Benjamin [inactive]
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L'enseignement en BelgiquePauline,
Parle-nous un peu de ta vie scolaire, s'il te plaît ! 
Quelles matières doit-on étudier à quels âges, particulièrement en ce qui concerne les langues ?
Quels sont les rôles d'un professeur belge ? Est-ce qu'il ne doit qu'enseigner comme en France, ou doit-il souvent faire des autres tâches ?
Merci beaucoup !
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Pauline
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Hallo Benjamin
I will reply you in English because I don't write in french on the internet, but it's not a problem if you write me in frenhc. I will try explain you about education in Belgium !!
The education in Belgium is very diverse, and there are different regions also : Flanders, brussels capitale, Wallonie and East Cantons. The euctaion in Flanders is in Dutch, in wallonie in French, in the East Cantons in German and in Brussels French or Dutch.
Becsuae there are 3 official languages, the foreign langauges will be diferent ones. I'm not sure what are the first / second foreign languages leanred in the other regions. In Wallonie, this depend of your school. There are some different types of school : athénée is for academic study, and there are some other academic schools who are connected with the religion ( mostly catholic ), then there are schools lesser acdemic where you will learn vocational skills, and there are special schools for poeple who have disabilities.
The athénées and catholic schools are teaching Latin and greek, but the other ones don't. In some schools it's obligaotry. I've leanred Latin but not Greek. Then, some schools have obligatory English after, or Dutch. There are other languages you can elect such as German, spanish, Russian, and this depend of your school which are available.
I think that all athénées have the system you chose between languages or sciences. I've chose sciences, and this don't mean that I don't leanr languages, but it's only 4h each week. There are some obligatory subjects : French, Mathematic etc and ones you can chose : economic, geography, etc..
At the schools with vocational subjects, they learn also French, Mathematic, english etc.. but other things : childcare, hairdressing, work with metal, wood etc...
I hope this answered your question
Then the work of a teacher : there are differetn types of teachers. some teachers teach people in the first years at the secondary school, and others teach the oldest people. There are teachers who help you when you have some problems, but if you've many problems then it's not a teacher who help you but another person who visits the school. I think that the job of a teacher is mostly to teach- it's different in England ?The most of teachers teach one subject or two, but there are some teachers who change and teach anoterh thing if there's not one for this subject.
How's your school life ? I know that you've changed school and that you prefer your new one. i find school okay but sometimes boring or too busy and hectic so I would prefer stay at home or go to university because probably it's more interesting. My favourite subject is music, but i learn it not at school but in another place. What's your favourite subject ?
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Loic
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I | Quote: | | will reply you in English because I don't write in french on the internet, |
Even when you are chatting with friends online or when you are replying an e-mail to say, your teacher?
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Pauline
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| Pauline wrote: | | I will reply you in English because I don't write in french on the internet, |
| Quote: | ="'Loic"]
Even when you are chatting with friends online or when you are replying an e-mail to say, your teacher? |
It's not depend of with who I'm writting but because of the internet. I don't chat with friends online, and I don't write my teachers emails. If I must do those things (not often ) then it can be in Ducth, German, Spanish or English but not in French.
Online I will read French or quote what's written by another person because those things are the thoughts of those people, not my thoughts so then it's not a risk. i prefer don't write in French on the computer, but since some months I write it but the internet must absolutly *not* be there and I carefully check this before.
I'm sorry for this, I know it can annoy some people, but I can't take the risk. It's importnat because I need my thoughts for me and if the internt would take them it would be terrible.
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Shouga
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How come you don't write in French online?
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Pauline
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| Shouga wrote: | | How come you don't write in French online? |
Because if I would write in french online the internet would steal my thoughts and take away my ability to speak. If i write in another (foreign ) language then it will be safe because it's not possible for the internt know my thoughts and get in my brain. Sorry if you find this weird. i was told, that it's completelty impossible but I can't take the risk, and I think that it must not cause some problems because I can write in several other languages.
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Shouga
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| Pauline wrote: | | Shouga wrote: | | How come you don't write in French online? |
Because if I would write in french online the internet would steal my thoughts and take away my ability to speak. If i write in another (foreign ) language then it will be safe because it's not possible for the internt know my thoughts and get in my brain. Sorry if you find this weird. i was told, that it's completelty impossible but I can't take the risk, and I think that it must not cause some problems because I can write in several other languages. |
Okay, fair enough. You mentioned that your favourite subject is music. How come?
