| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| Loic |
If you have a child, what'd you name him?This is a subject which came up during the new year revelry. After the singing of Auld Lang Syne at the stroke of midnight, all of us became suddenly very contemplative of what the future holds for us. Thoughts turned to settling down in the hopefully remote future and the conversation led us to naming conventions and what names we would choose for our children.Have you ever thought about this, even in a passing fancy? I think couples in any sort of romantic relationship talk quite a bit about this, sometimes in jest. For me, I am a bit of a fan of traditional names. Maybe names which would come out from a PG Wodehouse novel like Reginald or Cuthbert or maybe Archibald. Due to the influence of Marian devotion, I also strongly fancy adding 'Marie' as a middle name if I ever have a son. I have my prejudices and I am not really fond of modern nondescript names like Amber or Ryan (I hope nobody here is called that - if so, my apologies!). Gaston reminds me of a chef, for some reason or another. Somehow, I have never given much thought to female names. I think they generally lack character compared to their male counterparts. In fact, most female names are just variants of male ones e.g. Georgina for George or Louise for Louis. |
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| Deborah |
Re: If you have a child, what'd you name him?
"Archibald Marie" just sounds wrong.
Is there a male counterpart to "Deborah"? |
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| Uriel |
I used to like "Max" for a boy, "Russian" for a girl. With my last name, of course (hey, If I'm gonna do the dirty work, i'm gonna get the credit. And I'm the last of my line -- somebody's gotta keep it up.) Now I think I'm tired of them, though, so I need to think up new ones.
(Plus, I already named one of my dogs Russian -- you probably don't want to have to tell your kid that you named them after a pet. Likewise, I have never told my ex's sister that I named one of my other dogs after her .... I don't think she would be that flattered, somehow. But Rosalia's such a pretty name!) I prefer interesting. uncommon names to ordinary ones (mainly because I have an unusual first name that everyone always likes because it's different.) What I despise most is when people name their kids after themselves -- the combination of narcissism and a lack of imagination! |
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| Porthos |
I was thinking of naming a boy "Jesse". Some names I thought of for a daughter might be "Elena", "Isabella", "Esperanza", and a few others, but the rest are too common. | ||||||||||
| Fredrik |
loic wrote:
I'm not sure if little Reginald and Cuthbert would be grateful!  Though Alfred could be nice, it's not that dusty.
loic also wrote:
I totally agree! I have a hard time remembering a female name if it's just some characterless derivation of another name. Uriel: Russian? As in the adjective describing a person from Russia? I have never heard that name before, where does it come from? I think I would name a child after an ancestor or a family member: Boys: Arne - (my grandfather, "eagle" in Old Norse) Ådne - (local form of Arne, pronounced /odne/) Jon-Arne (combined names of both my grandfathers) Lauritz (= Lawrence, my great-grandfather) Jørgen (= George, great-great-great-grandfather) Girls: Kari (= my aunt, the traditional quintessential Norwegian female first name)) Marianne (my great-great-grandmother) Lisa (after my great-grandmother Elise) + Astrid - a very strong Viking female first name (the last d often silent) But if I got a boy I'm not sure I could have resisted presenting my parents with a grandson named Mikkel (= Michael), the charming name of the fox in Norwegian folklore and the name they didn't give to my brother, despite him being born on the very day of Michaelmas! 
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I always imagine giving a daughter a name like Hildegard for some reason, lol. I've never really thought about it for boys. | ||||||||||
| Deborah |
I'd name the kid a safe name -- one that other kids aren't likely to tease her about -- and let her know that she can pick a different name if she wants to. | ||||||||||
| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Names for boys I would strongly consider are Wouter, Rikus, Riegaardt, and Dieter. I also like French/Afrikaans names such as Jacques, Francois, Jean and Louis.
For girls, I like the names Sonja and Karin. I HATE the idea of naming children after their parents or grandparents. It used to be an Afrikaans cultural thing to name children after their grandparents (according to a certain system, the eldest son was named after the paternal grandfather, the eldest daughter after the maternal grandmother, and so forth). So I ended up with my maternal grandfather's names, despite the fact that I never even knew him (he died before I was born). Making up new names can be great, but can also become ridiculous. I actually knew a woman once who was called Eeufesia. Eeufees is the Afrikaans word for centenary, and she was born in the year of the centenary of something or other, so she was named Eeufesia... I'm not kidding!  Imagine a girl named Centenaria...
