| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| fab |
ratatouilleWe see adverts for the new pixar movie in streets now. I was asking myself how is understood the name of that movie in English ? is the dish famous and know by everybody ? |
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| Porthos |
I actually wanted to see that movie, but none of my friends wanted to see it.
Here it's pronounced (rat-o-too-ee). |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Re: ratatouille
Yes, at least in England. It's something that people eat all the time here. |
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| Porthos |
I've never had the dish, so I wouldn't know. Of course I don't know much about French cuisine other than eating at a couple French establishments here, which as we discussed Fab, are always the ultra-fanciful sort found in posh districts. | ||||||
| Deborah |
I've been very fond of ratatouille since I was introduced to it in 1970-something. However, the recipe was from a then-popular book about going vegetarian called Diet for a Small Planet, and garbanzos (chickpeas) were added, to provide protein. But I've had (and cooked) the traditional version many times. | ||||||
| Deborah |
Oh, and as for how well it's known, I'd say all my friends know what it is. | ||||||
| fab |
It is a traditional "dish of the poor" made of vegetables (as many are at the origin!) originary from Nice region. usually it is one basis accompagnement of meals in summertime : 
Since this topic is about food and especially ratatouille, are other dishes originary from Nice and Provence region famous in your countries ? such as, among the most famous : - Aïoli (which is in fact the name of the garlic mayonaise) 
- petits farcis 
- the very famous salade Niçoise 
- and its sandwich version : Pan Bagnat 
- la pissaladière (sort of onion pizza without tomatoes) 
- la socca (sort of big crepe made with pees) 
- la tapenade (preparation with black olives generally eaten on toasts) 
etc. |
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| fab |
that was the question I was asking to myself. it found it strange for the name of a American movie because I expected the name was unknown. |
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| Deborah |
Salade Niçoise is known (yum!). I think aïoli and tapenade are pretty well known in San Francisco, although I expect most people would only know the mayonnaise part of the aïoli. For example, a music club & restaurant that I used to go to served fried Yukon Gold potatoes (a variety of potato that is yellow) with aioli, which was incredibly delicious.
I've only seen pan bagnat and pissaladière on Jacques Pépin's TV cooking show, and this is first I've heard of la socca. As for the petits farcis, stuffed vegetables have been popular for a long time, though not necessarily prepared exactly as they would be in Provence. |
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| Julian |
Ratatouille (ratatouia nissarda/ratatolha niçarda, just to throw in a little lesson in Oc) isn't usually served in the finer French restaurants here. It's a little too pedestrian for the posh palate. Ratatouille and fois gras??? I don't think so!!!  Although in restaurants serving Cajun cuisine, a spicier version prepared with meats like ham or smoked sausage can usually be found on the menu. Macarèl!
I think the most commonly known dish from Provence (more specifically Marseille), is bouillabaisse (bouiabaissa/bolhabaissa). 
Click to see full size image I love aïoli, although it's not too common here. There's an Argentinian restaurant near my house that serves the best meat empanadas in town, served with basil aïoli dipping sauce. Yum! 
Click to see full size image Other foods from Provence: Daube 
Click to see full size image Broufado 
Click to see full size image Bourride 
Click to see full size image Pistou, commonly known as pesto 
Click to see full size image Soupe au pistou 
Click to see full size image Anchoïade 
Click to see full size image Aigo-boulido 
Click to see full size image A popular dish from across the Rhône -- cassoulet 
Click to see full size image Of course, a Provençal meal wouldn't be complete without... Pastis! 
Click to see full size image |
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| fab |
and if we follow the traditional cliché, Pastis wouldn't be really pastis without pétanque ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW49jO73K0w |
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| Julian |
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| Uriel |
Well, "Ratatouille" is a clever pun on the fact that the movie's about a rat, who likes fine food, and it's set in France (that's an obviously French word). All three bases are covered with just one word!
As for the dish to which it refers, I think most Americans would have a vague idea of what it is, and would have been exposed to its pronunciation (although the posters make sure to provide a phonetic transcription ... which adults can pretend is aimed at children )
Bouillabaise is another term we would be familiar with, sort of, and aioli is regularly referred to in restaurants and cooking magazines. We ain't all barbecue 'n burgers, you know! A friend who loves the stuff once made it for a dinner party. I'm not a big seafood fan so I wasn't that impressed, but it was a hit with everyone else. (Her sushi and tempura are to die for, though -- but that's another story.) Salade nicoise is another one we've all probably at least heard of, if maybe not eaten. Your aigo-boulido looks suspiciously like our "French onion soup", which is immensely popular and found all over the place. My dad makes a killer version of it that I worship. Next time I eat at his house, I should ask him to make it.... yes, I'm drooling like Homer Simpson right now! Tapanade is becoming fairly popular. My mom makes it. It's ... interesting. I usually hate olives, but ground up and mixed with other ingredients they aren't bad. Pesto we have all over the place, of course, although we think of it as an Italian dish. Exclusively Italian. Anchovies are well-known, and I even know a guy who loves them on pizza. (Ugh!) Cassoulet I've heard of, and know it has something to do with beans. I assume ham hocks may also be involved. The rest of the dishes you mention I personally have never heard of, although I can't speak for the whole country.
