Is it just me, or are northern Europeans just the ultimate beer connoisseurs? The ones I know just love to drink it, like it's their favorite past time, and they just seem to know everything about beer. Everytime I see them, they either have a beer in their hand, or they're talking about the infinite varieties of beer. The ones I know are Dutch, Danish, and German.
Sander
Re: Scandanavians: Beer Experts
Porthos wrote:
Is it just me, or are northern Europeans just the ultimate beer connoisseurs? The ones I know just love to drink it, like it's their favorite past time, and they just seem to know everything about beer. Everytime I see them, they either have a beer in their hand, or they're talking about the infinite varieties of beer. The ones I know are Dutch, Danish, and German.
The ultimate beer experts are found in the low countries, specifically below the rhine. If there is one country that springs (or should spring) to mind when you think of beer it's Belgium.
Scandanavia? If I understood correctly, Finns have a national alcohol problem, if they are representable for all other scandanavians ... I'd say that they have a preference for the heavier drinks.
Germans are the beer whores of Europe. They have this "beer + bratwurst" image but really, though they value beer they just like to drink a lot of it, whereas the Belgians (mostly Flemings though) and the Dutch actually take their time to taste the beer rather that pour it down their hole while listening to Schlagermusik (see Oktoberfest)
Porthos
Yeah. I used to be good friends with a large extended Dutch immigrant family. They had beer dispensers all over the house, their own personal bar, and the kids even drank beer, from an early age!
Sander
Porthos wrote:
and the kids even drank beer, from an early age!
Kids usually start drinking beer here around 7/8 (tasting, maybe 1/2 or 1/4 of a glass) a whole glass generally isn't consumed untill the age of 13. Being drunk regularly (once or twice a month) isn't socially acceptable till the age of 16/17.
To the right is a typical Dutch beer glass.
Benjamin [inactive]
This will probably surprise a lot of you, but I've actually never even tasted beer — perhaps because I have a rather negative image of the stuff as I often associate beer-drinking with obesity and uncivilised behaviour, and thus really have no desire to even try it. However, I drink red wine on a regular basis though, plus the occasional glass of brandy.
That attitude has left me feeling rather foolish on a number of occasions though — like going into a pub in Germany a few weeks ago and asking for a glass of red wine, even though everyone else was drinking beer.
I'm not quite sure how I'll be perceived when I go to university next year though... LOL.
Porthos
When are you going to get over this, "beer and northern European meals are barbaric" mentality? Dainty portions and an expensive bottle of wine are the only "civilized" meals for you? Or, are only appetizers civilized for your taste?
Benjamin [inactive]
Porthos wrote:
When are you going to get over this, "beer and northern European meals are barbaric" mentality?
Go to any reasonably large British city on a Friday or Saturday evening and walk around the centre or use the buses. You will soon see what I mean.
Sander
Benjamin wrote:
Porthos wrote:
When are you going to get over this, "beer and northern European meals are barbaric" mentality?
Go to any reasonably large British city on a Friday or Saturday evening and walk around the centre or use the buses. You will soon see what I mean.
And you think this is inferior to the stereotypical drunk french peasant who does god knows what to his animals?
Deborah
Benjamin wrote:
This will probably surprise a lot of you, but I've actually never even tasted beer — perhaps because I have a rather negative image of the stuff as I often associate beer-drinking with obesity and uncivilised behaviour, and thus really have no desire to even try it. However, I drink red wine on a regular basis though, plus the occasional glass of brandy.
I wouldn't have been surprised if you'd said you'd never drunk anything alcoholic (that was my situation before I went to college), but I am surprised that you drink wine and brandy and haven't tasted beer. I'm sure you know that beer doesn't cause uncivilized behavior any more than wine does -- that depends on who's drinking it. I choose my drink according to what tastes good and how it affects me. And beer can be very tasty stuff, especially in hot weather (cold beer, anyway). For many years, my first sip of beer always reminded me of being at the beach in North Carolina's Outer Banks.