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Loic
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I see, Pauline. Well, this is a very creative way of tackling the subject of privacy. You must be an intensely private person in real life.
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Pauline
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| loic wrote: | | I see, Pauline. Well, this is a very creative way of tackling the subject of privacy. You must be an intensely private person in real life. |
I would like to have privacy but it seems not possible, unfotunatly.
| shouga wrote: | | You mentioned that your favourite subject is music. How come? |
why : '' how come '' ? It's an unusual favourite subject ? Before, my favourite was sport, but like I told, now it's music. What's your favourite ?
I like very much music of different styles, it don't matter for exemple I like some classical, some dance, pop etc... Robbie Williams, Seal, Chopin and Mozart (piano concertos 2nd movements ), Bach (some things ), Fauré (requiem ). Also some opera, Mahler ( I've heard some beautiful songs of Mahler ) and string serenade by Dvorák, Barber Adagio etc...
I think that I can't explain you why I like music. That's for what exist music : when there aren't words.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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Hello Pauline! I'll respond to you in English, because I find it quite difficult to have a bilingual conversation.
| Pauline wrote: | | I hope this answered your question |
Yes — thank you!
| Quote: | | Then the work of a teacher : there are differetn types of teachers. some teachers teach people in the first years at the secondary school, and others teach the oldest people. There are teachers who help you when you have some problems, but if you've many problems then it's not a teacher who help you but another person who visits the school. I think that the job of a teacher is mostly to teach- it's different in England ?The most of teachers teach one subject or two, but there are some teachers who change and teach anoterh thing if there's not one for this subject. |
I think it's more or less the same here. Generally, teachers teach only one subject, or sometimes two. Some teachers also have to mark registers, generally look after the pupils if they have problems, or run extra-curricular activities in things like music, drama or sport.
| Quote: | | How's your school life ? I know that you've changed school and that you prefer your new one. |
I definitely prefer it at my new school. My old school was very big, had a wide range of abilities, and people often used to behave badly in lessons and at break time. My new school is highly selective on academic ability and the behaviour is much better. I also prefer it as it's an all-boys school, whilst my old school was mixed.
| Quote: | | What's your favourite subject ? |
I'd say that my favourite subjects are French and Religious Studies. I intend to study French and German at university next year.
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Shouga
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I was wondering whether you play a musical instrument, or whether you just enjoy listening to music in general.
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Pauline
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| Benjamin wrote: | | I definitely prefer it at my new school. My old school was very big, had a wide range of abilities, and people often used to behave badly in lessons and at break time. My new school is highly selective on academic ability and the behaviour is much better. I also prefer it as it's an all-boys school, whilst my old school was mixed. |
It's better at a small school, it's my opinion also.
| shouga wrote: | | I was wondering whether you play a musical instrument, or whether you just enjoy listening to music in general |
It would be great but i can play only little bit piano. In the music class we play some different instruments for exemple percussion and piano, but it's differetn that have lessons for learn the instrument. My best friend can play very well violin. Can you play a musical instrument ? You didn't answered my question : what's your favourite subject ?Do you go to school ?
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Shouga
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| Pauline wrote: | | It would be great but i can play only little bit piano. In the music class we play some different instruments for exemple percussion and piano, but it's differetn that have lessons for learn the instrument. My best friend can play very well violin. Can you play a musical instrument ? You didn't answered my question : what's your favourite subject ?Do you go to school ? |
Sorry, I forgot to answer. I play the piano, viola and guitar. I've played the piano for about nine years. I go to school and my favourite subject is probably Music, because I enjoy composing and performing; however, I enjoy nearly all of my other lessons.
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Pauline
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| Shouga wrote: | | I play the piano, viola |
They are beautiful instruments.In the Fauré requiem there's a movement what hasn't violins and the violas have the melody - have you listened / played this ? My best friend plays some nice sonatas and he's learning the mednelssohn violin concerto but it will take many mnths to learn I suppose because it's very difficult.he don't like (want ) to play in an orchestra ( not yet maybe in the fture I don't know ).
| Quote: | | I enjoy composing and performing |
For what instrumentation you enjoy composing ?Performing : it's with an orchestra ? I didn't visited a concert (yet). On the german thread we've discussed music and Fredrik told that he can play violin and greg ( and triorthan i think )can play piano.