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| fab |
In fact yes, Pesto is Italian. But not Pistou. What we refer in Provence is Pistou, which is almost the same, but a lightly different reciepe. (Pistou is made without pignons and cheese is facultative, unlike Pesto) Pistou is generally refered to the soup that is made with it: "soupe au pistou". but it is not surprising that both are similar since Pesto is from Liguria, the bordering region that follows the french riviera. So, on one side Pesto, on the other Pistou... ;) 
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| Porthos |
Hmm, that's interesting. I LOVE pesto. I make a mean garlic chicken and pesto pasta dish. I make the pesto from scratch, using my super-powerful blender. Lol. It's one of the few things I know how to cook, because I'm just lazy when it comes to anything in the kitchen. It's interesting that you use the French word, pignons. In Spanish we say piñones, and I actually often forget the English word for them. That would serve the argument for classifying my speech as "Chicano English". I also always forget the English equivalent for potatoes, corn, handtowels/washcloths and a few other words, because I normally use the Spanish equivalents at home. Does this mean I speak "Chicano English"? |
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| Porthos |
And I don't know much about Spanish or French food, but from what I do know of it, I gather that it's very different from Italian cuisine. French and Spanish food don't seem to be nearly as good as Italian. | ||||||
| Deborah |
When I spent the summer in Europe in 1970, my family mostly bought food in grocery stores. But most evenings, we ate at an inexpensive restaurant. At least in my experience, all those years ago, if you had to eat in cheap restaurants, French cooking beat everything else. It was not, of course, haute cuisine, and maybe we were just lucky, but just the quality of the food was excellent. I didn't have such good luck in Italy. In Spain, we ate in restaurants less often -- we were probably running low on money at that point -- but the quality seemed to be between French and Italian. When I was in Italy in 1980 for a few days, again, I didn't have good luck in cheap restaurants. However, at least in the US, Italian is definitely my favorite of the three. |
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| Uriel |
[img]It's interesting that you use the French word, pignons. In Spanish we say piñones, and I actually often forget the English word for them.[/img]
You mean it's not "piñon"?  
"Pine nuts", I think, is what our eastern kindred call 'em.
Mmmm, nothing beats an elote with butter, lemon juice, sour cream, and cheese on it....I pass on the chile powder, though. Every fair I go to, and every flea market I visit, I eat one! 
Italian food is wonderful, but nothing beats French food, Porthos. Nothing. I could literally eat myself to death in France! And it's not just the restaurant food that's good -- even out of a can it's divine! My dad heated up a can of lentil soup one day -- lentil soup, ugh! -- and I figured, well, I'll eat it to be polite. I tell you, I licked that bowl clean! Incroyable! |
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| Porthos |
Pinones is the plural form of pinon. And yes, I know they're called pine nuts, but I didn't learn this until a couple years ago when at a restaurant I asked, "What are pine nuts?" |
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| fab |
I thought you were once being working in a resteurant that serve French italian and Spanish cooking ? [quote] but from what I do know of it, I gather that it's very different from Italian cuisine.
I |
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| Uriel |
No, I know piñones is the plural -- we grow tons of them here -- the joke was there was actually another word for them?
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| Deborah |
The first foreign word I learned for pine nuts was pignoli. But that makes sense, since, in the 1950s, San Francisco still had a thriving Italian district (North Beach). | ||||||
| Julian |
The strange thing about Italian food is when I dined in Italian restaurants in Milan, Florence, and Rome, and ordered food that I was familiar with back home, they all seemed to be lacking in flavor and I was shocked at the scant ingredients they put in their pizzas and pastas! I've had better food at the Olive Garden! It wasn't until I got to Venice that I had a seafood feast that satiated my deprived palate. Dining in France, however, was an entirely different experience. Everywhere I ate was like a celebration of the senses! 
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| Deborah |
I agree about the pizza and pasta, but then they they don't play nearly as important a role in Italian meals as they do in restaurants in the US.
