| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| Benjamin [inactive] |
Political CompassI seem to remember that we did this about a year or so ago, and considering that we have so many new members, perhaps we might like to do it again.Take the test here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire Then post your results on this thread! Economic Left/Right: -9.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.79 Well, apparently I'm an arch-communist and also quite an extreme social liberal. Apparently, my views are most in-line with the UK Green Party and the Socialist Party USA, and also with Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Bartòk (a Unitarian!) and Prokofiev, but I still seem to be more extreme than all of them. |
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| Porthos |
These were mine
Economic Left/Right: 1.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.18 |
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| Pauline |
here is what my results were :
Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -4.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.33 |
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| fab |
Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82 Actually I find this classification much better than the pure left/right opposition. If we follow the results I am quite leftist. In the French political scale I always considered myself as a centrist, not really leftist... I think that even Chirac would be considered leftist in this scale ! |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Well, I hadn't realised that my views were considered so extreme until I did that quiz, lol. It appears that I am left of the left.
I suppose it's also important to remember that this scale is done by the standards of mainstream politicians, who in the West today perhaps tend to be further to the economic right and more socially authoritarian than the general population. (It's a totally different game once you actually get some power). |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
No. Jacques Chirac is here: 
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| fab |
I tend to think it has to do with the difference between European and American left-right scale (at least if compared with France). The american moderate left (democrats) ideas are those of the moderate right in France. The French moderate left would be considered as communists by most American standards I think. |
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| fab |
Mmmm... I don't think the way he is placed on the scale is the result of the test ! If he answered it he surely not being at this place. |
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| fab |
I should be closer to the dalai Lama I think !!
I think the problem of the test is that it ask our values and ideals, but we aslo know that the reality has its own expectation with what we have to deal with. and so make a compromise with our ideals. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I bet he would, you know. The whole lot of them are over in the neo-liberal/authoritarian sector. They're all the same, you know. 
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| Porthos |
Yes. In a nutshell, that is correct. Britain is also a little more right oriented than the continent. But, Bill Clinton, who is considered by many to be left wing on the American scale, would probably be closer to the far right side of the spectrum in France, at least on economic aspects that is. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
The same is also true for Poland and some of the other Eastern European countries. And let's not forget the former Prime Minister of Italy, Silvio Berlusconi (he was on that scale last year, and he was right up there with George W. Bush). |
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| Deborah |
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.21 So I'm a left-wing libertarian. |
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| Loic |
I think I fit into the mould of a classical liberal.
Economic left/right: 1.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.67 |
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| Joanne |
Economic Left/Right: 0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.67 As I expected. No wonder I have so much trouble choosing political candidates come election time... 
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| fab |
Yes, it is true that in italy the berlusconian right was very economically liberal and tended ti eutoritarism. But the fact is that the right/left compass is more similar to what we have in France. Britain is in Europe an exception for the economic position of the moderate left (Tony Blair labor), which would be considered as economically very right in Italy. We just have to compare the Italian moderate left (romano Prodi) with the British miderate left to catch the difference. Also not to forget that in Italy, as in France the communist party was traditionally very important until the seventies. |
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| Tiffany |
This is funny as my husband and I were just having a discussion about the differences in left and right between America and Italy. He gets confused because at times it seems we have different definitions for the words, but we don't. You just have to look at it in perspective.