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Shouga
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Hm, I don't know Fauré's requiem too well; I have it on my computer somewhere, I'll go listen to it. It's like, 40 minutes long isn't it?
I enjoy playing in orchestras and bands as they improve my performance skills. Both solo and ensemble performances are good for me.
I mainly compose on piano, as it's my main instrument and I can improvise very easily on it. Composing on the viola and guitar is also quite easy; I prefer piano above those instruments, though, as the piano offers more flexibility.
I am a pianist in a jazz band, but I am usually very open to other opportunities. Today I sightread some Christmas carols with a small orchestra in our local church. Next year our jazz band will be travelling to France to perform at Disneyland, Paris.
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Porthos
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Pauline, do you like poetry and language arts? I have a couple of friends who are musicians, and I write lyrics for them, and they write the music.
Here's a rough draft of a poem I wrote about two friends of mine yesterday. This is the romantic side of me no one in the real world gets to see except you people on langcafe, lol. Here it is:
A Forbidden Love
She loves him
He loves her
But do they know what love means?
What it means to be one?
He remembers the sweet taste of her lips
She reminisces of his tender embrace
They are together
They are always together
But it’s but a mere dream
Their hands are stretched out
Longing for the touch of the other
But the distance between them is just too great
The canyon between their lives too insurmountable to challenge
Too young for love they say
Little do they know they say
Infatuation is the name forced upon their inextinguishable enchantment
And yet,
The magnetism their hearts feel is too vigorous
To be expressed in any word but love
For that is what they possess
A flame which cannot be dampened
A passion that cannot be suppressed
A bond that cannot be severed
A devotion that cannot be crushed
She thirsts for the zestful refreshment of the bounty of his love
He aches for the melting away of the burning fire he feels inside
And yet the disapproving voices continue their chanting
Too young for love they say
Little do they know they say
And what can the pair say in response
Other than to contain the raging volcanoes surging away within?
The heart is deceptive
Who can read it?
Only a blind man could not recognize what is clearly evident
And yet
Still the voices of the skeptical ones chant
Too young for love they say
Little do they know they say
And what reply may be given
Other than to wait?
Oh, they have love
That much is certain
But do they have patience?
Can their love endure the test of time?
Only time can tell
Only time can tell
.......... Obviously I wouldn't use the above for a song, but this is just something I pieced together for my own amusement and for my friends. lol
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Shouga
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So you write poetry too, Porthos? I didn't have you down as a poem-writing type of person.
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Porthos
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| Shouga wrote: | | So you write poetry too, Porthos? I didn't have you down as a poem-writing type of person. |
No, I don't think anyone would assume I'm the type that writes poetry. But I actually have a serious and romantic side to my personality, but these are two facets of my personality which nobody ever gets to see, so naturally, no one would ever assume that about me. 
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Pauline
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| Porthos wrote: | | Pauline, do you like poetry and language arts? |
yes, I like poetry.
I find that it's very nice when someone create a persoanl poem, present etc.. so I think that they must be happy with the poem. What your friends have said when you have given it them ?
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Porthos
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My guy friend just laughed and shook his head, while the girl friend was moved and gave me a big hug.
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Liz
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| Pauline wrote: | | Because if I would write in french online the internet would steal my thoughts and take away my ability to speak. If i write in another (foreign ) language then it will be safe because it's not possible for the internt know my thoughts and get in my brain. Sorry if you find this weird. i was told, that it's completelty impossible but I can't take the risk, and I think that it must not cause some problems because I can write in several other languages. |
I don't contribute to Hungarian-language forums for the same reason. It mightn't make sense, but somehow I feel safer writing in English (or in any other foreign language I know) on the internet. I feel that I would give myself away if I used Hungarian. As I chat (only with friends and family), write letters and emails quite frequently, most aquintances of mine can easily recognise my style of writing Hungarian because it's easy to recognise (at least people say so). But there aren't so many people who know how I write English. Only my professors know but they are familiar with my formal style of writing only. I often write here very colloquially, which I would never do at university. Some people can't even imagine me using slang or informal language. Others don't know or don't believe that I speak English at all...
