Porthos
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The French use the word "Anglo-Saxon" a lot......... What exactly does such a word imply? I've asked this question of French people before, and the response is usually a vague one. They say it represents the cultural elements shared by English speaking peoples of the world. But, given the extraordinary diversity among Anglophone cultures and countries, you might ask yourself, "What exactly are these shared cultural elements?" I ask for specifics, but I am never given any. Supposedly, there is something very similar about all English speaking peoples, including Americans, to the French. Other than the language, and a history of representative government, and perhaps a strong business oriented society, I can't think of anything else which Britain truly shares with the U.S. The U.S. and Anglo-Canada are very similar, but everything else is more similar between Britain and the other Anglophone countries, and strictly culturally speaking, aside from the language, Britain is many more times more like Germany and Holland than it is like the U.S.
So again, I pose this question. What is the "Anglo-Saxon" culture? What is the mentality which the French people speak of?
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Benjamin [inactive]
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This goes without mentioning other English-speaking countries such as Jamaica, which you might not have fully considered when you've thought about this issue before. The interesting thing with the Anglophone Caribbean is that they actually share a number of things with Britain that the US does not, even though Britain is probably not usually perceived to be more similar to that region than to the US overall.
I basically agree with you — to me, German and Dutch people seem somehow 'less foreign' (for what of a better term) than Americans generally do. That's not an insult; it's just my experience. But at the end of the day, we're all Westerners. Differences between the US, Britain, France, Germany etc. are very pale and insignificant compared to the difference between any of the above and, say, Thailand.
As for the strong 'business' attitude of which you speak... I don't really see it. But that's probably because I'm from the sort of background where almost everyone I know works for the public sector. To put it bluntly, 'business' is of relatively little significance for me because 'everyone works for the government' in my world, lol. Actually, my family would probably find it quite strange if I were to start some sort of commercial enterprise instead of, say, becoming a teacher.
| Quote: | | I've asked this question of French people before, and the response is usually a vague one. ... I ask for specifics, but I am never given any. |
Or they list only negative things (often inaccurately), which confirms my feelings that anglo-saxon(ne)(s) does not have particularly positive connotations in French.
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fab
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Not only the french use "anglo-saxon", but a lot of other peoples, Italians, latin-Americans, etc.
The same way American people like to use the word "hispanic".
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Porthos
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It's used as a cultural term in English as well. But, the French use it more than anybody else. Most Latin-Americans, at least Mexicans, don't use the term as frequently as the French do. But you never explain what this "Anglo-Saxon" mentality or culture consists of.
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Uriel
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They don't mean it they way we do. Sort of like we use "Anglo" but don't necessarily mean in the sense of being of actual British descent. Fab probably has a good analogy with "hispanic", since hispanics are a far-flung and disparate group of people who happen to all speak Spanish, but may not have much else in common.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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My experience is that, in real life, at least in England, you can go for years without hearing the term 'Anglo-Saxon', except for referring to ancient Germanic tribes and their language. It's just not a term that we generally use for describing modern-day things.
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Porthos
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We use "Anglo-Saxon" for either northern European ethnic groups, the English ethnic group, or in a cultural sense for English speaking peoples.
But the French take it a step further and speak of this "Anglo-Saxon" mentality, as if being an Anglo-Saxon reaches the core of your soul. I ask again, what is this "Anglo-Saxon" mentality which they speak of?
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fab
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Anglo-saxon describe the common culture of the English-speaking peoples, united by the english language. The same way we speak about hispanic to speak of the common culture of the spanish speaking people; That doesn't mean that each one is exactly the same or have a completly identical mentality; Spanish people and Most latin-American have generally a very different mentality, it doesn't help to be both hispanics.
The same works for Anglo-saxon. 
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Porthos
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I understand that Fab. We're clear on that. But what is this Anglo-Saxon mentality? I know you don't mean that North American and British mentalities are identical, but surely you see a common ground between them in this aspect. So, what is this general Anglo-Saxon mentality?
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Uriel
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It would probably help if we had any kind of idea about the Gallic "mentality, LOL! Benjamin probably does, but you and I doubtless are pretty vague on what differences there might be in the Francophone world -- perhaps Fab can give us a few comparisons. And then we can settle in for a nice afternoon of dissecting them.