Here are my results: Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38 Ok, apparently I'm Left and Libertarian. Now does someone want to explain to me what it all actually means? Apparently I'm leaning towards communism and anarchism... Maybe not as much as you, Benjamin, or you Deborah, but somewhere. Looks like my views are mirrored more closely by Pauline and fab's. What does centrist mean to you fab? |
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| Tiffany |
Communism is still important in Italy. My sister-in-law is communist, and it seems most of her generation are too. Everybody in her age range that I know voted enthusiatically for Prodi. The older generation (her parents) mostly voted for Prodi too, but only as the lesser of two evils (Berlusconi being a great big evil that could not be ignored). Her grandfather (also my husband's grandfather) is very anti-communist, and goes around yelling things like "I comunisti mangiano i bambini!" I find it highly amusing to see her hold her tongue around him, out of respect and love. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
But on the other hand, Tony Blair will still be considered rather left-wing in the United States. And it's not accurate to say that he is considered as 'moderate left' here, despite Labour's traditional position — it's generally accepted that he is essentially a centre-right politician. As you can see, the main paries here are all economically right-wing, except for the Greens and the 'far-right' BNP: 
And this one seems to suggest that the Conservatives are now less authoritarian than Labour: 
But then again, if you look at Germany's, it's not really that different: 
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| Loic |
Both of us are quite moderate in outlook. The sort of conservatism I espouse is a tolerant, open-minded and sceptical kind. In general, I think English-speaking countries place greater faith in deregulation and we by and large trust Adam Smith's invisible hand in the allocation of resources. |
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| Loic |
Tiffany: I am also very anti-communist. I cannot imagine why people still support communism as a creed and make lame excuses for it by saying that it was an ideology which had good intentions but was poorly executed.
People said that Karl Marx and Frederik Engels were both economists of their day. If that were the case, their understanding of political economy was perfectly imperfect. |
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| Sander |
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03 |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Will anyone beat -9.75?  Lol, perhaps I was a bit over-idealist when I answered the questions — I certainly wouldn't see myself as someone who is genuinely sympathetic towards communism, even though I know people who'd see themselves that way.
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| KSa |
Yeah, communism is still popular but only in countries which never experienced it. I cannot still understand why - keeping in mind that in all cases communism brought only death (more than one hundred millions casualties), fear, humiliation and poverty. |
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| Tiffany |
I wouldn't say I supported communism either, but I guess I am more socialist than you. |
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| Porthos |
I believe in Communism, passionately. Communism will fulfill its promise to make everyone equal, and it always does. Everyone is equally *poor*, or perhaps "destitute" is a better term.
The English speaking countries tend to be more right-wing oriented, and liberal in the classical sense, especially on economic issues. Government share of the GDP is almost always lower in English speaking countries. The U.S. is an extreme example. I would say that Britain's overall political orientation is somewhere between the continent and the U.S. And in many ways, it has maintained a closer relationship with the U.S. than with the EU, being one of the most Eurosceptic nations in Europe. The Reagan-Thatcher movement would never have taken place in somewhere like Germany or France. I myself am a Centrist by U.S. standards. The group which most accurately espouses my views are the "New Democrats", which are the right-wing side of the Democratic party. On an international level, I would probably be considered right wing, but in places like the American south or midwest, I would be called a leftist, maybe a pinko. I believe in stronger public investment in education and civilian R&D and public infrastructure, as well as a universal healthcare system, but I also favor relatively small government, with low taxes, particularly taxes which punish savings and investment, like the capital gains tax. On a social level, I lean more towards libertarians than I do authoritarian rightists. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
So it seems I'm your typical pinko...
All in all, I feel more at the center-right than on the left. Economic Left/Right: -6.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13 |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
How come ? |
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| Deborah |
I wonder what I could have answered that makes me out to be such an anarchist? I certainly don't think of myself that way. | ||||||
| Elaine |
Moi:
Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31 I thought I'd be further left. 
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Re: Political Compass
Green ? 