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Pauline
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| Liz wrote: | | Others don't know or don't believe that I speak English at all... |
They don't believe it? It's funny and absolutly stupid!! 
Some peopl find that when you speak another language, it's like you're another person. someone told me this. Have you bit different character or personality when you speak Hungarian than German, or than English? I havn't other personalitys , only one, but the person told me it seem another person. For sure, you can express yourself at a differnet level in another lanagueg, and the style or choice of grammar and words would depend of what you've learned, but in your mother tongue it's a conscious choice.
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Liz
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| Pauline wrote: | | Liz wrote: | | Others don't know or don't believe that I speak English at all... |
They don't believe it? It's funny and absolutly stupid!! |
Yes, it is...There is a common belief in Hungary that who is studying English language and literature at university is:
1. someone who can't speak English at all. Otherwise why would you study English if you speak it already?
2. someone who is only able to speak text-book English, thus is incapable for real-life communication.
Stupid, isn't it? But it's quite common with people who don't have a clue about English as a university subject.
| Pauline wrote: | | Some peopl find that when you speak another language, it's like you're another person. someone told me this. Have you bit different character or personality when you speak Hungarian than German, or than English? I havn't other personalitys , only one, but the person told me it seem another person. For sure, you can express yourself at a differnet level in another lanagueg, and the style or choice of grammar and words would depend of what you've learned, but in your mother tongue it's a conscious choice. |
That's a good question. Honestly, I haven't really thought about that. I think I have no personality whatsoever (LOL) when I'm writing German because my command of German isn't good enough, so I'm not able to use different styles/registers.
English is a bit different in my case. It's the foreign language I'm the most native-like in (but I'm far from being native-like in fact) and I think I can use it more consciously than German, for example.
All in all, I would say I always have basically the same personality, no matter which language I'm using.
I know some people who think it's snobbish trying to emulate native speakers when speaking a foreign language because if you do, you'll adopt the typical mannerisms of them, too, so you cease to be yourself. However, I don't think it's true. For starters, I doubt if there is such a thing as typical mannerisms because it varies from individual to individual. Besides, it is almost impossible to speak a foreign language exactly like a native speaker. But if you don't even try to reach that level, you won't improve your knowlegde and skills.
What's your opinion on that?
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Pauline
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I don't knwo someone who is studying English at university, but I think that the person will speak very well a language if theyre studying it at university!!!
| Quote: | | I think I have no personality whatsoever (LOL) when I'm writing German |
LOL!!!
| Quote: | | I know some people who think it's snobbish trying to emulate native speakers when speaking a foreign language because if you do, you'll adopt the typical mannerisms of them, too, so you cease to be yourself. However, I don't think it's true. For starters, I doubt if there is such a thing as typical mannerisms because it varies from individual to individual. |
i can't reply you what I think abotu this, as I don't know.
| Quote: | | Besides, it is almost impossible to speak a foreign language exactly like a native speaker. |
I agree.
| Quote: | | But if you don't even try to reach that level, you won't improve your knowlegde and skills. |
You must aim for that level I think also; native is the ultimate, and you improve at the most close level to native as possible, but you must be able to accept lesser, without to be frustrated.Probably perfectionists can't accept this.
| Quote: | | What's your opinion on that? |
I don't find it snobbish at all trying to emulate native speakers; at the contrary this must be the aim. When I was told, it seemed i'd other personality when I speak another language, at first i thought that she made a joke or was mcokign but she was serious. After, I've noticed that other people can seem differently when they speak another language,but only if the person is fluent in the other language(s). I don't think that I know about the typical mannerisms; I refer the language.
Excepted when I was told that it seemd I'd another personality in the different lanaguge, I am told somethings of how I speak/write them:
frenhc: very standard without much regional influences; some poepl find this posh.
German: like a little child who make silly mistakes because of the age or not sufficiently concentrating but who know very well the language (said Tiorthan LOL!!)
Dutch: very high level but my own way to express things, sometimes not immediatly clear what I mean.Pronunciation: a mixture of a french accent and Limburg dutch!!! (My teacher was from Limburg in Holland, not from Flanders).
English: French syntax (said Porhtos and Frederik) when I talked with some English people in London they told me my engish is very nice. (English people are very polite )
Spanish: on Antimoon they've asked some months ago if I'm from Venezuela as I use a construction only used there. This w as a surpirse as I thought I'm learning the Spanish of Spain LOL!!