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| fab |
For a girl I think one of these :
Anais, Fleur, Eloise, Chloé, Elia, Ema, Emeline, Clara, Elena, Fanny, laetizia, Romane, Camille, Juliette, Candice, Pauline, Mathilde, Alice, Emilie, Margaux, etc |
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| Shouga |
I like those names too. |
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| Joanne |
Re: If you have a child, what'd you name him?
Well, it would depend on how difficult my pregnancy was with the little tyke. If it was a nice period of gestation, I would choose Royce or Ethan for a boy, or Olivia or Lila for a girl. However, if I vomit every half hour, or if he kicks me so that my spleen's new location is in my armpit at the end of nine months, I'll name him something horrid like "Aethelbert," or her "Osthryth." 
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| Uriel |
Yes.
I once had a classmate named "Kataliya". As in the orchid. Now there's a pretty name! Another was named "Kismette" (her father made it up, presumable based on the arabic word "kismet"). Also a nice name. I like it when it's obvious that the parents put some thought and personality into a name. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Prénoms féminins que j'aime bien : Marie, Ludivine, Louise, Charlotte, Astrid, Maud, Leïla, Ingrid, Sarah, Emma, Sihame, Suzon.
Prénoms masculins : Marc, Alexandre, Arnaud, Oswald, Thibaud, Youri, Guillaume, Karl, Idriss, Antoine. Why I like is unlikely combinations such as Jean-Kamel. |
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| Deborah |
I also like the name Astrid. Someone else (Fredrik?) mentioned that name.
That's nice. I don't like Joe-Kamel, though. 
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| Icke |
I like the names Hagen and Friedrich for boys and Edda or Hedda for girls.
Ingrid and Astrid are also rather common names in Germany and I suddenly wonder how a Swabian would pronounce Astrid ....Arschtritt?! lol |
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| Loic |
Well Deborah, Old Testament names are often very colourful and unique specimens. What I have in mind are Christian names which are often merely feminine equivalents of existing male names. Names such as Edwina or Josephine spring to mind.
As for naming sons after their fathers, I think it's a peculiarly american phenomenon. I too consider it an ultimate act of narcissism. Simply put, if one is not royalty, there should not be any reason for the son to be literally a spitting image of his father. But well, it is not really for me to choose, isn't it? I suppose the mothers have more say in the naming process and I think Joanne'd agree wholeheartedly with me (Aethelbert, anyone?). On the other hand, would you consider a diminutive as a legal name for your child? Say, Bill in place of William or Liz instead of Elizabeth. |
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| Deborah |
Re: If you have a child, what'd you name him?
"Most"? Are you quite sure about that? Looking through the names people here have listed, there are very few names of that sort. |
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| Deborah |
I would, if I liked the diminutive. In the US it's a pretty common practice to give a girl a diminutive as her official name. |
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| fab |
Si ce type de noms se développaient un peu plus, ce serait signe que la fin du communautarisme et l'avenement du metissage généralisé des populations d'origine "musulmanes" et la population "assimilée". Je trouve ça interressant de "franciser" des prénoms d'origine musulmane. par exemple "Camèl" et "Camelle" pour une fille "Moimède", etc. ces prénoms bien que d'origine Arabe, cesseraient de dénoter une origine perçue par beaucoup comme étrangère, surtout s'il sont adoptés par des personnes n'ayant pas cette origine. Comme c'est le cas aujourd'hui avec nombre de prénoms d'origine juive. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
That's similar to how a lot of 'British Indians' have Indian names, but have anglicised them, at least for informal usage. Here are some examples: Jasbinda —> Jasi/Jaz (i.e. 'jazzy') Rikvinda —>Ricky Dilesh —> Dill Jaminda —> Jamie Harvinda —> Harvey I even know a boy originally from Egypt who's real name is 'Islam', but he calls himself 'Issy' most of the time. However, considering that more than half the people that I spend almost every day with have non-Western names anyway, I tend not to notice whether a name would be considered 'foreign' or not, as Indian and Muslim names are not really 'foreign' for me. |
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| Loic |
How would you anglicise Osama? Ozzy? | ||||||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
LOL! I should mention that it is more unusual for Muslims to attempt to anglicise their names in this way. Those who do what I'm describing are mainly nominal Hindus or Sikhs of Indian descent, some of whom have European names anyway. | ||||||||||
| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Oui, c'est bien de voir des ponts qui se bâtissent sous nos yeux. Pour autant je préfère la graphie Kamel à Camel ; mais des goûts et des couleurs... En revanche je n'aime pas Moimède du tout ! Je préfère Mohamed. C'est vrai que des prénoms tels que Simon, Déborah, Jérémie, Rachel ou Sarah ont pratiquement "perdu" leur origine hébraïque et que, réciproquement, beaucoup de personnes issues d'un milieu juif ou judaïsant ont des prénoms passe-partout comme Patrick, Pierre, Julie ou Véronique. Cette double tendance ne se retrouve pas encore dans les prénoms des personnes d'origine maghrébine. Pourtant je pense qu'elle est avérée, même si elle est diffuse et limitée. Jean-Kamel est un exemple évident. Mais des prénoms tels que Nadia ou Sonia reflètent une sorte de syncrétisme. Et puis il y a des prénoms tellement répandus — Sihame, Bouchra, Fatima, Kenza, Aminata — qu'ils prennent une saveur bien de chez nous. Pour revenir à Leïla, un prénom qui me plaît beaucoup, je n'y vois qu'un exotisme de surface, un peu comme pour Ingrid.