Quote:
That attitude has left me feeling rather foolish on a number of occasions though — like going into a pub in Germany a few weeks ago and asking for a glass of red wine, even though everyone else was drinking beer.
I wonder which would be considered worse, red wine or milk?
Benjamin [inactive]
Sander wrote:
And you think this is inferior to the stereotypical drunk french peasant who does god knows what to his animals?
The difference here is that that doesn't actually happen, whilst masses of drunk people roaming around Birmingham city centre does.
fab
How people can drink so much beer ??!!
More seriously, Beer drinkink is more a German and central European thing, even if it is widely drinken in all northern Europe.
Beer drinking is especially low in France and Italy. Curiously, Spain, which is traditionally a "wine-country" has recently increased its consumption (maybe it is also accentuated due to the fact that thousands of Germans spend their holidays there... )
fab
Wine consumption :
wine-growing areas :
fab
Quote:
perhaps because I have a rather negative image of the stuff as I often associate beer-drinking with obesity and uncivilised behaviour
contrary to the English-speaking nations, in France wine doesn't have a more "civilized" conotation. It is the everyday alcohol, in the streets you can see every drunk homeless people brings he's red wine bottle with him.
Walker
Swedish beer isn't that great. Norwegian beer, I have no idea. But Denmark has some good kinds of beer, I've been told. I don't think that Carlsberg is that special, though. The general perception of Swedish beer amongst Danes seems to be that it tastes like water. In my experience the best beer is made in Britain.
Porthos
As an American, I can sort of sympathize with Benjamin, only not completely. I have this image of beer being masculine (a bunch of the boys at the bar/pub chugging down giant beer pints, smacking their glasses together in toasts, and being loud and roudy, while possibly over an American football game or a boxing fight), and something that is everday and mundane, while not fancy or especially sophisticated. With wine however, I think of a small glass of expensive wine, reserved for special occassions, with a refined setting, or possibly at a fine restaraunt, or over a dainty, high class Italian or French meal, something that you hold with three fingers, while being quiet and reserved, or something you whip out for a romantic scene. That's why I always found it to be strange when Spanish uses "la cerveza" in the feminine form, while "el vino" is used in the masculine form, when to be, I think it should be the opposite.
Northern European food strikes me as being bland, lacking in sufficient flavors and spices, overly heavy, messy, and unhealthy, unlike traditional mediterranean food. I think that's why Benjamin describes it as being "barbaric".
Porthos
Walker wrote:
Swedish beer isn't that great. Norwegian beer, I have no idea. But Denmark has some good kinds of beer, I've been told. I don't think that Carlsberg is that special, though. The general perception of Swedish beer amongst Danes seems to be that it tastes like water. In my experience the best beer is made in Britain.
I don't know. I like Dutch beers which I have tried, but my favorite are Mexican beers! They are the best in my opinion.
Benjamin [inactive]
Porthos wrote:
I have this image of beer being masculine (a bunch of the boys at the bar/pub chugging down giant beer pints, smacking their glasses together in toasts, and being loud and roudy,
Except it isn't just men these days; it's women as well. Actually, what a lot non-British people often say when they come to Britain is that they find that the women 'behave like men', both in drinking and in sexual relationships (they seem to find this shocking, for some reason). Personally, I think they're being sexist, as it would never occur to me to make that distinction.
By the way, Josh — I don't think I ever described anything as 'barbaric'.
Deborah
I've enjoyed beers from many countries. When I go to an Asian restaurant and I feel like having a beer, I tend to order a beer from that country.
I really like Mexican beer. Bohemia was the first imported beer I ever tasted, so it has a special place in my heart. Josh, which Mexican beer(s) is(are) your favorite(s)?(?)
Porthos
Deborah wrote:
I've enjoyed beers from many countries. When I go to an Asian restaurant and I feel like having a beer, I tend to order a beer from that country.
I really like Mexican beer. Bohemia was the first imported beer I ever tasted, so it has a special place in my heart. Josh, which Mexican beer(s) is(are) your favorite(s)?(?)
I really shouldn't have a favorite at my age in the country we live in.