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Porthos
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I'll make it easy for Fab. I'll describe the Gallic mentality from an Anglo-Saxon perspective (well, at least 50% Anglo-Saxon).
Gallic mentality
Don't like to talk about money, very reclusive and private about a lot of things, passionate about life, and recreation and relaxation, taking the time to sit back and enjoy life, practical and pragmatic, especially in warfare ("Why should we fight, if we're going to lose the battle anyway?" type philosophy), take seemingly mundane things and make an art out of them, like food, romance, sex, wine, etc, Catholic influenced, while also very secular and anti-clerical, love to debate, and very concerned with fashion and appearance.
That's just things that come to mind when I think of the Gallic mentality. Now as a Frenchmen, try to do the same and describe the Anglo-Saxon mentality.
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Pauline
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It's not true, that anglo-saxon has always a negative connotation ; for exemple, it's said for music also, when the song is in english. On the local radio station here, in the annoncements of the types of music what they will have, for describe popmusic from the english-speaking countries, this is called anglo-saxon music.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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Hmmm, what would I associate with Anglo-Saxon music?
It's of an old friar as I have been told,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee,
He courted a maid just sixteen years old,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee.
The friar came in as she lay on her bed
And swore he'd have her maidenhead,
With his fair-a-lair-a-liddle,
Sing twice to my lanky-down-dairy-o.
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Uriel
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Ah. So Anglo-Saxon = dirty old men.
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Pauline
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LOL benjamin 
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fab
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| Quote: | Don't like to talk about money, very reclusive and private about a lot of things, passionate about life, and recreation and relaxation, taking the time to sit back and enjoy life, practical and pragmatic, especially in warfare ("Why should we fight, if we're going to lose the battle anyway?" type philosophy), take seemingly mundane things and make an art out of them, like food, romance, sex, wine, etc, Catholic influenced, while also very secular and anti-clerical, love to debate, and very concerned with fashion and appearance.
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This sound more or less as a stereotypical description of a very "latin" mentality.
You can take the opposite of each and it could be fit in a stereotipically "anglo-saxon" way of being...
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Benjamin [inactive]
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So, Fab, you don't associate not liking to talk about money, being private and reclusive about a lot of things and having a largely secular worldview with English people? I do.
And I'm not sure if 'secular and anti-clerical' is really appropriate for much of Latin America.
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Porthos
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| Benjamin wrote: |
And I'm not sure if 'secular and anti-clerical' is really appropriate for much of Latin America. |
Lol, Benjamin! Very true indeed. But I think he was talking about Latin Europeans.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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I'm not sure if it's really appropriate for Southern Italy and Portugal, either. Those regions are both rather more religious than England, anyway. Generally though, I tend to think of most of Western Europe as being very secular.
Equally, the reverse of most of those things listed above seem very negative to me.
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Porthos
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I agree. The reverse of the above mentioned traits would seem very negative and xenophobic. And I would also definitely say that southern Italy and Spain is certainly more religious than England. A lot of Spanish kids still attend Catholic school!
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | | I agree. The reverse of the above mentioned traits would seem very negative and xenophobic. And I would also definitely say that southern Italy and Spain is certainly more religious than England. A lot of Spanish kids still attend Catholic school! |
Actually, about 25% of English children attend either a Church of England or Roman Catholic school until they're 11, but this often has very little to do with religion. They're free, and they're perceived to be better schools in general. In fact, I can think of several 'Church of England' schools here where almost all the pupils are Muslims.
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Porthos
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Hum, interesting. I think of southern European countries as being nominally Catholic, and countries like England as being nominally Protestant.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | | Hum, interesting. |
Ha, it's what happens when you live in an officially Christian country where most people don't really care about religion anymore.
| Quote: | | I think of southern European countries as being nominally Catholic, and countries like England as being nominally Protestant. |
To a large extent, yes. In England, perhaps about 50% of people are from an Anglican background, whilst about 25% are from a Roman Catholic background.
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fab
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| Quote: | So, Fab, you don't associate not liking to talk about money, being private and reclusive about a lot of things and having a largely secular worldview with English people? I do.