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| Deborah |
It's the same in the US. When I was growing up, having the name Deborah didn't make people think I might be Jewish, even though that was a popular name for Jewish girls. |
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| Loic |
I am fond of Old Testament names and I never see them as intrinsically Jewish. Many of these names have gained currency among the Gentile community to the extent that they have become Christian names.
However, some names still have a strong Hebrew whiff to me such as Solomon, Joshua or Isaac. If such names are sported in Singapore, they frequently belong to conservative Christians. It is a common practice among some people here to adopt a Western sounding name for convenience as well as for fashion. Such names can range from the convoluted (read: Bartholomew) to the more mundane ones such as Faith, Hope or Charity. Bartholomew is too pretentious for my liking while names such as Faith or Hope are too heavy on traditional values for my liking. Are all of you aware that Muslim names are simply variants of their more established Jewish counterparts? Yusuf for Joseph, Ibrahim for Abraham and Sulaiman for Solomon are but some of the many examples of Jewish names which have undergone a metamorphosis in Muslim communities. As for Indian names, the archetypal ones such as Sanjeev spring to mind. If I were to invent an Indian character in a story, I'd name him Sanjeev Kumar. It is no coincidence that the star of the comedy sketch show The Kumars at No. 42 is named as such. Other common Indian names would probably be Raja or Gopal or Shivasithilinggam (a real name of my friend - quite a mouthful, I know. But we call him Shiva for short). Since there is only so much we can talk about the aesthetic quality of names, I was wondering if giving children middle names in your country is a common practice. If so, how many middle names suffice before enough is enough? Since Andre and Frederik mentioned that honouring ancient relatives with their names is an established custom, middle names must be de riguer in South Africa (at least among the white community) and Norway. What about the UK and the USA? How about France and Germany, for example? I am also interested in the surname protocol which Spanish speaking people seem to have whereby they incorporate both the surnames of their father and their mother into their personal name. When Hispanic immigrants settle down in America, do they still follow this practice or do they adhere to the conventional Anglo-Saxon custom of only having the father's surname in the legal name? |
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| Deborah |
That started with the Protestant movement, which rejected the habit of giving children saints' names.
Do you mean all Muslim names?
It is the usual practice in the US to have a middle name. Among my generation, girls almost always had a second "first" name as their middle name, while boys often had another family name as their middle name. If you look at the family tree on my paternal grandmother's side of my family, you'll see new last names cropping up subsequently as middle and even first names. A relatively recent phenomenon among actors in the US is to be known by all three names, or to at least have the middle initial included with the name, e.g., Philip Seymour Hoffman, Vanessa L. Williams. I always thought it was funny that the adult cast members of the TV comedy Home Improvement only used their first and last names, while the kids were listed as Zachery Ty Bryan, Taran Noah Smith and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. I suppose they had to make up for their diminutive size. I only started using my middle initial formally after a banking mix-up involving the accounts of two other women at that branch who had my name. |
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| Uriel |
Actually, the reason many newer actors have to resort to using all three names is because the the Screen Actors' Guild requires that your stage name be unique, so if someone has already snagged the same first and last names that you have, you will have to add your middle name. Or make one up, as in the case of Jennifer Jason Leigh. Or find another last name, as in the case of Michael Keaton, whose actual name had already been taken ... by Michael Douglas.