If I had to say my absolute favorite, I would probably say Pacifico. There's just something so special about being in Cabo, on the beach on a hot day, with an ice cold Pacifico and lime. Ummm, good.
Deborah
Porthos wrote:
If I had to say my absolute favorite, I would probably say Pacifico. There's just something so special about being in Cabo, on the beach on a hot day, with an ice cold Pacifico and lime. Ummm, good.
I haven't tried Pacifico yet -- next time.
Funny how well beer goes with beaches...
Porthos
Deborah wrote:
Porthos wrote:
If I had to say my absolute favorite, I would probably say Pacifico. There's just something so special about being in Cabo, on the beach on a hot day, with an ice cold Pacifico and lime. Ummm, good.
I haven't tried Pacifico yet -- next time.
Funny how well beer goes with beaches...
Yeah, I know.
fab
It is strange that Mexico didn't developped a wine culture as Argentina or Chile did but a beer culture.
Sander
Benjamin wrote:
The difference here is that that doesn't actually happen, whilst masses of drunk people roaming around Birmingham city centre does.
But should this prevent you from enjoying a nice drink? If it's class you're worried about, it's not just Budweiser, Heineken and Bittburger out there. This is beer as well;
Does the above picture remind you of Birmingham as well?
Benjamin [inactive]
Sander wrote:
Does the above picture remind you of Birmingham as well?
It actually reminds me of the Belgian beer that my dad drinks every day, lol.
I've attempted to taste beer before, but for some reason, psychologically I just can't seem to manage to sip it. Of course, I first tasted wine when I was 5, have been drinking wine on-and-off since I was about 9 (i.e. Christmas, New Year, Easter etc.), and on a regular basis since I was about 14. So it's not as though my parents have demonised alcohol or anything, lol.
fab
Tcheks, Irish, Germans top three
fab
Quote:
I've attempted to taste beer before, but for some reason, psychologically I just can't seem to manage to sip it. Of course, I first tasted wine when I was 5
Et bien !! Tu as commencé à boire jeune !!
Je dois dire que je n'aime pas beaucoup la bière non plus, et je n'ai commencé à boire du vin qu'à 22 ans... mais depuis je me rattrappe !
Sander
Benjamin wrote:
Sander wrote:
Does the above picture remind you of Birmingham as well?
It actually reminds me of the Belgian beer that my dad drinks every day, lol.
Well it's Dutch Trappist beer, but the Belgians make Trappist too. (together with the Dutch they're the only ones in the world)
I'll tell you this though, if your dad drinks trappist every day he has an expensive hobby ...
Benjamin [inactive]
fab wrote:
Et bien !! Tu as commencé à boire jeune !!
Je dois dire que je n'aime pas beaucoup la bière non plus, et je n'ai commencé à boire du vin qu'à 22 ans... mais depuis je me rattrappe !
Oouh la la... tes parents étaient-ils Évangeliques-Baptistes ? Moi je ne connais personne ici à l'âge de 14 ans ou plus qui ne boit pas de l'alcool.
J'ai parlé aujourd'hui de l'alcool avec notre assistante française au lycée. Je lui ai dit du stéréotype qui existe en Angleterre que les Français commencent à boire du vin à l'âge de 5 ans -, elle a répondu que c'était complétement faux et elle était très choqué d'apprendre que je bois depuis si jeunes, quoique je le considère comme parfaitement normal.
Mais franchement, lorsque je restais chez mon ami français en septembre, j'étais très étonné qu'ils ne buvaient aucun alcool avec les repas ... et quand il restait chez-moi en mars, il l'a trouvé assez bizarre que nous buvions du vin avec les leurs. J'avais prévu qu'ils boiraient du vin tous les jours !
fab
Oui, Benjamin,
Boire du vin en France est considéré comme une attitude d' "adulte".
La plupart des enfants et adolescents (voire jeunes adultes) préfèrent boire des boissons sucrées.
En général on découvre le vin plus tard. A part quelques verres dans des occasions très particulières. C'est très inhabituel (voire choquant) de faire boire du vin à des enfants. N'oublions pas que le degré d'alcoolisation du vin est bien plus élévé que celui de la bière...
