I couldn't believe it. To my everlasting delight, I met an elderly couple from the Netherlands today at work. The man was from Utrecht, and the woman was from Friesland! They were very impressed that a Californian like me would know so much Dutch. They asked me why on earth I would want to learn Dutch, and I told them simply because I was fond of the language. I always try to tell people how similar English is to Dutch, other Germanic speakers always say that English is so different, and that it is not very much like Dutch or German at all, because it has so much Latin vocabulary, blah blah blah. Which is true, English is certainly a rather distant member because of that, but it doesn't detract from the fact that our basic core vocab is very much like Dutch, because most of our core vocab is Anglo-Saxon.
"English is a lot like Dutch."
(Dutch couple) - "Not really, it is much more like German. English is 60% Latin."
"True, it certainly is more like German, but it also shares a lot in common with English that it does not with German, and Dutch is somewhat in between English and German in many ways."
"Yeah, but it is much more like German."
"Okay."
But as usually happens when I encounter the rare person who speaks Dutch with whom I can practice, they often prefer speaking in English! Dutch people always do that!
Anyway, I intend on studying abroad while at university, and possibly staying in Amsterdam for a semester. I want to study there, and I want to study in Spain.
The husband spoke a little bit of Frisian, and so we started talking about "bread, butter and green cheese is good English and good Fries".... and all that stuff. It was fun. The likelyhood of me meeting a Frisian was always so slim, that I thought it would never happen. But, what a small world it is.
Loic
Ha ha. You sound like a converted heathen who has seen the light as far as the Germanic nature of English is concerned. I remember you being rather emphatic about the huge stock of Romance words in the not so distant past and how it could have fundamentally altered the intrinsic classification of English.
I don't blame the congenial Dutch couple for their aversion to speaking in English when they were holidaying in America. I can imagine myself responding in English to every half-baked question in Chinese as well (No offence here, mate).
Porthos
Quote:
Ha ha. You sound like a converted heathen who has seen the light as far as the Germanic nature of English is concerned. I remember you being rather emphatic about the huge stock of Romance words in the not so distant past and how it could have fundamentally altered the intrinsic classification of English.
Well admittedly, I have come to see more similarities. The similarities are harder to identify than those shared between the Romance languages in my opinion, but once you learn the subtle differences, the cognates become clearer and clearer. However, I still hold the opinion that English is far different from other Germanic languages. It is clearly the most different. It has a very unique syntax among West Germanic languages, and one that is more akin to North Germanic languages. It's vocabulary is heavily Romance influenced, and much of our so-called advanced vocabulary has been replaced by Romance words. Our orthography is even Romance influenced. And Dutch is still far closer to German than it is to English. So yeah, I hold steadfast to my position, although I can say that I now see a lot of similarites between English and Dutch.
Liz
Loic wrote:
I can imagine myself responding in English to every half-baked question in Chinese as well (No offence here, mate).
Do you know how annoying it is???? Like here in Germany, when you ask or say something in German (and I *do* speak German) and you get an English response all the time, even if you have proven that you *can* speak German. Aaaaargh! I haven't come to bloody Germany to speak English all the time.
I'm from
- the Chech Republic (3X) (not because I have a Chech accent but most foreign students are from there)
- Italy (3X)
- England (3X)
- Poland (2X)
- Romania (2X)
- Bulgaria (2X)
- Spain (2X)
- Turkey (1X)
- Austria (1X)
- sometimes I'm from Germany but from a different county (LOL!)
according to the Germans. They never think of the possibility that I'm Hungarian. LOL!
Walker
Liz wrote:
Loic wrote:
I can imagine myself responding in English to every half-baked question in Chinese as well (No offence here, mate).
Do you know how annoying it is???? Like here in Germany, when you ask or say something in German (and I *do* speak German) and you get an English response all the time, even if you have proven that you *can* speak German. Aaaaargh! I haven't come to bloody Germany to speak English all the time.