One middle name usually suffices for Americans. It's a cliche that Southerners always get called by both first and middle -- Billy Ray, Bobbie Sue, Ginny Lee, Bubba Joe, but that's not always so. American hispanics generally drop the practice of having both parental names, and just go with the father's, like most other Americans. Wives usually even adopt their husband's last name here, which is uncommon in most hispanic countries. It's pretty common to give a child their father's last name, even if the parents aren't married (and no longer speak to each other). Weird, but true. I think it may have something to do with establishing patrimony for the purposes of collecting child support. Conversely, I know at least one woman who have refused to even name the father on the birth certificate in order to deny him parental rights (which she gets away with because they broke up early in her pregnancy and she never told him about it -- he is blissfully unaware to this day that he has a child). |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I have a Hebrew name, so naturally I'd never seen them as intrinsically Jewish either. But you're right that some seem more strongly 'Jewish' than others, such as Solomon or Ishmael. However, Joshua is actually a rather common name here, and Isaac isn't all that unusual either, although I'd consider it quite old-fashioned.
Indeed, many 'British Chinese' people here have a Western name in addition to a Chinese name. About 50% of the time, their Western name seems to be James. I've lost count of the number of people I know called James Li/Lee.
It's very common to have one (or sometimes two) middle name(s) in England. Like in South Africa, it will often be the name of an older relative, such as a parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, great-aunt/uncle etc. For example, my middle name is John, after my grandfather's first name; my father's middle name is John as well. Some people, however, prefer to give their children more unusual names, although even then, there will some significance to it. For example, my middle name was originally going to be Jabez, which incidentally was the name of my great-great-grandfather. I also know a white person with an Indian middle name — I don't know the significance of that name, but there must be something. It is unusual to be known by your full name here, unless you want to sound like a 19th century philanthropist. I always think that many of the historical Unitarian figures have great names — John Relly Beard, Frederic Henry Hedge, William Hamilton Drummond, Theophilus Lindsey, to name a few.
I'd never thought of this as an 'Anglo-Saxon' custom, as practically everyone I know from France, Germany, the Netherlands and Poland has only their father's surname in their legal name. |
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| Deborah |
That makes sense, especially if your name is something common, such as Jonathan Thomas. But I think the trend is still to use all three names. One of the more mundane duties of my job at a law firm is doing the merge letters for rejected job applicants. Over the years, I've noticed that more and more people put their full name on their resumes, even when their first and last names aren't common at all. But maybe that's a case of keeping up with the Joneses and the Smiths and the Williamses and the Johnsons.
It was the case with the family of one of my mother's cousins, however. All three of the kids, who were about my age, got called by their first and middle names by their parents. It made me very happy that my mother had dropped her southernisms. |
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| Uriel |
Could be. I can see where using all three names might make you sound more important (good strategy on a resume, until it becomes transparent). Sadly, I don't have a middle name ... I guess I'll never be able to pull that one off! |
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| Loic |
No, Deborah. I didn't mean all Muslim names. I must be very careful with my words - you have a fondness for clarity and precision.
Actually, I can understand why James is a popular name among Chinese. It is also fairly common here and ranks alongside Michael and John as classic names. If you think about it, most Chinese surnames only contain a single syllable and it is desirable that the chosen first name is not too convoluted or complicated in order to strike a positive balance. |
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| Fredrik |
loic:
No, naming children after ancestors is not very common in Norway today, I just like the idea because I´m a history buff. Middle names are not very common either, at least not another first name as a middle name. If you want to combine two first names, both are usually used, with or without a hyphen, as in the names of our mundane Crown Princely couple Håkon Magnus & Mette-Marit). A number of people (myself included) have our mother´s maiden surname as our middle name and use all three names on more formal occassions. Diminutives are also very rarely used in Norway. Their most frequent usage is among boys and male teenagers, strangely enough. |
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| Uriel |
So you wouldn't ever go by Fred? | ||||||||||
| Fredrik |
The diminutive "Fred" would be very unusal in Norway, but I have on occassion been called Freddy or Fedda (the local Stavanger dimunitive), but only by males of my own age.
I think diminutives used to be more common, especially among the bourgeoisie and/or in towns. But today the earnest manner of the serious, silent Norwegian peasants dominates. fab mentioned the name Chloé as a name he liked. Is it just me or are there other people for whom this name is impossible because of it`s coldness and similarity to (water) closet and chlorine? No, give me a nice Fleur any time instead.
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| Deborah |
Ah, I think that may actually be why I've never really liked that name, though I never thought about the reason. The smell of chlorine, for example in swimming pools, has always made me feel a bit sick. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
)
But the practice of naming children after older family members is changing. These days parents mostly opt for a single (shorter) name. This is still often after an older relative (if either of my sisters of brother decided to name a child after me, he would simply have been called Andre, instead of my full names), or a new name chosen simply because the parents like it. * Afrikaans speakers, and to a lesser extent English speakers. Black people have a completely different system of naming children. |
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| Akoni |
Don't laugh but my names are: Anton Leonardus Petrus.
