, and how high your scores need to be, but they're an efficient way to fulfill some of those boring core requirements that every college makes you take. You'll need $100 for each exam ($60 for the exam fee, and $40 for the test center fee) and about two weeks of intense studying for each subject. In the long run, you could end up saving hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars...
Uriel

Benjamin wrote:
Porthos wrote:
And Cal Poly is within driving distance from where I live, so I could stay at home and only have to work part time. That way I could still go to school and not have to worry about entirely supporting myself, which would invovle working full time in addition to going to business school, and having to contend with the fatigue of a chronic disease.

Would you want to carry on living with your mother though? I must say that I've always seen university as an opportunity to leave home — something I'll be doing in six or seven months, and to tell you the truth, I can't wait. In fact, most of the universities I've applied to are as far away from Birmingham as possible, lol. I'm not planning on getting a job when I'm there either, and I cannot imagine how anyone would possibly be able to work full time whilst they're at university.

So tell me... does the government not cover most of your university fees in the US? And do all universities not have the same fees?



Welcome to the real world, Benjamin. I worked two jobs (50-60 hours a week) while going to grad school full time. As an undergrad, I worked multiple part-time jobs -- only because I could not find full-time employment.

Hell no, the gov't doesn't pay for most of your tuition in the US, and no, tuition rates vary from one school to the next -- there are no standard rates.

If you are going to a state university, which receives state tax money for part of its operating costs, and are a resident of that state, you qualify for in-state tuition -- which is somewhat reduced. If you are not from that state, you will pay out-of-state tuition -- which can be several times what a resident would pay.

Private universities (no state tax subsidy) charge everyone the same exorbitant amounts, in-state or not.

Grants and student loans are available as well, some from the federal government -- the Pell grant and federal student loans are two examples. Loans must be paid back (with interest); grants do not.

I, too, was happy to get an opportunity to leave home -- well actually, I had no choice: my father was still stationed in Japan when I went to college in the US -- but not everyone is in a financial position to pay their own room and board (or have their parents do so) at such a young age, so it's not always practical. Especially if they aren't working!
Uriel

These are the current rates for a semester at my alma mater, New Mexico State University -- a crappy little cow college in a backwater state:

Fall or Spring Semester Tuition

12-18 credits (full-time) NM residents: $1,968 non-residents: $6,267

On-Campus Housing for one semester:

Double Occupancy $1,463
Single Occupancy 2,195
Four-Bedroom Apartment 1,631
Two-Bedroom Apartment 1,847
Efficiency Apartment 1836
Two-Bedroom Home 1388
Family Housing (per month) 490

Meal Plans for on-campus facilities for one semester:

Meal Plan A—Unlimited $1,090
Meal Plan B—240 Block 1,055
Meal Plan C—160 Block 1,040
Dining Express—80 Block 590

There are also various lab and equipment fees, entrance exam fees, health insurance fees, activity fees, degree fees, etc.

Oh yeah -- and then you have to buy all your books! Figure another couple hundred for that, per semester....
Uriel

These are CalPoly Pomona's current fees (note that they are on the quarter system, not the semester system like NMSU):

http://www.csupomona.edu/~fas/spr2007.htm#fees

Something to consider, Porthos -- I went to quarter schools and semester schools, and I vastly preferred the quarter system -- you get to take more classes in the same amount of time, because there are 3 quarters to a year (4 if you go to the summer session), but only 2 semesters (plus summer sessions).

Of course, you do cover the same amount of material in a 12-week quarter-long class that you cover in a 20-week semester-long class -- they're more intense, and you can't screw around or skip class too much, or you will fall hopelessly behind.

And unfortunately, if you transfer quarter credits to a semester school, they dock them -- what should be a 3 credit class will only count as 2.7 credits or so, even though they really are comparable in real life.
Benjamin [inactive]

Uriel wrote:
Welcome to the real world, Benjamin. I worked two jobs (50-60 hours a week) while going to grad school full time. As an undergrad, I worked multiple part-time jobs -- only because I could not find full-time employment.

Wow... well it seems that university education is a very different experience in the US than here! How did you find time to work 50-60 hours a week whilst you were at university? I don't think my parents even work that amount now! Actually, many universities here actively discourage their students from having jobs, and some even forbid it completely.