How good is your German? I'm sure it's fine, but when I lived in a dorm there was an Australian guy who was learning Swedish. I always prefered to speak English with him, and many a conversation that started in Swedish ended in English. It was the same with a South African/Englishman who was actually not that bad at Swedish.
Quote:
I'm from
- the Chech Republic (3X)
- Poland (2X)
- Romania (2X)
- Italy (3X)
- England (3X)
- Bulgaria (2X)
- Turkey (1X)
- Austria (1X)
- Spain (2X)
according to the Germans. They never think of the possibility that I'm Hungarian. LOL!
Based on your name, right?
Loic
Liz:
Well, to be fair, I can always plead that it is grossly unfair for me to be addressed to in Chinese especially if my interlocuter is a native English speaker. Why should we have to resort to the intercession of a foreign tongue when both of us can perfectly chit-chat in our native language?
You know, I once spoke to an Austrian exchange student who held a very complimentary opinion of the German language abilities of Hungarians. He told me that when he nipped across the border, he never had to speak any other language save for German. Maybe he really did mean trapeizing in the frontier regions of Hungary where the inhabitants would probably be pretty savvy with the language of the former Austro-Hungarian empire - I am not sure if he would have encountered a similar scenario in Budapest or somewhere further afield.
Liz wrote:
I'm from
- the Chech Republic (3X) (not because I have a Chech accent but most foreign students are from there)
- Italy (3X)
- England (3X)
- Poland (2X)
- Romania (2X)
- Bulgaria (2X)
- Spain (2X)
- Turkey (1X)
- Austria (1X)
- sometimes I'm from Germany but from a different county (LOL!)
Since the first three countries on the list are from Central/Eastern Europe, you probably have Slavic features which would have led them to such a conclusion. Am I right to say that?
PS: The modern spelling is the "Czech Republic", by the way.
Walker wrote:
How good is your German? I'm sure it's fine, but when I lived in a dorm there was an Australian guy who was learning Swedish. I always prefered to speak English with him, and many a conversation that started in Swedish ended in English. It was the same with a South African/Englishman who was actually not that bad at Swedish.
I have a mate going to Jonkoping for an autumn semester exchange and he revealed that he is obliged to take basic Swedisn lessons as an elective over there - not that he is complaining about it. So, I wonder if he would have any opportunities to put it to good use if English is already so ubiquitous.
But as I told him, a knowledge of the local lingo would probably come in handy when it comes to deciphering public signs. I suppose he would not make the mistake of entering a female toilet and pleading linguistic ignorance as a laughable excuse.
Liz
Walker wrote:
How good is your German?
It's worse than my English but it's passable as I have been studying half of my subjects in German for four years. But it should be better, I think.
Walker wrote:
Based on your name, right?
No, not really - I have an Italian first name and a Hungarian family name. When they made these assumptions, they didn't see or hear me name yet.
- the Czech Republic - not because I have a Czech accent but most foreign students are from there
- Italy - based on my appearance
- England - I was having a chat in English with students who had a thick foreign accent - being compared to them, I may sound English
- Poland - the second largest group of foreign students comes from Poland
- Romania - some people mix up Hungarians and Romanians (Budapest-Bukarest - LOL!)
- Bulgaria - who knows
- Spain - based on my appearance again
- Turkey - I don't know
- Austria - ??? (but they always say Austrians have a funny accent)
- sometimes I'm from Germany but from a different county (LOL!) - when I'm paying attention and not making so many mistakes
Loic wrote:
Why should we have to resort to the intercession of a foreign tongue when both of us can perfectly chit-chat in our native language?
That's true - but in our case (i.e. the Germans and me), English is far from being our native language.
Loic wrote:
You know, I once spoke to an Austrian exchange student who held a very complimentary opinion of the German language abilities of Hungarians. He told me that when he nipped across the border, he never had to speak any other language save for German. Maybe he really did mean trapeizing in the frontier regions of Hungary where the inhabitants would probably be pretty savvy with the language of the former Austro-Hungarian empire - I am not sure if he would have encountered a similar scenario in Budapest or somewhere further afield.