Benjamin [inactive]
fab wrote:
Boire du vin en France est considéré comme une attutude d' "adulte".
Eh ben ... je suis fils unique alors mes parents m'ont toujours traité comme adulte, lol.
Quote:
N'oublions pas que le degré d'alcoolisation du vin est bien plus élévé que celui de la bière...
Ah oui, je le sais bien ... mais je ne suis que très rarement ivre, lol. D'autre part, je prefère le cognac, mais j'en bois très inhabituellement !
Ça me rappelle de mes copains (anglais) qui sont devenus assez ivres dans un bar irlandais à Clermont-Ferrand à 15h, mais notre professeur (il est français, mais il habite à Birmingham depuis 19 ans) ne s'inquiètait pas, lol. Je me sentais un peu idiot car je n'ai bu que d'Orangina.
fab
Quote:
Je me sentais un peu idiot car je n'ai bu que d'Orangina.
Ce sont plutôt tes amis ivres qui devraient se sentir un peu idiots, non ?...
Benjamin [inactive]
fab wrote:
Quote:
Je me sentais un peu idiot car je n'ai bu que d'Orangina.
Ce sont plutôt tes amis ivres qui devraient se sentir un peu idiots, non ?...
Héhé, c'était très amusant pour moi de les voir ivres ! Il faut dire que c'était une *très* bonne (et amusante) semaine avec nos corres ...
Deborah
Benjamin wrote:
fab wrote:
Quote:
Je me sentais un peu idiot car je n'ai bu que d'Orangina.
Ce sont plutôt tes amis ivres qui devraient se sentir un peu idiots, non ?...
Héhé, c'était très amusant pour moi de les voir ivres ! Il faut dire que c'était une *très* bonne (et amusante) semaine avec nos corres ...
I once stopped drinking for quite awhile after observing the other guests at a party where I was the only one who wasn't drinking -- you get a different perspective!
Porthos
fab wrote:
It is strange that Mexico didn't developped a wine culture as Argentina or Chile did but a beer culture.
Most of Hispano-America didn't develop a wine culture, and there is a reason. Argentina and Chile are exceptions to the general rule. This is because the Spanish fiercely resisted any attempts on behalf of the colonials to develop their own wine industries, because they would be competeing with Spanish wine growers. So, most of Latin America never developed a strong wine culture, but instead, produced beer.
fab
The climatic factor may have had an role too. Grape is not made for tropical climates, but mediterranean-like as in Chile and Argentina.
Said that you're probably right, because I think northern Mexico could have had a climate OK for grapes (and maybe also other places in meso-America, especially in the more moderate climate of altitude.
Porthos
fab wrote:
The climatic factor may have had an role too. Grape is not made for tropical climates, but mediterranean-like as in Chile and Argentina.
Said that you're probably right, because I think northern Mexico could have had a climate OK for grapes (and maybe also other places in meso-America, especially in the more moderate climate of altitude.
Well, I'm not sure about northern Mexico. It is largely desert like the U.S. southwest, so much of it would not be ideal for grapes. But coastal regions in Mexico would certainly be able to sustain grapes, as would other areas.
Deborah
Porthos wrote:
fab wrote:
The climatic factor may have had an role too. Grape is not made for tropical climates, but mediterranean-like as in Chile and Argentina.
Well, I'm not sure about northern Mexico. It is largely desert like the U.S. southwest, so much of it would not be ideal for grapes. But coastal regions in Mexico would certainly be able to sustain grapes, as would other areas.
Imagine Tijuana as a center of viticulture...
Deborah
Deborah wrote:
Imagine Tijuana as a center of viticulture...
Well, I have to eat my words -- at least some of them. While Baja's wineries are centered a bit further south, around Ensenada, one of the wineries does have a tasting room in Tijuana.
Deborah
Porthos wrote:
If I had to say my absolute favorite, I would probably say Pacifico. There's just something so special about being in Cabo, on the beach on a hot day, with an ice cold Pacifico and lime. Ummm, good.