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| Porthos |
"Communist" is a word that has been so miserably distorted. I am not saying this in defense of communism, as I'm a total capitalist, but in all fairness, it is a word that has really lost its original meaning due to the radical, authoritarian practices of communist parties, who are in reality, just in favor of state-capitalism, or "socialism". | ||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
Re: Political Compass
The Green Party of England and Wales (not of the UK, I apologise): http://www.greenparty.org.uk They got about 1% of the vote in the General Election last year, but they have had slightly more success in the local elections and in the European Parliament elections. |
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| Loic |
Greg: Communism is an unworkable idea because it comprehensively fails to recognise one primary source of motivation - the desire to keep up with the Jones. It is the idea of inequality that spurs people on to climb the social ladder. The free market promotes competition and eliminates the weak who really have no business surviving in the first place. | ||||||
| KSa |
Tiffany: Communism and socialism are two completely different things. In communist countries socialists were usually the first category designated for persecution. |
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| Loic |
Name me one successful communist state in the world and I'll eat my best Sunday hat. | ||||||
| Porthos |
There has never been one communist state in history! There have been plenty of socialist states, yes, but never has there been a communist one. "Communism", in its original meaning, is simply the last stage of political development in Marx's theories on political evolution. After capitalism has been removed, and all production and services are owned by the state, the state is supposed to gradually wither away, as all that is left, is the community, who work together (rather than compete) to fulfill society's needs, by means of public ownership through the community, and collective effort. Of course, this is a radical, utopian dream, but this is the end goal of all socialist revolutionists. The problem with Marx is that he overlooked one key component of human nature, and that is greed. He should have known that once revolutionary leaders came to power, they would be forever reluctant to abandon their positions of authority. So, in the real world, the communist revolutions never get past the first stage of development, as the leaders of the supposedly "interm" government refuse to relinquish their power. The result is an oppressive, authoritarian regime, (needed, according to Marx, to establish a communist society, but only as a temporary resort), and stagnant economies, where the mass of the population is practically equal, but equally destitute, and lacking in the most basic liberties. | ||||||
| Fredrik |
My score:
Economic Left/Right: -7.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87 So I ended up as a Liberal Leftist, like most of you. Too bad, I had hoped for Authoritarian Leftist, which is what is closer to my heart, though not to my realistic outlook. BTW I think the test could have done with a global/local aspect, too. I want to severly limit, restrict and limit multinational corporations on a global level, but not necessarily the small one-man business next door. |
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| Tiffany |
They share similarities as communism is a form that evolved from the broader socialist movent. I however, never said they were the same, though I'm not sure how anyone could say that they were completely different. What are you reasons? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism |
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| Loic |
The reason why communism continues to hold such a powerful sway over people boils down to its romantic image: communists were seen as iconoclasts fighting against big vested interests. They were underdogs struggling against the bloated entrenched privileges of the unfeeling haute bourgeoisie. All of us have a natural tendency to sympathise with the underdog, but I stress that our sympathy is misplaced here.
Socialist realism, my foot. Monstrous realism, more like it. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Re: Political Compass
Actually I meant « Green ? » in the sense of « Are you sure it isn't red instead ? ». 
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
I have to confess I haven't read Marx but I doubt our dear Karlchen was that scatterbrained... or was he ? 
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| Walker |
And here's my result:
Economic Left/Right: -5.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72 |
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| Porthos |
Wow, compared to most of you guys, I'm a raving right-wing nutjob. My test score is far removed from the average on this forum. Here, I would be considered a Centrist. In Europe, I would be right wing. | ||||||
| fab |
That's funny, because generally in France most teenagers are really left-wing, even extreme-left-wing. When I was your age I was interested by trostkism, but growning up I changed my positions, and even if I believe to theses ideals, I don't think that is the right way to reach them. Now I consider myself as a centrist, or even right-centrist. |
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| Porthos |
I am a practical minded person, so I don't believe in idealist/utopian dreams the way most teenagers do, who are in a rebellious stage, who want to "challenge the establishment". I set boundaries for myself, and I only believe in what is realistically possible. For that reason, I haven't fallen prey to the extreme left-wing liberalism which many intellectual teenagers fall victim to, only to see the light in their late 20s, or early 30s. | ||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