Lots of Hungarians have a near native command of the German laguage. (Of course, it's not me. ) Half of the population (or even more people) have German family names. However, most people of German ancestry only speak Swabian, which is incomprehensible to non-Swabians. (I don't know if there is a difference between Swabian spoken in Hungary and that spoken in Germany, apart from the unusual habit of Hungarian Swabians to occassionally throw Hungarian words into their Swabian speech.)
Loic wrote:
Since the first three countries on the list are from Central/Eastern Europe
Since when are Italy and England in Central/Eastern Europe?
Loic wrote:
you probably have Slavic features which would have led them to such a conclusion.
What features do you think of? What are Slavic features?
Loic wrote:
PS: The modern spelling is the "Czech Republic", by the way.
Right. Thank you.
Loic wrote:
I suppose he would not make the mistake of entering a female toilet and pleading linguistic ignorance as a laughable excuse.
Loic
Liz wrote:
Lots of Hungarians have a near native command of the German laguage. (Of course, it's not me. ) Half of the population (or even more people) have German family names. However, most people of German ancestry only speak Swabian, which is incomprehensible to non-Swabians. (I don't know if there is a difference between Swabian spoken in Hungary and that spoken in Germany, apart from the unusual habit of Hungarian Swabians to occassionally throw Hungarian words into their Swabian speech.)
During the days before Archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot by a young Serbian nationalist, weren't the major urban centres in Hungary primarily German-speaking? I did read that cities such as Prague (Czech Republic, I know) and Pressburg (Slovakia, I know) were centres of German-speaking intellectual life.
Incidentally, is Königgrätz in modern day Hungary? I just know it as the place where the Austrian army was comprehensively routed by Bismarck's Prussia.
Liz wrote:
Since when are Italy and England in Central/Eastern Europe?
Sorry, mea culpa maxima. I jumped straight to Poland and Roumania.
Liz wrote:
What features do you think of? What are Slavic features?
Very good looking features, if the female tennis players from the former Yugoslavia, Russia and a sprinkling of other Slavic countries are anything to go by.
Even the Swiss Miss aka Martina Hingis is of Western Slav origin. She was born in the Czech Republic, I think. And boy is she cute.
But since you are often mistaken for an Italian or a Spaniard, you are probably a brunette. As for your features, why don't you spill the beans and tell us all?
Walker
Quote:
I have a mate going to Jonkoping for an autumn semester exchange and he revealed that he is obliged to take basic Swedisn lessons as an elective over there - not that he is complaining about it. So, I wonder if he would have any opportunities to put it to good use if English is already so ubiquitous.
Oh, really? I have only passed through Jönköping a couple of times, even though it's not very far from here. Yes, they all have to take Swedish, though I doubt your friend will get many opportunities to speak it.
Quote:
But as I told him, a knowledge of the local lingo would probably come in handy when it comes to deciphering public signs. I suppose he would not make the mistake of entering a female toilet and pleading linguistic ignorance as a laughable excuse.
As long as he stays away from the damtoalett he'll be fine!
Liz wrote:
Walker wrote:
How good is your German?
It's worse than my English but it's passable as I have been studying half of my subjects in German for four years. But it should be better, I think.
Let's see...
Quote:
- England - I was having a chat in English with students who had a thick foreign accent - being compared to them, I may sound English
May sound English? You do sound pretty English.
Quote:
- Austria - ??? (but they always say Austrians have a funny accent)
- sometimes I'm from Germany but from a different county (LOL!) - when I'm paying attention and not making so many mistakes
It seems to me that your German is more than "passable".
Liz
Loic wrote:
During the days before Archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot by a young Serbian nationalist, weren't the major urban centres in Hungary primarily German-speaking? I did read that cities such as Prague (Czech Republic, I know) and Pressburg (Slovakia, I know) were centres of German-speaking intellectual life.