This isn't Baja -- it's Mazatlan, where Pacifico is brewed:
I wish I were there right now...
Porthos
I'm spending Christmas in Cabo, in Cabo! For free! For free!
Julian
Deborah wrote:
I really like Mexican beer. Bohemia was the first imported beer I ever tasted, so it has a special place in my heart.
Deborah, have you ever tried Negra Modelo? Brewed in Mexico by Austrian immigrants. It's "the cream of Mexican beers."
Fredrik
Haha, Porthos, why did you describe Scandinavians as beer experts in the thread title? I would rather say that Scandinavians are enemies of true, good beer culture, as the Scandinavian brewery scene is totally dominated by boring, bitter pils(ner) = pale lager. Of course, often you want a pale lager, but other times you crave a dark, aromatic old-fashioned medieval beer, which is very rare in Scandinavia. Therefore, visiting Germany with it's incredible selection of both dark, brunette and blond beers is also an eye-opening experience for Scandinavians.
Porthos
Well I considered a thread title about northern Europeans in general, but since we've been talking about them a lot, I didn't want to arouse any comments like, "Josh is obsessed with his so called 'Germanic Europe'!".
Sander
Porthos wrote:
"Josh is obsessed with his so called 'Germanic Europe'!".
Eventhough you are.
Porthos
Yeah, you were exactly who I had in mind Sander. Why do you take such offense to the term 'Germanic Europe'? Do you not like Germanic languages all of a sudden?
fab
Quote:
Well I considered a thread title about northern Europeans in general, but since we've been talking about them a lot, I didn't want to arouse any comments like, "Josh is obsessed with his so called 'Germanic Europe'!".
Actually having said "germanic Europeans are the specialists of beer" would have been more accurate tha "scandinavians.
Outside of the language, beer culture seem to be a unificator factor among germanic cultures.
Porthos
fab wrote:
Quote:
Well I considered a thread title about northern Europeans in general, but since we've been talking about them a lot, I didn't want to arouse any comments like, "Josh is obsessed with his so called 'Germanic Europe'!".
Actually having said "germanic Europeans are the specialists of beer" would have been more accurate tha "scandinavians.
Outside of the language, beer culture seem to be a unificator factor among germanic cultures.
Well, for some reason, Sander throws a fit every time I use the word "Germanic" when speaking of northern Europe or Germanic speaking regions or cultures. So sometimes, predicting one of his fits, I try to refrain from using the term when possible.
Benjamin [inactive]
Porthos wrote:
Well, for some reason, Sander throws a fit every time I use the word "Germanic" when speaking of northern Europe or Germanic speaking regions or cultures. So sometimes, predicting one of his fits, I try to refrain from using the term when possible.
The thing is, it is reminiscent of something from Antimoon fairly recently. Antimoon used to be a place of constant fighting between Americans and British people. This turned into a more general America vs. the rest of the world sort of conflict, which subsequently turned into a very ridiculous 'Latin vs. Germanic' thing which lasted for ages, where a some 'Latin' people were constantly venting their hatred for all things 'Germanic'. Do you remember the infamous 'vive le Québec libre' thread?
I've discussed this with Sander before, and we both agree that Antimoon was the first place in which we had ever been described as 'Germanic'. Realistically, people in England, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark etc. do not generally wake up in the morning and think 'I live in a Germanic culture'.
Deborah
Julian wrote:
Deborah, have you ever tried Negra Modelo? Brewed in Mexico by Austrian immigrants. It's "the cream of Mexican beers."
Yes, I like it very much. And I'm not even really fond of dark beer generally.
Porthos
Benjamin wrote:
Porthos wrote:
Well, for some reason, Sander throws a fit every time I use the word "Germanic" when speaking of northern Europe or Germanic speaking regions or cultures. So sometimes, predicting one of his fits, I try to refrain from using the term when possible.
The thing is, it is reminiscent of something from Antimoon fairly recently. Antimoon used to be a place of constant fighting between Americans and British people. This turned into a more general America vs. the rest of the world sort of conflict, which subsequently turned into a very ridiculous 'Latin vs. Germanic' thing which lasted for ages, where a some 'Latin' people were constantly venting their hatred for all things 'Germanic'. Do you remember the infamous 'vive le Québec libre' thread?