Anton from my grandmother: Anna Leonardus from my grandfather: Leen Petrus from my other grandfather: Piet Catholic families in the Netherlands give names like that. I find it old fashioned and if I had kids I would not give them latin names. They are very long as well. I like Leonardus though, wish that was my first name.
I like English and Scottish names, like Jack or Duncan for boys and Kate and Alanis for girls. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Then why not use it as your first name? My grandmother's real first name is Hilda, but she's always used only her middle name, which is Irene. A lot of elderly women here seem to have names like Hilda/Hildegard(e) and Gertrude; strangely enough, the exact same names are also amongst the most common in Germany for women of the same generation. |
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| Akoni |
90% of the people I know use Akoni; my nickname. Akoni means Anton in Hawaiian. Most people don't even know my real names
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| Deborah |
I had a Dutch ballet teacher named Petrus, many years ago. | ||||||||||
| Uriel |
Akoni is a cute nickname, but Anton is nice, too. My uncle's name is Antone, but of course we call him Tony.
Not sure about the Leonardus....that's a mouthful! Where on earth did you pick a Hawaiian name from, though, since you aren't Hawaiian (unless I'm misreading your location....)? IS there a story there? |
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| Fredrik |
LOL, you should tell the Swabians that the d is either silent or at least not a auslautverhärtetes t, but a d. But it would perhaps still sound a bit assy. Friedrich - way to go! But "Hagen sounds a bit strange, even though it's the German equivalent of the highly royal Norwegian name of Håkon. Perhaps because hagen" means "the garden" in Norwegian!
But as long as you stay away from those awful German names Heinz, Horst and Dieter, I'm happy! Akoni: Nice names! The -us names Petrus and Linus are fairly common in Sweden. |
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| Loic |
Akoni: Are you from the south of the Netherlands?
Jack is a very common name, I feel. Duncan, on the other hand, is an inauspicious name. For English cricketers, you'd know Duncan Fletcher and heartily wish the ECB would sack him. For lit students, you'd recall that Duncan was murdered in his sleep by Macbeth. Not a very charming way to kick the bucket. |
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| Loic |
Fredrik: You know, there is an expensive residential area in Singapore called Queen Astrid Park. I wonder if a certain British Queen consort ever went by that name or was it named in honour of the Swedish monarch, highly improbable it may be. | ||||||||||
| Uriel |
Jack has kick, though. Most of those short names do. And while I think it was historically more common, it is less so today -- I've only met one or two, all older men. I've never met one in my generation.
We had a nurse (briefly) by the name of Ariel. Poor guy! After that horrible Disney cartoon, it became firmly entrenched in popular consciousness as a girl's name, but in Spanish it's a boy's -- as is Uriel, I'm afraid! Both are the names of angels (and Uriel is actually an archangel -- see my avatar  ), and angels are usually thought of as being male. Or at least male-ish. (Even the Ariel in the Tempest, while a fairly androgynous spirit of no particular sex, is always referred to in the play as "he".) They are both of Hebrew extraction, and follow that common -el format: Ariel, Uriel, Daniel, Nathaniel, Ezekiel, Raphael.
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| Deborah |
I don't think I've ever met a Jack of my generation, either. It's funny that a name that was for centuries such an everyman's name in folklore should have died out. I just remembered that one of my great-grandfathers, whose name was John, was called Jack. I only know this because of my mother relating something my grandfather had told her: when he was a kid, his mother said to her husband, "That boy [my grandfather] is wicked, Jack. You got to beat it out of him!" (And my great-grandfather tried his best, which is one reason my grandfather ran away from home at an early age.) |
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| Fredrik |
Proably named after neither a British nor a Swedish queen, but the Swedish princess Astrid, who achieved fame as the Nordic fairytale queen of Belgium and rose to Diana-like status when she died young in a car accident in 1935. Uriel, you right about those short names having kick. Jack sounds very springy to me, perhpas partially because of the jack russel terrier. |
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| Akoni |
I know a Maori from New Zealand and he was looking for a Polynesian name for me. He couldn't find a name for Anton in Maori but found Akoni for Anton in Hawaiian. He then kept calling me Akoni and everyone liked it and started calling me that.
I am, the very south, 30 minutes from the Belgian border.
I really like Jack, short and sounds "powerful".