Uriel wrote:
Hell no, the gov't doesn't pay for most of your tuition in the US, and no, tuition rates vary from one school to the next -- there are no standard rates.

Hmm... here, tuition fees can never be more than £3,070 (about $5,500) per year, and it's usually much lower. And if you're Scottish at the time of application, and you go to a university in Scotland, then you don't actually have to pay any tuition fees at all. We're basically given a 'loan' to cover these fees (if applicable) and our living costs, so we don't have to produce any money before we go or whilst we're there. It's not very much, but it should be sufficient for what will be my relatively non-extravagant lifestyle in Scotland. I write 'loan' in inverted commas because it's not really about what you owe, but about what you're able to pay afterwards. You don't 'pay it back' as such; it's just automatically deducted from your salary at about 9% when you've finished university. And if you haven't paid it all back within 30 years, then it just gets written off. And you don't have to pay anything back at all if you're earning less than £15,000 (about $27,000) a year — which would be about average for the general population, although below average for a graduate.

Uriel wrote:
I, too, was happy to get an opportunity to leave home -- well actually, I had no choice: my father was still stationed in Japan when I went to college in the US -- but not everyone is in a financial position to pay their own room and board (or have their parents do so) at such a young age, so it's not always practical. Especially if they aren't working!

So do most people leave home to go to university in the US? I know only very few people who are staying in Birmingham to go to university, so it seems as though most people here do.
Porthos

If I wanted to leave home at my age, with absolutely zero financial support from my mother, I would have to pay for a vehicle, which involves car insurance in the range of $200-300 a month, plus gas for the car, along with any maintenance expenses. I would have to pay about $1,000 a month for rent, along with expenses for food, laundry, etc. And in the U.S., you have to pay for all of this yourself. Plus you would have to pay for tuition, lab fees, books, and all other school related expenses. So to support myself, I would have to come up with about at least $2500 bucks a month, which would involve working full time while still attending university full time. It's not an easy task.

A lot of middle class families are able to save up for their children's college costs, and they will help put their kids through college. For those of us who are less fortunate, the best our parents can do is provide free board and food at home, so that we only have to pay for our education expenses, spending money, and car related expenses.

Sure I would love to get out of the house and be on my own, but sometimes the woes of such a move for a person in my position outweighs the benefits enjoyed as a result of independence.

If I go to a university near home, I can be around a support network of friends and at least one family member, and still be able to live at home.

Benjamin, Loic, you don't know how lucky you are if you can live away from home and not have to work! That seems like a dream to me...
Porthos

I'm actually preparing for future expenses right now. I just got a job again, and I'm planning on getting a second one. I ride my bike about 6 miles round trip to work, like the wicked witch of the west, from the Wizard of Oz, and I've even adopted her theme song. "Do du do do, do du do du do........"
Lazar

I'm gonna be going to college somewhere in Worcester, which is only about half an hour from where I live. I'll live there (commuting would be undesirable for a number of reasons), but I think I'll come back home on the weekends. There are three good universities here (I've been accepted to 2), and I'm really close to my family (and especially my cat, don't laugh).
Benjamin [inactive]

Porthos wrote:
If I wanted to leave home at my age, with absolutely zero financial support from my mother, I would have to pay for a vehicle, which involves car insurance in the range of $200-300 a month, plus gas for the car, along with any maintenance expenses.

And you'd definitely need a car, right? I suppose one needs a car to get around in the US because it's so big. This contrasts with Scotland, where a third of the population don't even have access to a car.
Porthos

Yeah, Benjamin, public transportation in America sucks royally. You really need a car to get around town, go to school, go to work etc. It's very difficult to depend on bus schedules, and I can only get so far in life with my bike, lol!
Shouga

Although I live in England, I'm still going to have to get a job whilst I'm at university, or I'll never be able to afford ANYTHING that I want. I can't understand how you're going to live at university without a job, Benjamin - are your parents just going to send you money for 4 whole years, despite you being in a different country?

Out of my main group of friends, two work for their parents, two work at a local store, one works at a restaurant, one is a caretaker, and the last one is rich and therefore sees no need to get a job yet. So I'm the only one in my group of friends that hasn't landed a job yet. I don't get any money except on my birthday and at Christmas, so I'm in desperate need of a job, and fast...