And you? Your English is like native speakers in England - I read that they wrote it on another thread
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Benjamin [inactive]
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I agree that there is too much variation from individual to individual with mannerisms. I mean, could someone really describe certain 'mannerisms' as being typical for 'native English speakers' in general. For example, are my 'mannerisms' necessarily more similar to those of someone from, say, California or Jamaica than to those of someone from, say, Germany? I don't think so.
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Liz
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| Pauline wrote: | | And you? Your English is like native speakers in England - I read that they wrote it on another thread |
LOL! That's nice of them but I don't think so. Yestrday I talked to an English girl who new that I was from Hungary because my friends who are her friends as well told it to her. (What a sentence! LOL! It seems I'm emulating Travis' 10-line sentences. ) She said that she had thought I was at least half English. LOL! I was taken aback. 
Hungarian: Standard Central-Transdanubian...LOL! No, it isn't because my parents are from different regions of Hungary, with origins in Hungarian Transylvania (today in Romania ), Slowakia and Szabadka (today Serbia ). I speak rather standard, pretty "educated" Hungarian with occassional colloquialisms. It's interesting that a lot of Transylvanian Hungarians look down on us because we use much more slang than they do and condemn us for speaking too fast and not pronouncing the words meticulously. I have a good friend here who is a Slowakian-Hungarian guy. We are always laughing at each other because we use different colloquialisms and sometimes we don't understand the word the other one used. It's very funny...we don't even dare open our mouths in front of each other! He is always telling me that I'm so overtly Hungarian Hungarian... He speaks like my cousin who lives in the north of Hungary, where the Slowak influence is very strong.
I hate when people equate Standard Hungarian with Budapest Hungarian. Those folks over there can't speak Hungarian at all... Of course, they can but originally Standard Hungarian is spoken around Sárospatak, here 
in the north-east.
Nowadays the concept of Standard Hungarian doesn't play a significant role as there aren't so big dialectal differences there. Dialects are more or less mutually intelligible and there aren't too many young people who use their regional dialect all the time. Most people can't even speak one - but of course they use regionalisms, nevertheless, they are usually unaware of it and claim to speak "neutrally". Unfortunately, regional dialects are the subject of ridicule these days. My grandmother speaks in a regional dialect. She is a pleasure to listen to because she speaks it so beautifully with a rich vocabulary and I love her accent, too. However, she was often made fun of by her collegues - they kept mocking her accent by pronouncing her name the way she would, but not in an authentic but in an exaggerated way.
German: I'm fluent but inaccurate. I only learnt it three years in the secondary school, then I went to university because my command of German was sufficient for studying in German. However, I still make a lot of mistakes and my vocabulary isn't rich enough.
French: I never learnt it formally but I started to learn it with my parents now. I understand written texts quite well. I listen a lot to French radio and I watch films in French quite often (my dad has almost exclusively French-speaking films). However, I have problems with my productive skills, that's why I write French here very rarely and not much. When I was a child, my mum taught me how to pronounce French words because she learnt it in the secondary school but later she has forgotten it. Now we are learning it together.
Dutch: I learnt it at universtity and found it relatively easy after having learnt English and German. Unfortunately, my teacher moved to Budapest and I can't continue learning it. But now I decided to continue it by myself. I understand a lot but I can't really speak it yet but I hope I will. I don't really have much time but when I do, I read the Dutch discussions here quite often. 
Latin: I learnt it in the secondary school because I wanted to study law later. I understand the words quite easily but I was too lazy to master the grammatical rules well. Besides, I had a horrible teacher - I can still hear his voice...  My granddad is a Latin enthusiast - he is always writing something in Latin in his letters.
Russian: I had a Russian friend, who taught me Russian. Unfortunately, she got married and moved to Budapest. I used to speak it quite well and enjoyed reading in Russian, too but I've almost completely forgotten it. One of my friend is learning Russian and when he says things to me in Russian, I start to remember. Maybe I should re-start learning it again.
Italian: I wouldn't say I learnt it - they tried to teach me Italian. The teacher wasn't strict enough and I was lazy and didn't have much time. Even when I had time, I preferred dolce far niente - what a classic Italian habit! I regret it because it wasn't very hard after English, Latin and French...