Duncan Macleod from the Highlander TV Show won every single swordfight
My brother's name is Petrus as well, but he uses Peter everywhere. |
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| Deborah |
So did my teacher. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
My second name (which I never use) is Petrus. Akoni, how does your brother pronounce his name (Peter)? English or Dutch? In Afrikaans "Petrus" occasionaly becomes "Pieter", but Pieter is actually considered a seperate name, not another version of Petrus (which more often becomes Peet). |
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| Akoni |
My brother's name is pronounced in Dutch
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Ah! Funny actually that we've lost that version in Afrikaans 
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| Akoni |
That is indeed funny, you kept a lot of Dutch things, yet some names and words are lost.
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Peter was probably just shortened to Peet. |
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| Akoni |
Some people call my brother Peet, lol, he hates it.
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Then he should never come to SA, everybody will call him Peet!
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| Akoni |
lol, he told me a while ago he'd like to go to SA, I'll warn him about it, lol
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| Icke |
lol, these names are indeed awful, though they are really common here
But for some reason I like the name Fritz which is a shortened form of Friedrich. Akoni: I would prefer Peet to Peter, because Peter sounds so ordinary to me. But then, in the Netherlands Peet may be just as ordinary, I guess. |
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| Julian |
Atticus and Ulrike
Just kidding.
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Hm? I like Heinz (ususally Hein in SA) and Dieter! But Horst is rather ugly!
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| Fredrik |
I think my dislike of Heinz might be coloured by the ketchup brand. I associate Heinz with a gross person who sprays ketchup on anything!
But Hein sounds much better than Heinz. Reminds me of Piet Hein, both the Danish grookist and the Dutch admiral. BTW is Piet Hein's last name just Hein = Hendrik? I think I can like Dietrich, because it reminds me of the legendary Gothic king Dietrich of Bern (Theodoric the Great of Verona), but not Dieter, which sounds like the archetypical German bureaucrat to me! Kurt sounds awful too, I think. A really nice German name is Bruno, I think. I can't understand why some Germans use the Scandinavian Björn, when they already have such a nice bear-name as Bruno! Must be that Drang nach Norden....
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| Loic |
Dieter reminds me of Dieter Hamman.
Most quintessential German names cannot be easily applicable in other cultures as they are not as cosmopolitan and lack an international outlook. I once knew someone in the army who was called Manfred and just as I suspected, he had a German connection - his mother is German. Likewise, I wouldn't expect to see a Singaporean named Wolfgang or Wilhelm unless he has a Teutonic connection. Actually, I think it takes a very brave father to christen his son Wolfgang. I am going to stick out my neck here when I say that I absolutely detest Anke. Sounds too much like Danke. I like names like Nathaniel (thank you for telling me about its origins, Uriel!), Christian as well as those old-fashioned ones I've stated earlier. Eustace is good as well. Basically, they must all sound good with my surname and in my opinion, they all do. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
As far as I know, Hein is Piet Hein's surname. The name Hein in Afrikaans is pronounced the same as Heinz, in other words, the German pronounciation, not the Dutch pronounciation of Piet Hein. Hehe, you won't easily find Afrikaans parents naming their child Bruno, but I have met a few dogs called Bruno! Don't ask me why the name has disappeared as a person's name, but survives as a dog's name...
Kurt usually becomes Koert in Afrikaans. Kurt is considered an English name. |
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| Fredrik |
But what does it mean? |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
I have no idea! We sang the song in primary school, and learned the story of Piet Hein, but always assumed that Hein is just, well, a Dutch surname... Those people have some strange surnames, I'll tell you! Maybe Akoni can tell us more!
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| Fredrik |
Apart from a shortform of "Heindrik", hein might be the Dutch version of German "Hain", meaning grove. That would have made more sense, as Piet Pieterszoon Hein's father was called Pieter, not Hendrik. | ||||||||||
| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Hm. We have the surname Heyns. According to wikipedia, he wrote his surname as Heijn, while some others wrote it as Heyn. |
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| Akoni |
Hein, Heijn and Heyn are just (sur)names. Most Dutch surnames are from the era of Napoleon, before that not many people had surnames. Before Napoleon, only noble people and people with their own farm had a surname. The noble people chose a name so they would be known and the people with their own farm took the name of their farm. When Napoleon came, people usually chose their town, profession or father's name as surname. But there were people who thought surnames wouldn't be used anymore when Napoleon would be gone, so they chose funny names, like for example naaktgeboren (born naked). My surname, Kemmeren, is probably from the English/Scottish Cameron. |
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| fab |
Bruno is not especially a German name. It is widespread in France and Italy too. It has two etymologies one is of Germanic origin (meaning "bouclier") the other is latin, meaning "brown haired". | ||||||||||
| Fredrik |
Ah yes, of course, Bruno has a Latin origin too. But I don't think the Germanic version refers to any shield, but just as the Latin version, something brown. But in the Germanic case not a person, but the brown bear. The euphemism "the brown one" for bear might have had a totemistic background.