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No, I don't. A country whose motto is "Dieu et mon droit" doesn't seem to me very anticlerical... In France we had cuted heads for less than that 210 years ago !...
A country whose capital's heart is a huge financial center can hardly be considered as reclusive to speak about money. I may agree that generally speaking, most English-people are maybe less money-obsessed than in the American average, English are still much more than us. And it doesn't help that there is also in England politically leftist people as you are, who don't think that this model of society is necesserally the ideal one.
It doesn't help that, from an exterior point of view, the UK is seen as a very economically liberal country, centred on business, and that for us the different is not so big with the other former English colonies who bsed their societies on similar strutures (and, in the cse of the US, who went even more farther than the UK in that direction).
But I agree that, on the question o secularism and the importance of the religion practice, the opposiotion is not in a Anglo/latin opposition, but more European/American opposition.
one of the most liberal country in Europe on the subject of "religious morals" is Spain !... (who legalized homosexual marriage)
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fab
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| Quote: | | Equally, the reverse of most of those things listed above seem very negative to me |
This is a very personal opinion...
"not speaking about money" is not "better" than "speaking of it", etc.. it is just different attitudes. being late at appointments is not really better than being at time ...
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| fab wrote: | | No, I don't. A country whose motto is "Dieu et mon droit" doesn't seem to me very anticlerical... |
This is superficial; it's an innocent relic from the past. The reality is that only about 5% of people in England attend religious services on a regular basis. This seems very 'secular' to me.
| Quote: | | A country whose capital's heart is a huge financial center can hardly be considered as reclusive to speak about money. I may agree that generally speaking, most English-people are maybe less money-obsessed than in the American average, English are still much more than us. And it doesn't help that there is also in England politically leftist people as you are, who don't think that this model of society is necesserally the ideal one. |
To be honest though, I don't think that I have ever had a conversation about money. I haven't heard many conversations about money either.
Another interesting question: is your view of 'English people' in general based primarily on middle-class England or on working-class England? You might not realise this, but the two are worlds apart.
| Quote: | | It doesn't help that, from an exterior point of view, the UK is seen as a very economically liberal country, centred on business, and that for us the different is not so big with the other former English colonies who bsed their societies on similar strutures (and, in the cse of the US, who went even more farther than the UK in that direction). |
I find this perception difficult to understand, because the vast majority of people I know work for the public sector, i.e. for the government, and really have no interest in 'business' at all.
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Porthos
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Quote:
It doesn't help that, from an exterior point of view, the UK is seen as a very economically liberal country, centred on business, and that for us the different is not so big with the other former English colonies who bsed their societies on similar strutures (and, in the cse of the US, who went even more farther than the UK in that direction).
Actually, this is true Benjamin.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| fab wrote: | | Quote: | | Equally, the reverse of most of those things listed above seem very negative to me |
This is a very personal opinion...
"not speaking about money" is not "better" than "speaking of it", etc.. it is just different attitudes. being late at appointments is not really better than being at time ... |
Let's see...
Is obsessed with money, loud-mouthed and intruding, has no passion for life and recreation, does not take time to relax, has no interest in enjoying life, random and overly idealistic, especially in warfare ("We must fight because we are incapable of losing the battle" type philosophy), has no real interest in things like food, romance, sex, wine, etc, not Catholic influenced but are extremely religious and loyal to the Church, hate debating and has no interest in fashion and appearance.
That is the opposite of Josh's stereotypical view of French people. It all seems very negative to me.
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Porthos
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Oh Benjamin, that made for a very good laugh. Oh my goodness, very funny! That's true. I don't think that's up to debate. If you use the same frame that I did for describing Frenchmen, and only wrote the opposite, you would definitely get a negative picture of Anglo people.
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Porthos
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| Benjamin wrote: | | fab wrote: | | Quote: | | Equally, the reverse of most of those things listed above seem very negative to me |
This is a very personal opinion...
"not speaking about money" is not "better" than "speaking of it", etc.. it is just different attitudes. being late at appointments is not really better than being at time ... |
Let's see...