True. And on that trip in 1970, we were eating at the cheapest places, or at least the cheapest ones that my mother thought looked appropriate for a family to eat in. In those days, the exchange rate was 5 francs to a dollar. Somewhere en route from Paris to the Mediterranean, we had an excellent prix fixe meal at a roadside restaurant for 4 francs. |
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| fab |
Times seems to have changed !! For 4francs (about 0,7 Euros) you can eat nothing. Even croissant and pain au chocolat are about 1 Euro at least... A meal is a minimum of about 8 Euros (50 Francs)
Spanish food is very good and varied too, in the different region. concerning Spanish popular food you canno't forget tapas, which, more than a specific kind of food are a specific way to eat. Tapas are often made with the tipical best Spanish products: mainly sea fruits, ham, moutain cheeses, potatoes, olive oil and wine. Jamon serrano : 
Queso manchego : 
Tortilla (nothing to see with what is called tortilla in Mexico) 
pimientos rellenos 
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| Uriel |
Julian, it's funny, but everyone I know who's been to Italy, including my parents, seems to agree that the place with the absolute worst Italian food is ... Italy itself! (And it's not just Americans -- a shopkeeper in Mexico was telling me all about her trip to Italy and how she could wait to get back home and have a decent Pizza Hut pizza! )
Five francs to the dollar? It was seven when I was there -- the year before they switched to the euro. I knew it was coming, so I collected every coin I could from every country I went to. Suckers -- you'll want those back someday! Tapas is not well known in most of the US. I guess they're trendy in some of the more cosmopolitan places, I mean, if you're a snooty eater or like to think you're a bit of a gourmet you'll know the term, but myself, I've only eaten them once -- and that was in England! They were all right, but nothing to write home about. Although I love calamari -- I just never thought of it as particularly Spanish. You're right about the Spanish tortilla being nothing like the "real" thing -- and those pimientos rellenos are nothing like the chile rellenos I'm used to (which I'm personally not all that fond of).
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| Deborah |
Or if you just happen to live in a neighborhood that has some Spanish restaurants where they serve tapas...
I've had some pretty good stuff.
My mother had a friend who kept her supplied with excellent homemade Spanish tortillas, and since she lived with me... |
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| fab |
Tapas a absolutly nothing lake a a "trendy" thing. they are popular simple pieces of food - the English equivalent word could be "snack"... it not not "high gastronomy".
well, it is. you find them (and sepias too) everywhere in Spain, not only on the coasts.
the only common thing is to use a similar name. Spanish tortilla is an omelette - with ognions and potatoes, while Mexican tortilla is probablay having some indigenous origins. I remember having seen a group of Canadians and American to who I was discussing in the youth hostel in Madrid. They were talking about how dissapointed they were, first by the temperature (it was freezing as it is usually in winter), and by the food, some of them were expecting to eat somethings like tacos and enchilladas... which for a spanish is something complelty exotic and unknown (they are very few mexican restaurants in Spain, they are not popular at all) |
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| Deborah |
Here's the main ingredient -- it's definitely indigenous: 
Freshly made tortillas are the best!
Still? My mother lived in Madrid for a couple of years in the early '70s. She was very happy to discover that there was a Mexican restaurant...that is, until she tried the food, which she said was the worst Mexican food she'd ever tasted. |
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| Deborah |
BTW, for those who've never had a Spanish tortilla, they're not so much like omelettes as like frittatas. | ||||||
| Uriel |
Even in northern New Mexico, the "Mexican" food is nothing like the real thing, and my friends and family who live up there love to come down here for it!
When I said tapas were trendy, I meant only in the US market. And by the way, the reverse of your comment about the attitude of the Spanish toward Mexican food is true here -- Spanish food is unknown, and you will find no Spanish restaurants anywhere in the area! Mexican tortillas are definitely related to Indian versions like Navajo flatbread and frybread and Hopi piki, which is a crispy, paper-thin creation made by spreading cornmeal batter on a hot rock with the fingers, and then peeling it off carefully (it's common to burn your fingers until you get used to it, according to Hopi women). 
These are made from blue corn, hence the odd color. Tastes just like regular corn, though. Corn comes in white, yellow, red, and blue varieties, as well as ornamentals that are multicolored on the same ear. They make festive chips, too. 
Speaking of colors, I didn't understand what you meant by sepias, fab, since sepia in English is a shade of brown. [img]http://image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=160&uid=379185381&mid=104423[/img] 
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| Julian |
Sepia is cuttlefish, used in a lot of Spanish dishes. 
Sepia estofada 
Sepia guisada con patatas 
Sepia a la mallorquina |
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| Uriel |
It would be "con papas" here, but what I'm used to seeing as guisada sauce is a lot thicker and darker, and nasty, too -- chock full of some spice I don't like. Cumin, I think. |
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| fab |
I've just seen this movie, it was pretty funny. I actually found intersting to see an American view of Paris../ ;) | ||||||