Japanese: My dad has lived in Japan and he speaks the language (he claims not to speak it - LOL). He tried to teach me Japan but I gave it up - three writing systems! Nooooo!
I'm going to learn Norwegian from September. I want to learn Spanish, too. I have Spanish ancestry and there are lots of Spanish people here - I regret not to speak their language.
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Pauline
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Liz,
It's an interesting post you wrote, but I meaned what the other peol tell you or how they react when you're speaking those languages, not your evaluation of your knwledge
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Liz
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| Pauline wrote: | Liz,
It's an interesting post you wrote, but I meaned what the other peol tell you or how they react when you're speaking those languages, not your evaluation of your knwledge |
Sorry... 
Okay...I told you about me speaking English...this English girl's opinion seems to be wide-spread...LOL! I don't understand it because I always hear my own foreign accent! 
I also told you something about my Hungarian.
German people have basically two types of reaction on hearing me speak German in the first few minutes - they either think I'm German or they think I don't speak German at all and insist talking to me in English. It's funny but after a few minutes they either realise I'm not German or realise that I'm not Saxonian, so I tell them I'm from Hungary. Funnily enough, those who think I don't speak German because I'm a foreigner are not willing to acknowledge that I speak German even when they experience it. They keep talking to me in English. 
I don't really dare speak French or Dutch to people because I don't really speak those languages well. We (my parents and I) sometimes tell a few sentences in French to our Belgian friends and they always compliment on us having a good pronunciation. Some French people claimed we sounded Canadian French. LOL! Allegedly, many Hungarians sound Canadian French...and Irish English!
Shall I ask Cicero in his heavenly abode to evaluate my Latin?
I was said to have a middle accent in Russian because I pronounced some words like native speakers and some with a thick foreign accent. That must have been funny!
PS: French is another normal language like Hungarian, in which the use of double negative isn't regarded as uneducated but de rigueur. Haha.
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Walker
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| Liz wrote: | | I'm going to learn Norwegian from September. |
Would you care to explain why?
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Liz
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| Walker wrote: | | Liz wrote: | | I'm going to learn Norwegian from September. |
Would you care to explain why? |
Because we have to learn a Germanic language beside German at university. As it isn't possible to learn Dutch anymore , I'm stuck with Norwegian.
Why not anyway?
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Loic
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Liz:
Maybe because Walker wants to know why you have chosen Norwegein over Swedish!
After all, Sweden was once quite a great Scandivanian power. She even used to have colonies. But then again, so did Denmark.
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Liz
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| loic wrote: | Liz:
Maybe because Walker wants to know why you have chosen Norwegein over Swedish!
After all, Sweden was once quite a great Scandivanian power. She even used to have colonies. But then again, so did Denmark. |
Unfortunately, I can't choose Swedish.
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Walker
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| Liz wrote: | | loic wrote: | Liz:
Maybe because Walker wants to know why you have chosen Norwegein over Swedish!
After all, Sweden was once quite a great Scandivanian power. She even used to have colonies. But then again, so did Denmark. |
Unfortunately, I can't choose Swedish. |
From what I've seen on the internet, it seems that almost everybody who's set out to learn a Scandinavian language choose Norwegian. It makes me wonder why. Well, now I know why you are going to study Norwegian.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Walker wrote: | | From what I've seen on the internet, it seems that almost everybody who've set out to learn a Scandinavian language choose Norwegian. It makes me wonder why. |
Funnily enough, I bought Teach Yourself Norwegian (book and CD) the other day; I could have chosen the Swedish or Danish ones, but I didn't. I suppose there were two main reasons why I chose the Norwegian one:
1. The received wisdom seems to be there is greater mutual intelligibility between Norwegian and Swedish/Danish than between Swedish and Danish. I don't know to what extent this is really true though.
2. Norway is the nearest Scandinavian country to Scotland, and the SNP (who are currently in government in Scotland) are always talking about how Scotland must develop greater ties with Norway and about how wonderful Norway is generally.