Is obsessed with money, loud-mouthed and intruding, has no passion for life and recreation, does not take time to relax, has no interest in enjoying life, random and overly idealistic, especially in warfare ("We must fight because we are incapable of losing the battle" type philosophy), has no real interest in things like food, romance, sex, wine, etc, not Catholic influenced but are extremely religious and loyal to the Church, hate debating and has no interest in fashion and appearance.
That is the opposite of Josh's stereotypical view of French people. It all seems very negative to me. |
I read that a second time, and still laughed so hysterically that I spit my latte all over the keyboard!
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Porthos
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| Benjamin wrote: | Hmmm, what would I associate with Anglo-Saxon music?
It's of an old friar as I have been told,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee,
He courted a maid just sixteen years old,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee.
The friar came in as she lay on her bed
And swore he'd have her maidenhead,
With his fair-a-lair-a-liddle,
Sing twice to my lanky-down-dairy-o. |
Woah, that one was funny too. Your antithesis of all things Gallic post put me in a laughing mood. I'm at the point now where I'm laughing at everything.
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Porthos
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Fab,
You know how you are usually amazed at how the rest of the world percieves France and French culture? Well, here is something I found which expresses the typical American perspective of Italian people, which is very different from that of the French.
"Italy has a population of over 58 million people in an area slightly larger than the state of Arizona. The traditional Mediterranean culture has had its influence on the central and southern parts of the country where most Italians are shorter with olive skin and dark hair. Farther north, the people are taller, blond and have lighter eyes, due to the Germanic influence across the Alps. But tall or short, light or dark, all Italians are gifted with the same collective outlook on life. They enjoy it. They are lively, sociable and have a passion for everything they do. They express emotions more freely than most and are not afraid to give hugs, kisses, and other displays of affection. Italians love to laugh and talk loudly, usually emphasizing everything with hand gestures. They are quick to welcome strangers into their towns and homes, and are always ready to share a meal or a story, a good joke or a song."
The average American's description of Frenchmen would be very different.
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Uriel
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Is obsessed with money, loud-mouthed and intruding, has no passion for life and recreation, does not take time to relax, has no interest in enjoying life, random and overly idealistic, especially in warfare ("We must fight because we are incapable of losing the battle" type philosophy), has no real interest in things like food, romance, sex, wine, etc, not Catholic influenced but are extremely religious and loyal to the Church, hate debating and has no interest in fashion and appearance.
Hmmm, now who does that sound like a stereotype of? Except that we like sex and debating....
I don't know that I have much of any concept of what French people are like. No real preconceptions or stereotypes of them. I would have more of British people, or even Italians -- people I'm more familiar with (if only second-hand). Obviously we are more likely to get an image of the British, whose language we share, and groups like the Italians, Irish, Germans, etc. have formed large enough ethnicities in the US and preserved enough of their defining characteristics to form some basis of opinion (however diluted by time and distance), but there have really never been many French-Americans.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | | Benjamin wrote: | Hmmm, what would I associate with Anglo-Saxon music?
It's of an old friar as I have been told,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee,
He courted a maid just sixteen years old,
Fal-the-dal-diddly-dee.
The friar came in as she lay on her bed
And swore he'd have her maidenhead,
With his fair-a-lair-a-liddle,
Sing twice to my lanky-down-dairy-o. |
Woah, that one was funny too. Your antithesis of all things Gallic post put me in a laughing mood. I'm at the point now where I'm laughing at everything. |
Oh no, said the maid, for you know very well,
Fal-the-dal-diddle-dee-dee,
If we do such things we'll go straight to hell,
Fal-the-dal-diddle-dee-dee.
Don't worry my dear, you need have no doubt,
If you was in hell I could sing you right out
With my fair-a-lair-a-liddle,
Sing twice to my lanky-down-dairy-o.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | Fab,
You know how you are usually amazed at how the rest of the world percieves France and French culture? Well, here is something I found which expresses the typical American perspective of Italian people, which is very different from that of the French.