I've discussed this with Sander before, and we both agree that Antimoon was the first place in which we had ever been described as 'Germanic'. Realistically, people in England, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark etc. do not generally wake up in the morning and think 'I live in a Germanic culture'.
Similarly, Americans don't divide Europe into a "Germanic" and "Latin" sphere. Most don't even know what that is. Descriptive words like "Germanic" and "Latin" are usually only commonly used by more intellectual types, such as ourselves on langcafe. I think very much in terms of "Latin" vs. "Germanic", almost to the point of having romanticized notions, and I have thought this way since I was about 10, when I became very interested in the Roman Empire and the subsequent cultural formation of the rest of Europe and its various regions and peoples.
Benjamin [inactive]
Equally, at least in British English, the word 'Latin' often has rather romanticised (no pun intended) overtones and connotations of high civilisation, sophistication and prestigious education. 'Germanic' can seem mildly derogatory by comparison (not to mention that the whole concept has racialist connotations, even if it isn't intended that way).
Porthos
I use "Germanic" both in cultural terms, to describe the northern European peoples who speak Germanic languages and share a simliar culture, and as an ethnic description, for lack of a better word. I will use "Germanic" rather than just "northern European" to differentiate between the traditionally Germanic speaking peoples of continental Europe, and the historically Celtic cultures of places like Ireland and Wales who have low rates of blond hair, but dark haired majorities, and very high rates of red hair. But, mainly, I use "Germanic" as a cultural and linguistic description. I don't see what's so bad about that, even if it seems silly to some people like Sander. Perhaps it's because as an American, I tend to, or have the luxury of thinking of Europe in historical terms, so that my image of it might not fit modern realities. As such, as you yourself pointed out, very few if nearly any northern Europeans wake up and say "I am Germanic. I live in Germanic Europe."
Harrenys Targaryen
I haven't had the chance to try Carlsberg, the leading Danish brand, yet, though I would like to. (I'd think it comparable to Molson Canadian.) But I probably would only drink it for social gatherings and the like: caffeinated beverages are tastier!
Fredrik
Hvad siger du, Harrenys! Du studerer dansk, men har endnu ikke prøvet Carlsberg! Du skulde sgu skamme dig, dreng! (Jeg troede det var en del af pensum....)
(BTW here in Norway we often drink Tuborg, as that is the cheapest brand available.)
Porthos:
Although we Europeans think it's weird, I can see that your use of German, Latin etc, is quite practical.....but not in this case, though! Europe's ultimate beer lovers are probably the Czechs. And although Czech culture has a profound Germanic-Austrian solid homeliness to it, they are certainly Slavs!
Porthos
Sadly, Fred, I have a habit of forgetting the slaves. Oops, I meant "slavs".
Harrenys Targaryen
Fredrik wrote:
Hvad siger du, Harrenys! Du studerer dansk, men har endnu ikke prøvet Carlsberg! Du skulde sgu skamme dig, dreng! (Jeg troede det var en del af pensum....)
Hvis du kunne stjele noen flasker fra ThomasB, så ville jeg være takknemligst!
Walker
Porthos wrote:
As an American, I can sort of sympathize with Benjamin, only not completely. I have this image of beer being masculine (a bunch of the boys at the bar/pub chugging down giant beer pints, smacking their glasses together in toasts, and being loud and roudy, while possibly over an American football game or a boxing fight), and something that is everday and mundane, while not fancy or especially sophisticated. With wine however, I think of a small glass of expensive wine, reserved for special occassions, with a refined setting, or possibly at a fine restaraunt, or over a dainty, high class Italian or French meal, something that you hold with three fingers, while being quiet and reserved, or something you whip out for a romantic scene. That's why I always found it to be strange when Spanish uses "la cerveza" in the feminine form, while "el vino" is used in the masculine form, when to be, I think it should be the opposite.