When you Dutch say that before Napoleon, people didn't have surnames, I think you mean that they didn't have legal, set, official surnames. You could change your surname at your own whim, though some people must have had a rather set surname even though they wereren't nobles or farmers. Piet Hein's father was also called Hein and was also a captain. I had a look in a Dutch-Dutch dictionary in the university library and saw that "hein" means something like (border) hedge, fence or "hek" in Dutch. This makes very much sense to me, as a fence in Danish is "hegn", pronounced /hein/. |
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| Loic |
I have a question for the Spanish-speakers: Why is Jesus apparently acceptable as a first name? | ||||||||||
| Shouga |
You say that as if it's unacceptable to use Jesús as a first name. |
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| Uriel |
Jesús is fine -- Jesus, not so much....
As Paul Rodriguez once declared: "You know God has to be a Mexican; who else would name his son Jesús?" 
Actually, given that Mary is so popular and that every other Biblical name in existence, right down to the truly heinously horrible Hezekiah, has been perpetrated on some poor English-speaking kid somewhere, it's odd that English-speakers genteely avoid Jesus itself. Spanish-speakers apparently have no such qualms.
What I find bizarre is how many male French-speakers get to have the overtly feminine (to me) "Marie" hyphenated onto their first names. Now that's just weird in my book! |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
That's what always amuses me about Jean-Marie Le Pen — he's a far-right politician with the usual European far-right policies, which don't exactly do wonders for women either (like 'incentives' for women who stay at home etc.). Yet his name would be entirely female in English.
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| Pauline |
This would be weird for you? In Germany they've also this name for boys, for exemple Erich Maria Remarque. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Yes, it would be weird for me, because Maria is almost never used as a middle name for boys here. The other amusing thing is that 'Jean' is a girls' name in English as well. |
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| Pauline |
Here it's very usual to have the name Jean for a boy, often together with another name, for exemple Jean-Philippe. |
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| Loic |
I suppose you forget about the Virgin Mary.
I don't see anything unusual about having Mary/Marie/Maria as a middle name for boys. I have a friend called Simon Mary Wong and it never strikes me as bizarre. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Yes — 'Jean' is the French version of 'John' (English) or 'Johann' (German). |
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| Porthos |
My great-grandmother's name was "Jesus". I think it's hilarious that someone can be so hell-bent on naming their child after Christ that they would even name a baby girl after him, when it's a man's name. lol | ||||||||||
| Deborah |
I was wondering about that, since I've never heard of any official stance on using that name. So I tried getting some information on the subject and I came across this post...
...in this forum: http://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-118597.html I then tried to find out whether this was true, but I didn't find anything else. Speaking of combining masculine and feminine names, I know a French woman named Marie-Pierre. |
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| Joanne |
I don't think this phenomenon is exclusive to the French-speaking world. My stepfather is related to a Colombian writer named José María Vergara y (ummm... er...unfortunately, I've forgotten this part of his surname).
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| Uriel |
Downright bizarre. That poor boy would be teased mercilessly in the US!
I forget no such thing. It's just that usually names are doled out in a gender-specific manner -- even biblical names. [img]I don't see anything unusual about having Mary/Marie/Maria as a middle name for boys. I have a friend called Simon Mary Wong and it never strikes me as bizarre.[/img] Dude, around here, you might as well have just named him Sue -- he would have grown up tough, that's for sure! There is a male vet in town with the unfortunate first name of Allison (which is always feminine) -- I think it's probably no accident that he's a six and a half foot cowboy who specializes in treating cattle...
That is weird. I've heard Jesusita for a woman, but never Jesus. Although Socorro is usually feminine, and we had a male patient with that name once. |
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| Pauline |
Probably he don't care, this would be because he's died: he was author. He wrote for exemple Im Westen Nichts Neues (All Quiet on the Western Front). It's a very sad book 
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| Porthos |
Yeah, to me "Socorro" sounds like a man's name, but there are lots of women with that name for some reason. Maybe it sounds masculine to me because it ends in an 'o'?.... |
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| Uriel |
Rosario is usually female, too, when it's not a last name. | ||||||||||
| Loic |
To you guys, is Leslie a name for boys or girls? | ||||||||||
| Deborah |
In the US, it's for girls, possibly with rare exceptions. I was aware of it as a man's name from an early age, however, because of a dancer in the Royal Ballet who had that name.