"Italy has a population of over 58 million people in an area slightly larger than the state of Arizona. The traditional Mediterranean culture has had its influence on the central and southern parts of the country where most Italians are shorter with olive skin and dark hair. Farther north, the people are taller, blond and have lighter eyes, due to the Germanic influence across the Alps. But tall or short, light or dark, all Italians are gifted with the same collective outlook on life. They enjoy it. They are lively, sociable and have a passion for everything they do. They express emotions more freely than most and are not afraid to give hugs, kisses, and other displays of affection. Italians love to laugh and talk loudly, usually emphasizing everything with hand gestures. They are quick to welcome strangers into their towns and homes, and are always ready to share a meal or a story, a good joke or a song."
The average American's description of Frenchmen would be very different. |
Likewise, the stereotypical view here of Italians is very different from stereotypical view of French people. Essentially, you could say that the image which people have of Italians is almost entirely positive (and somewhat naive and outdated), whilst the image of French people combines both positive and negatives attributes (also somewhat outdated, often stemming from the days of Charles de Gaulle).
People here often have the idea that the French and the Germans are very good friends and really like each-other, because of the very obvious political co-operation between France and Germany. It wasn't until this year that I realised that they can't stand each-other. Actually, I was initially very surprised when I found that French people tend to think that Germany is more similar to Britain than to France. Since going to Germany earlier this year, I have realised that this is true. I tend to think that a lot of British people probably don't realise how much they have in common with the Germans, because most of us don't ever go there. It's only sine the World Cup this year that there has been an increased interest in Germany here.
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Uriel
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Our stereotypical view of Italians is more in the "Goodfellas" mold -- sorry, I mean "Sicilian businessmen". It's uh, not quite positive, as such ... although apparently recent polls have rated Italian food as American's #1 "comfort food" of choice.
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Pauline
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What the americans think of the belgians ? One person told me, that they think we all are criminals LOL !!! 
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Porthos
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I think our view of Belgians is overly influenced by a man named "Dr. Evil".
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Fredrik
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Interesting discussion here!
I have always found "Anglo-Saxon" to be a convenient (though not 100 % correct) description of the dominant global culture that is based on the English language, and to a lesser extent, English-based culture. What for me defines a modern Anglo-Saxon is a person who easily can become a global player, because they know the language and the codes. I think that Anglo-Saxons often forget that everybody doesn't speak English as their primary language, something which gives the Anglo-Saxon a huge advantage and kind of sets them apart in a way that is quite obvious to the rest of us, but which the Anglo-Saxons won't admit.
Anglo-Saxons can just speak their mind. Scandinavians (and other hang-ons to the Anglo-Saxon world) must think twice. And others know neither English nor Hollywood and are just left out.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Fredrik wrote: | | (and other hang-ons to the Anglo-Saxon world) |
LOL — sorry, I thought that was really funny.
| Quote: | | And others know neither English nor Hollywood and are just left out. |
Surprisingly, I don't know Holywood either, lol.
One of my main objections is with the idea that there is a typical 'Anglo-Saxon' attitude to business and money. The rest of the world aside, Britain (especially England) is still a very class-ridden country — to a very large extent, people here stay with their own 'kind', so to speak. Of course, a lot of people won't admit this, because it isn't politically correct, but it is the reality in my experience. If I am to be honest, I really do not feel much sense of common identity with working class British people, even though I value their place within society. And to be honest, I do not believe that I am an exception for having that attitude. Each social class (no, there are not just 'three' of these) is distinct, and maintains its own identity with its own typical values. Problems and confusion arise when British people attempt to perceive the behaviour and attitudes of their own social background as typical for Britain in general. This is not helped by non-British people who sometimes inappropriately desire to see 'British people' as a coherent entity, thereby creating a stereotype which combines characteristics from different social classes in a way which do not generally coexist in real life.
For example, it is an oversimplification to depict a typically 'Southern British' business-middle-class individualist outlook as being typical for 'Anglo-Saxon' society in general. There is also a 'Northern Britain', which arguably has a somewhat more 'Scandinavian' approach to life. Then we also have differences based upon social class (linked to the North-South divide in many ways): The 'business middle class' people are the people who are (surprise surprise) very business-orientated, with an obvious interest in money. These are the people who make London a major financial centre, and it is their success which may make Britain seem like a very business/money-orientated society in general. But they are only a relatively small part of the picture. I am from a 'professional middle class' background — refers largely to university-educated people who are teachers etc. and are generally not so interested in business or making a lot of money, let alone talking about it. Most people I associate with are from this sort of background — this is symbolised by the fact that most people I know read either the Guardian or the Independent, even though the combined daily circulation of those newspapers is only about 600,000. Then you also have various types of working class people (the majority), plus a few upper class people, who would have different sorts of views again.