What exactly do you understand by 'left-wing liberalism'? Do you see 'liberalism' as a left-wing ideology, or something which can be either right-wing or left-wing? | ||||||
| Porthos |
Well here in America, "liberalism" is an alternative for left-wing. So, if we say somebody is a "liberal", we mean that they are "left-wing". A "conservative" is someone who is right wing. I am in between, but if I were in the south, or the midwest, I would be left-wing by their standards, while in Europe, I would definitely be right-wing. | ||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
Okay, but surely a left-wing ideology isn't exactly 'liberal', because you're advocating greater government regulations and controls on businesses. | ||||||
| Porthos |
I agree, the terms aren't exactly an accurate representation of reality. But, left-wing is called "liberal" because they have a socially liberal philosophy, although greater government control and regulation of the economy is not very "liberal" in my opinion. They're mainly just liberal on social issues. But again, the left wing favors gun-control, and that is not liberal either. They are just called liberal, because they are progressive, versus being conservative in the sense that they don't stick to the standard conventions or the status quo, but rather, espouse change or "progress", so that they are liberally minded. Conservatives on the other hand, usually want to keep things the way they are. They are traditionalists. | ||||||
| fab |
It is the exact inverse in France, where "liberal" reffers the right-wing, the right wing that want a deregularisation of the economic rules. In France, we can say that even the moderate-right is not really liberal in that sence (CF Chirac). Most of the time the "liberal" are also very conservative on other points such as family, immigration, morals, etc. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Well here, the words 'conservative' and 'liberal', in a political sense, tend to be associated with the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrat Party respectively. So, it really depends on what they're doing, which seems to change rather a lot.
Correction: What the Labour Party is doing seems to change rather a lot. It always seems strange to me that the people who want a more deregulated economy with lots of economic freedom often also want to regulate what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. David Cameron, the new leader of the Conservative Party here, seems to be going against that trend though, as he has spoken in favour of gay unions (amongst other things). |
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| Loic |
In my opinion, David Cameron should not even have pushed for legislation that covers homosexual unions. But I am not suggesting that he seeks to criminalise it either. He should not have care either way and adopt a purely neutral tone as what two consenting adults do is frankly none of the government's business.
I have never recalled being left-wing although I flirted with socialism very briefly in my early youth. However, these liaisons were superficial and consisted of admiring the guts and determination of leaders such as Mao Tse Tung or Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin). I have always liked to buck the trend, though. There is nothing worse than believing what your friends also hold dear to their hearts. You become a mindless cow incapable of thinking for his own. I still remembered my evolving stance towards the Israel-Palestine crisis: I started out being pro-Palestine and only became pro-Israel in convictions after realising that people around me are all uniformly sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. So you'll never know what my true colours are. I can be pro-Palestine in an anti-Palestine clique; pro-Israel in an anti-Zionist group. Since Langcafe seems to be generally sympathetic towards Palestine, I stand firmly on the side of the Star of David. |
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| Fredrik |
And I stand firmly on the side of St. Francis of Assisi: Fuck the Holy Land and its attention-seeking inhabitants of both camps.
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Which is OK. As for me, since reality favours Israel, I stand firmly on the side of Palestine. I support Palestinians also because their cause is noble and their condition alarming.
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
You know, I've been sympathetic towards Israel for many years. But recent events have made me rethink my position, and at this stage my sympathy certainly lies with the Palestinians. |
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| Uriel |
Hmm, did Francis of Assisi really say that? And he seemed like such a mild-mannered guy... 
I'm with you on that one, Fredrik. I can't muster up much sympathy either way. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Well, I don't think he put it in exactly those words... 
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| Fredrik |
True, not exactly those words, but St. Francis personifies how Europe gave up the mad idea of re-conquering the homeland of Jesus and in the process started to relinquish the totemistic belief in the sacredness of the ground Jesus had walked on and instead started worhsipping the idea more than the thing itself. Because when St. Francis had returned disappointed from a Crusade/Pilgrimage to Egypt and Palestine in 1220, he celebrated the following Christmas by setting up the first crèche, crib or Nativity Scene in the town of Greccio near Assisi (with real animals!). | ||||||