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Walker
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| Benjamin wrote: | | Walker wrote: | | From what I've seen on the internet, it seems that almost everybody who've set out to learn a Scandinavian language choose Norwegian. It makes me wonder why. |
Funnily enough, I bought Teach Yourself Norwegian (book and CD) the other day; I could have chosen the Swedish or Danish ones, but I didn't. I suppose there were two main reasons why I chose the Norwegian one:
1. The received wisdom seems to be there is greater mutual intelligibility between Norwegian and Swedish/Danish than between Swedish and Danish. I don't know to what extent this is really true though. |
There's some truth to it, I gather. Personally, I always read the subtitles when there's Danish on TV (as do most Swedes I think). I've tried to avoid reading them at times but it's annoying when you're watching something and miss out on what they're babbling about. Of course, reading subtitles is a also habit.
| Quote: | | 2. Norway is the nearest Scandinavian country to Scotland, and the SNP (who are currently in government in Scotland) are always talking about how Scotland must develop greater ties with Norway and about how wonderful Norway is generally. |
Is somebody thirsty for oil or what's going on here?
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Walker wrote: | | Quote: | | 2. Norway is the nearest Scandinavian country to Scotland, and the SNP (who are currently in government in Scotland) are always talking about how Scotland must develop greater ties with Norway and about how wonderful Norway is generally. |
Is somebody thirsty for oil or what's going on here? |
The SNP's idea is essentially that Scotland should become independent and get all of the UK's share of North Sea Oil. Actually, the discovery of oil in the North Sea was what originally brought the Scottish independence movement into the mainstream, giving the SNP their first 'heyday' in the 1970s.
Norway also acts as an excellent model to the SNP for how (they believe) an independent Scotland could potentially be. It only became independent relatively recently itself, it has a roughly similar population to Scotland, it's near to Scotland, it has the second highest GDP per-capita in the world, and has one of the highest (if not the highest) standards of living in the world (in contrast to Scotland, which has one of the worst in Europe) etc. The main difference however is that the SNP are strongly pro-EU, whilst Norway isn't even an EU member state.
Equally, the SNP would probably like to see an independent Scotland distance itself somewhat from England — and the new Scottish Executive are already attempting to do this. It's no secret that many people in the SNP are essentially wannabe Scandinavians anyway, so I suppose that an orientation towards the Nordic Countries would be their ideal 'alternative outlook' for Scotland.
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Porthos
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| Quote: | | Equally, the SNP would probably like to see an independent Scotland distance itself somewhat from England — and the new Scottish Executive are already attempting to do this. It's no secret that many people in the SNP are essentially wannabe Scandinavians anyway, so I suppose that an orientation towards the Nordic Countries would be their ideal 'alternative outlook' for Scotland. |
Why are they wanna-be Scandanavians?
| Quote: | | it has a roughly similar population to Scotland, |
What makes you say this? I'd say the Scots are most like the English and Irish, and not the Scandanavians.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | | Why are they wanna-be Scandanavians? |
For the reasons I described above. They view the Scandinavian countries as examples of what an independent Scotland could be. (Alex Salmond, the newly elected First Minister, made a whole pre-election broadcast talking about how wonderful Norway is).
| Porthos wrote: | | Quote: | | it has a roughly similar population to Scotland, |
What makes you say this? I'd say the Scots are most like the English and Irish, and not the Scandanavians. |
I meant in terms of population size. Scotland has a population of about 5.1 million, and Norway has a population of about 4.7 million. It's similar. And additionally, they're not so far removed from each-other in terms of location or way of life — I actually think it's quite appropriate that the SNP look to countries like Norway as an example of what an independent Scotland could potentially achieve.
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Walker
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| Quote: | | ...and get all of the UK's share of North Sea Oil. |
This would make their neighbors pissed off, would it not?
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Liz
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I would never have thought that the very idea of me planning to learn Norwegian would trigger a political discussion, involving issues of the SNP as well.
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Porthos
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| Quote: | | Funnily enough, I bought Teach Yourself Norwegian (book and CD) |
I wonder how difficult it would be for an English speaker to learn a Scandanavian language. When I read a text in one of the Nordic languages, I can hardly recognize a single word, and it appears to be so different. Yet, their syntax seems to be a lot more like English than Dutch or German, so translating word for word should be less difficult. Would this fact alone account for the greater degree of difficulty involving a very different lexicon?
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Benjamin [inactive]
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If you look through the Teach Yourself Norwegian book for ten minutes, you'll quickly discover that the vocabulary is nowhere near as different from English as you seem to think.
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