The problem with describing Britain as a highly business/money-orientated society (compared to other Western countries) is that it presents a Britain which many British people cannot identify with.
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Uriel
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We really have no conception of Belgians, Pauline. Sorry. 
We can try to think something up, if it makes you happy....
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fab
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| Quote: | The problem with describing Britain as a highly business/money-orientated society (compared to other Western countries) is that it presents a Britain which many British people cannot identify with.
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That is the problem of all stereotypes and generalisations. Describing France as a good food country exclude the millions of people that goes to fast foods... Or describing france as a country where people smell exclude the clean-obessed people that take three showers a day...
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fab
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| Quote: | Likewise, the stereotypical view here of Italians is very different from stereotypical view of French people. Essentially, you could say that the image which people have of Italians is almost entirely positive (and somewhat naive and outdated), whilst the image of French people combines both positive and negatives attributes (also somewhat outdated, often stemming from the days of Charles de Gaulle).
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mafia is not considered to be a negative stereotypical view ?!
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Fredrik
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| Benjamin wrote: | | Fredrik wrote: | | (and other hang-ons to the Anglo-Saxon world) |
LOL — sorry, I thought that was really funny. |
Ooops, no doubt, because I meant "hangaround". At least in Norway we think that is an English word for "wannabe", I hope it is...?
Very informative reply, Benjamin. I absolutely agree. What we non-Anglos perceive as Anglo-Saxon is of course highly coloured by those Anglo-Saxons who operate on a global scale, and that certainly doesn't include a retired miner in Co. Durham who lives very "Scandinavian", as you put it, lol!
BTW I always think "typically Anglo-Saxon" when i watch BBC and they interview someone in Faraway-stan (as we say in Norwegian) in English, even if the interview object obviously is not very good at English, so that they end up sounding simple. Can't they understand that the person could give a much more intelligent answer in their mother tongue, I always think.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| fab wrote: | | mafia is not considered to be a negative stereotypical view ?! |
The Mafia is associated strongly with Sicily (at least here), which isn't always automatically associated with Italy as a whole. I'd imagine that it's a bit like how French stereotypes of British people might not necessarily include things which are largely specific to Northern Ireland.
But actually, I don't ever really hear people talking about the Mafia these days.
| Fredrik wrote: | | Benjamin wrote: | | Fredrik wrote: | | (and other hang-ons to the Anglo-Saxon world) |
LOL — sorry, I thought that was really funny. |
Ooops, no doubt, because I meant "hangaround". At least in Norway we think that is an English word for "wannabe", I hope it is...? |
Actually, 'hang-ons' is fine as well. I just thought that the idea of Scandinavians being 'Anglo-Saxon' wannabes was rather amusing.
| Quote: | | Very informative reply, Benjamin. I absolutely agree. What we non-Anglos perceive as Anglo-Saxon is of course highly coloured by those Anglo-Saxons who operate on a global scale, and that certainly doesn't include a retired miner in Co. Durham who lives very "Scandinavian", as you put it, lol! |
And of course, those who operate on a global scale (i.e. those who wish to pursue large-scale business interests) are only a very small minority, and are not in any sense representative of British people as a whole. And in terms of inter-European tourism, we should probably also point out that the sort of British people who'd go on holiday to Norway are on the whole very different from the sort of British people who'd go on holiday to Ibiza — this may partly explain why Northern Europeans often seem to have a much more positive opinion British people than Southern Europeans often do.
As for the 'Scandinavianness', I was perhaps thinking more of Scotland than of County Durham. Which reminds me... I was in Durham a few months ago — lovely place, but I'm not convinced that the local people actually speak English to each-other most of the time. I certainly couldn't understand what they were saying to each-other on the street, anyway!
| Quote: | | BTW I always think "typically Anglo-Saxon" when i watch BBC and they interview someone in Faraway-stan (as we say in Norwegian) in English, even if the interview object obviously is not very good at English, so that they end up sounding simple. Can't they understand that the person could give a much more intelligent answer in their mother tongue, I always think. |
I actually wonder if there is a (misguided) assumption that Pakistanis all speak English, because it's a former British colony. Similar to how India is sometimes described as 'the largest English-speaking country in the world'.