You're lucky Benjamin, to get pocket money, and to not have to work until you're in your mid-20s.
Benjamin [inactive]

Shouga wrote:
Although I live in England, I'm still going to have to get a job whilst I'm at university, or I'll never be able to afford ANYTHING that I want. I can't understand how you're going to live at university without a job, Benjamin - are your parents just going to send you money for 4 whole years, despite you being in a different country?

They'll probably send me enough money to make up for the fact that I'm not entitled to a full student loan since my parents apparently earn too much money. That wouldn't be very much though. I'm just not planning on spending very much — there wouldn't be that much to buy in somewhere like St Andrews anyway.

Shouga wrote:
You're lucky Benjamin, to get pocket money,

Yes, although I almost never spend it, so it wouldn't make much difference if they did or not, in all honesty.
Shouga

You'll probably be surprised at how quickly the costs start to mount up.
Benjamin [inactive]

Shouga wrote:
You'll probably be surprised at how quickly the costs start to mount up.

You're right. However, plenty of people do manage to survive at university without having to get a job whilst they're there. Cambridge, for example, actually forbid their students from working during term time.

I should admit though that I'm actually inheriting some money from one of my deceased great-great-aunts. I don't know how much it is yet though. But you're right, I'm very fortunate that I won't really have to worry very much about money whilst I'm at university.

Perhaps more to the point, if I go to St Andrews, there simply won't be any jobs there for me to have. That is a significant part of the reason for why I'm not planning on being in employment whilst I'm there (if I go there, which I hope I will).
Porthos

You know I noticed Benjamin that you use the word "whilst" quite a bit. You use the word in place of "while", which is the word I would use. Is this a standard feature of British English, or is it just an aspect of your own personal wordage?
Benjamin [inactive]

Porthos wrote:
You know I noticed Benjamin that you use the word "whilst" quite a bit. You use the word in place of "while", which is the word I would use. Is this a standard feature of British English, or is it just an aspect of your own personal wordage?

Both 'while' and 'whilst' are common in British English, but their usage may vary according to dialect and sociolect. I tend to use 'whilst' and 'amongst' more often than 'while' and 'among'.
Porthos

Why do you prefer those alternatives? Any particular reason? Does it sound more intellectual among elitists in the UK?
Benjamin [inactive]

Porthos wrote:
Why do you prefer those alternatives? Any particular reason? Does it sound more intellectual among elitists in the UK?

It's not so much that I 'prefer' them — it's just what I say. I suppose that 'whilst' and 'amongst' might seem more formal to some people depending on the context, but that is not why I tend to use them.
Porthos

Well that's why we all have our own style. Not to mention the fact that you're English, lol.
Shouga

Whilst, amidst and amongst are all in common use in English, although rare and considered old-fashioned by Americans. 'Whilst' is taught in my English class as being the correct substitute for 'while' in most situations, and to be honest, I've never really questioned its use.
Uriel

Quote:
So to support myself, I would have to come up with about at least $2500 bucks a month, which would involve working full time while still attending university full time. It's not an easy task.


Honeychile, I don't even make that kind of cash -- I bring home less than $1500 a month!

Why on earth would car insurance cost you $200-300 a month? Are you planning on driving a Dodge Viper? I have a brand-new car with full comprehensive & collision on it, and that only costs me $70 a month! I know young males get charged more than the average driver because they're considered riskier drivers, but that sounds a bit steep!

Quote:
Whilst, amidst and amongst are all in common use in English, although rare and considered old-fashioned by Americans.


No -- it is not used at all by Americans. And it goes beyond old-fashioned -- I had no idea, until I went to England, that it had survived Shakespeare!

I didn't even have any idea how it was pronounced -- in print it looks like it should have a short I. I was surprised to find it had a long I. (Well, I was surprised to find it, period....or full stop, as you would say!)

Benjamin, I hate to say it, but I was able to work overtime and still handle grad school because I honestly found grad school to be a breeze. I speed-read, I memorize easily, I test well, and I can pretty much pull papers out of my ass. I've always aced school, from grade school to college. I'm a natural student. In fact I had to force myself to drop out because I realized that going to grad school was just my way of staying in a comfortable environment in which I knew I would excel -- when I really needed to go out there, find a job, and become a "real" adult, and quit messing around. I was 26 or 27 -- time to grow up, already. My coursework wasn't preparing me for a good job, or opening any opportunities for me -- it was just vanity and a good way to have to sell a car every semester to pay my tuition.

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