Northern European food strikes me as being bland, lacking in sufficient flavors and spices, overly heavy, messy, and unhealthy, unlike traditional mediterranean food. I think that's why Benjamin describes it as being "barbaric".
A "beer session" becomes what you make of it. If you want to get loud and roudy in front of a TV, go right ahead! But it doesn't have to be like that at all. Some people like to watch a game and shout but I don't necessarily associate that with beer, even though beer is often drunk on such occasions.
Fab, does that beer drinking map show how often people drink beer or how much beer they drink? I tell you, not many people here go out on a Friday or Saturday night and drink wine or drinks. Those beverages are too expensive. We drink (lots of) beer!
Sander
Porthos wrote:
I use "Germanic" as a cultural and linguistic description.
You can't use "Germanic" in the way you use it. The Roman Empire fell, get over it.
Porthos
Sander wrote:
Porthos wrote:
I use "Germanic" as a cultural and linguistic description.
You can't use "Germanic" in the way you use it. The Roman Empire fell, get over it.
Who died and made you king, Sander? I don't see how using the term "Germanic" in a lingustic-cultural sense is nostalgic about the Roman Empire. Are these people not Germanic? Should we then change the name of the Germanic language family, simply because the Roman Empire fell? What would you prefer we called it instead? "Northwestern European" language family?
Sander
Porthos wrote:
Sander wrote:
Porthos wrote:
I use "Germanic" as a cultural and linguistic description.
You can't use "Germanic" in the way you use it. The Roman Empire fell, get over it.
Who died and made you king, Sander? I don't see how using the term "Germanic" in a lingustic-cultural sense is nostalgic about the Roman Empire. Are these people not Germanic? Should we then change the name of the Germanic language family, simply because the Roman Empire fell? What would you prefer we called it instead? "Northwestern European" language family?
I'd prefer it if you stopped making ridiculous generalisations.
Porthos
You're right Sander. We should change the name of the language group to "Northwestern European". That makes more sense. You know what, screw the Celtic languages also present in North-western Europe. We must make room for the new and improved name Sander has elected for us.
Sander
Porthos wrote:
You're right Sander.
Thanks for understanding.
fab
Quote:
Fab, does that beer drinking map show how often people drink beer or how much beer they drink? I tell you, not many people here go out on a Friday or Saturday night and drink wine or drinks. Those beverages are too expensive
I think it shows to quantity. But I would have to check the website to be sure.
Benjamin [inactive]
Josh,
I don't think that Sander is opposed to the concept of Germanic languages. However, what I think he and I do find a bit weird is the idea that we are 'Germanic people' who live in 'Germanic cultures'. Even though you probably don't mean it this way, such concepts have overtones of 19th and early 20th century ethnicity theories which are no longer really relevant in Europe today. This 'ethnic' vision is a way of thinking which I associate mainly with my grandparents' generation.
Porthos
Benjamin wrote:
Josh,
I don't think that Sander is opposed to the concept of Germanic languages. However, what I think he and I do find a bit weird is the idea that we are 'Germanic people' who live in 'Germanic cultures'. Even though you probably don't mean it this way, such concepts have overtones of 19th and early 20th century ethnicity theories which are no longer really relevant in Europe today. This 'ethnic' vision is a way of thinking which I associate mainly with my grandparents' generation.
I understand that there is an ethnic connotation to the word, but at the present moment, I'm not using it in that sense. I also realize that you don't feel any shared pan-Germanic identity the way Latins might, but it doesn't change the fact that a Germanic cultural sphere does exist, just as there is a linguistic-cultural Latin and Slavic sphere in Europe.
Benjamin [inactive]
Porthos wrote:
I understand that there is an ethnic connotation to the word, but at the present moment, I'm not using it in that sense. I also realize that you don't feel any shared pan-Germanic identity the way Latins might, but it doesn't change the fact that a Germanic cultural sphere does exist, just as there is a linguistic-cultural Latin and Slavic sphere in Europe.
Personally, I'd question what it is about Czechia which places it in the same 'cultural sphere' as Russia, but makes it distinct from Austria and Hungary.
)