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fab
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| Quote: | The Mafia is associated strongly with Sicily (at least here), which isn't always automatically associated with Italy as a whole. I'd imagine that it's a bit like how French stereotypes of British people might not necessarily include things which are largely specific to Northern Ireland.
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Unfortunally Mafia has not been and is not limited to sicily. All southern Italy's regions has its own mafias, called Camora in Naples. In Corsica, a lot of independentists groups use mafia methods.
In the cote d'azur and the Marseille region, we had (and still have), mafia-style groups. Since a few years there have been some efforts to eradicate it, but it still be strong, especially in Nice and Marseille. The "french connexion" in the 70's was a mafia-style group.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| fab wrote: | Unfortunally Mafia has not been and is not limited to sicily. All southern Italy's regions has its own mafias, called Camora in Naples. In Corsica, a lot of independentists groups use mafia methods.
In the cote d'azur and the Marseille region, we had (and still have), mafia-style groups. Since a few years there have been some efforts to eradicate it, but it still be strong, especially in Nice and Marseille. The "french connexion" in the 70's was a mafia-style group. |
Fair enough. But for one reason or another, they are largely ignored here today. I cannot imagine that many people here think 'Mafia' when they think of Italy.
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greg in noord-frankrijk
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Re: The French use the word "Anglo-Saxon" a lot... | Porthos wrote: | | I've asked this question of French people before, and the response is usually a vague one. |
Non, on t'a fourni des réponses extrêmement claires et précises à de nombreuses reprises. Mais comme tu ne comprends pas le français, la voici en anglais.
Fr <(A)(a)nglo-saxon(ne)> applies to anything or anybody specifically considered as being a part of a country/system best and/or primarily defined as being English-speaking.
Other defintions may apply : mix of medieval Germanic ethnies who settled in Great-Britain, for instance.
Exemples :
littérature anglo-saxonne
comptabilité anglo-saxonne
droit anglo-saxon
capitalisme anglo-saxon
conception anglo-saxonne
puritanisme anglo-saxon
etc.
It goes without saying that you may be anglo-saxon whatever your skin-colour.
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Uriel
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| Quote: | | BTW I always think "typically Anglo-Saxon" when i watch BBC and they interview someone in Faraway-stan (as we say in Norwegian) in English, even if the interview object obviously is not very good at English, so that they end up sounding simple. |
I think the BBC likes to do that to anyone they get their hands on. It seems to pass for journalism there to simply put people on the spot and watch them squirm.
The mafia is about as popularly associated with Italians as spaghetti, in the US. I don't know that most people actually take it that seriously, though, even the though the mafia is very much alive and well in the US. I know whenever I hear that some Italian anti-defamation league is taking umbrage with the Sopranos again, I have to roll my eyes and think, Get a life! It's just a TV show, for chrissake....
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Loic
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I think that the BBC is just unconsciously making a point that English is such an international language and that in turn, reflects upon the international status of the BBC as a global vehicle for news broadcasting.
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Uriel
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No, I meant that I once saw them torment a poor nervous American on camera just to make him look stupid. I bet they had interviewed fifty other people who were much more articulate than he was, but they deliberately chose him to put on the newscast. And he, of course, spoke perfect English -- that wasn't the problem. It was more that they wanted to reinforce the idea that Americans are stupid.
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Deborah
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Living in NYC, in Little Italy, I definitely associated the Mafia with Italians -- or Little Italians, anyway.
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Porthos
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Oh, I love Little Italy in New York. That place is big pimpin! Of course, I'm like the ultimate Italian food lover.
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Deborah
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| Porthos wrote: | | Oh, I love Little Italy in New York. That place is big pimpin! Of course, I'm like the ultimate Italian food lover. |
I didn't each much Italian food when I was there because it was too expensive. I usually went further downtown to Chinatown.
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