Exactly, just like many other Transylvanian Saxonian towns.
Loic wrote:
Incidentally, is Königgrätz in modern day Hungary? I just know it as the place where the Austrian army was comprehensively routed by Bismarck's Prussia.
Hradec Králové (=Königgrätz) is in the Czech Republic today.
Loic wrote:
Very good looking features, if the female tennis players from the former Yugoslavia, Russia and a sprinkling of other Slavic countries are anything to go by.
Yes, there are lots of beautiful girls there, especially among Russians.
Loic wrote:
But since you are often mistaken for an Italian or a Spaniard, you are probably a brunette. As for your features, why don't you spill the beans and tell us all?
Okay, if you want to...But I might give a somewhat false description as I don't see myself on a regular basis. Yes, I'm a brunette (some say I'm a blonde, though, because my hair is light brown), I have dark brown eyes and brownish skin. I'm neither thin, nor fat (some say I'm slim and others that I'm fat - LOL!, so I might be normal) and approx. 1,74 m tall.
Walker wrote:
May sound English? You do sound pretty English.
That's kind of you.
Walker wrote:
It seems to me that your German is more than "passable"
Oh, that's even kinder...
Uriel
Edited.
Benjamin [inactive]
Re: I met a real life Frisian speaker!!!!!
Porthos wrote:
But as usually happens when I encounter the rare person who speaks Dutch with whom I can practice, they often prefer speaking in English! Dutch people always do that!
That's true, actually. I've been in the Netherlands for the past week, and when I spoke to people in Dutch, it usually received one of three responses:
1. They tell me to speak English instead. I tend to assume that they don't necessarily realise that I'm a native English speaker, but that they assume that I'd be able to speak English better than Dutch, and since it's kind of accepted that Dutch people use English when talking to people who aren't native Dutch (or possibly Afrikaans or Frisian) speakers, they do this.
2. They are amazed that someone who isn't a native Dutch speaker can speak some Dutch, and ask me how I learnt it. To be honest, I haven't really learnt Dutch; I just know some of it somehow, and can sort of make it up as I go along.
3. They assume that I speak Dutch completely fluently, respond in completely fluent Dutch, and then resort to English when they realise that I haven't understood them. Except in one case in the Nijntje (Miffy) shop, where I understood what the woman was telling me about duvets for single and double beds.
Liz
Re: I met a real life Frisian speaker!!!!!
Benjamin wrote:
I've been in the Netherlands for the past week
Where exactly?
Benjamin wrote:
I tend to assume that they don't necessarily realise that I'm a native English speaker
They don't realise it? I think they probably wouldn't realise it if you spoke with a Brummie accent! A Geordie friend of mine spent some time in the US and no-one believed there he was English - they thought he was from Switzerland.
Benjamin [inactive]
Re: I met a real life Frisian speaker!!!!!
Liz wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
I've been in the Netherlands for the past week
Where exactly?
Maastricht. We also went to Valkenburg (and also to Hasselt in Belgium and Aachen in Germany whilst we were there, and stopped in Brugge on the way back).
Liz wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
I tend to assume that they don't necessarily realise that I'm a native English speaker
They don't realise it? I think they probably wouldn't realise it if you spoke with a Brummie accent! A Geordie friend of mine spent some time in the US and no-one believed there he was English - they thought he was from Switzerland.
I don't know — what I mean is that they can tell that I'm not a native Dutch speaker, but that they might not necessarily assume that I was a native English speaker when they hear me speaking Dutch, because they often asked me where I was from. I could be, say, Danish or something, lol.
Uriel
Edited.
Loic
On top of the Sydney Harbour Bridge too! I wonder how much she had to pay, but the breathtaking scenery would more than justify the price.
Uriel
Edited.
Liz
Uriel wrote:
You'll have to forgive me, but half of those countries either didn't exist or were called something else back when I learned geography!