One of the tasks my department does for our law firm is generating reject letters to job applicants. We often get either unisex names or foreign (to North America) names whose gender association we often don't know, and whose letters and resumes don't give any clue. In those cases, we're supposed to greet the rejectee by his/her first name, rather than as Mr./Ms. ___. I always spend a bit of time searching foreign baby names online, and usually can figure out the sex. We always appreciate it when someone with a unisex/foreign name is kind enough to put Mr. or Ms. with the name -- not that our appreciation matters a bit to the poor rejected applicant. |
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| Deborah |
loic, do you pronounce "Leslie" as "Lez-lie" or "Less-lie"? | ||||||||||
| Loic |
I think we pronounce it as Less-lie.
It's a boys' name over here. There are certain names I learnt that are unisex but which are seen as exclusively the domain of one sex here. An example would be Dominique which is supposedly a unisex name - it's a male name here. For americans, I believe the hardest names to differentiate are Chinese names. Sometimes, I am also not sure if the person is a male or a female based on just his or her Chinese name alone. |
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| Deborah |
Yes, also Korean. Combination names make it difficult. |
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| Uriel |
We would say Lezlie, and while it can go both ways, it's usuallly feminine. Dominique is not a unisex name here at all -- the -ique ending ensures that it is generally used as a female name. The masculine counterpart would be Dominic -- prounounced -ik, not -eek. Don't know about Chinese names, but Japanese names that end in -ko are pretty easy -- they're usually female. (Ko is a diminuative ending.) A and O endings have nothing to do with gender in Japan -- Akira is a perfectly manly name there. Several Koreans I know have told me that the tradition in Korean families is to choose a common root for each of their children's names and then add a different ending. Thus I went to school with two sisters who were both called Jae -- Jaemin and Jaesook. So you had to say Big Jae or little Jae? I thought I had heard somewhere that this pattern also exists in Chinese families. |
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| Loic |
You're right about the tradition of having a common prefix for some families. In fact, it's a generation thing. In my father's generation, their common prefix name was Jack (a Hainanese appellation of the Mandarin 'Je') so all my uncles' names also begin with a Jack. Not only that, but all the males of that generation who hail from the same village in China would also have their names that begin with 'Jack'.
I once met a man who is 10 years older than me but who insists that I am a generation older than him and so he called me 'uncle'. My generation name was above him by one. |
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| Walker |
Female names: Clara. Alice. Fanny, maybe. You don't want to seem like you're unable to come up with a name, though; a friend of my brother's named his daughter Alice, and my brother has mentioned that he likes Clara. And in all probability he will beat me to it, so to speak. greg mentioned Fatima, although I don't know what he said about it. Anyhow, I think it's nice. It's similar to Fadime which is also nice. If I were to give my daughter a name in the English language Cate and Joanne would probably be pretty high on the list.
Male names: ... uhm, haven't given it much thought. I only know a number of names I would not give to a boy. Here people usually give their children one or two middle names. In my family each of us has one middle name. Having two is a bit excessive in my opinion. Giving your children names of older relatives is, or at least was, common. A friend of mine and his three brothers all have the same middle names after their grandfather: Allan Gunnar. Not very imaginative.
Fedda? Sounds like a hockey player.
Not so common, though. I can't recall any Petrus from any of the schools I went to and you rarely hear that name. And I've only known one Linus.
You said you like the name Duncan, but you must remember: there can be only one!
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| Deborah |
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| Walker |
Yeah, I guess you're right! I once heard of a guy named Dick Cock, although I'm sure of the spelling. But it was pronounced like that. Up until a few weeks ago I had a neighbor called Fanny, and whenever I mentioned her to my sister (who knew said neighbor) I'd call her lustiga + 'surname'. As you might suspect, lustig(a) means 'funny'. I guess it's unavoidable. Actually, klar(a) (Clara) means 'ready/finish(ed)'. Klara, färdiga, gå! is how we say 'ready, set, go!'. Dammit! |
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| Joanne |
Oh, you said "Duncan"...
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| Deborah |
Unless you're an American male whose parents are from Louisiana or Quebec or France, in which case you might end up with the name Dominique (I went to school with one such boy). |
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| Elaine |
Imagine the scandal addressing a Dominique-Catherine as Madame, and she turned out to look like this... 
Dominique-Catherine de Pérignon Anyway, I'm partial to cute, "sun-shiny" names like Daisy, Bree, Summer, or even Sunny for girls. And for guys, I prefer "unadorned" one-syllable names like Jack, Jake, Nick, Frank, Joe, Mike, Heath, etc. I also like the name Diego for some reason. |
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| Uriel |
I used to have a roommate named Summer -- Summer and Eden, in one apartment.... | ||||||||||