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André in Zuid-Afrika

The gay thread

I think we need this...

Background info....

The gay flag...






The gay anthem...

Hi - Hi! We're your Weather Girls - Ah-huh -
And have we got news for you - You better listen!
Get ready, all you lonely girls
and leave those umbrellas at home. - Alright! -

Humidity is rising - Barometer's getting low
According to all sources, the street's the place to go
Cause tonight for the first time
Just about half-past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining men.

It's Raining Men! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Men! Amen!
I'm gonna go out to run and let myself get
Absolutely soaking wet!
It's Raining Men! Hallelujah!
It's Raining Men! Every Specimen!
Tall, blonde, dark and lean
Rough and tough and strong and mean

God bless Mother Nature, she's a single woman too
She took off to heaven and she did what she had to do
She taught every angel to rearrange the sky
So that each and every woman could find her perfect guy
It's Raining Men! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Men! Amen!
It's Raining Men! Hallelujah!
It's Raining Men! Ame---------nnnn!

I feel stormy weather / Moving in about to begin
Hear the thunder / Don't you lose your head
Rip off the roof and stay in bed

God bless Mother Nature, she's a single woman too
She took off to heaven and she did what she had to do
She taught every angel to rearrange the sky
So that each and every woman could find her perfect guy
It's Raining Men! Yeah!

Humidity is rising - Barometer's getting low
According to all sources, the street's the place to go
Cause tonight for the first time
Just about half-past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining men.

It's Raining Men! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Men! Amen!
It's Raining Men! Hallelujah! - It's Raining Men!


Our esteemed leader in his official outfit...



A typical gay hunk...

Porthos

You don't have to answer if this comes across as too personal Andre, but would you say you are percieved as rather "fem" or do you conduct yourself like any 'ol heterosexual man? I would never have guessed that you were gay, by your face, the shirt you wear in your pic, and the fact that you are very into sports.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Porthos wrote:
You don't have to answer if this comes across as too personal Andre, but would you say you are percieved as rather "fem" or do you conduct yourself like any 'ol heterosexual man? I would never have guessed that you were gay, by your face, the shirt you wear in your pic, and the fact that you are very into sports.


Don't worry, I don't mind answering! I'm a man - who is attracted to other men. No, I'm not perceived by others as "fem" and I am not "fem". Very few people I meet know I'm gay unless I tell them.
Porthos

So, you're not in the least atttracted to women? Please don't assume my question is an attempt at mocking you. I'm being sincere. For me, being with a man is repulsive. Is that how you feel about the thought of being with a woman? As a heterosexual, it's hard for me to imagine it being anything otherwise, but I'm sure you feel the opposite.

It seems like most gay people I come accross wish they were the opposite sex in a way, as if they feel like they were born in the wrong body. Is this how the majority of gay people feel?
Uriel

Ah, this old chestnut again? I wondered when it would rise up again! (No pun intended or implied, and any resemblance to actual humor is merely coincidental, of course!)



Quote:
So, you're not in the least atttracted to women?


Andre is deeply attracted to Elaine. And Deborah. And me, of course....


Quote:
Please don't assume my question is an attempt at mocking you. I'm being sincere. For me, being with a man is repulsive. Is that how you feel about the thought of being with a woman? As a heterosexual, it's hard for me to imagine it being anything otherwise, but I'm sure you feel the opposite.


Sex is sex, buddy. It all feels good...

Quote:
It seems like most gay people I come accross wish they were the opposite sex in a way, as if they feel like they were born in the wrong body. Is this how the majority of gay people feel?


That is not how most gay people feel at all, Porthos. That's how transgendered people feel, and that's a completely different phenomenon called gender dysphoria. Homosexuals still identify strongly with their own gender -- they feel just as much like a man or a woman as a heterosexual man or woman does, and don't hate their bodies at all (well, at least if they do, it's for the same reasons the rest of us hate our bodies -- flab, bald spots, hair in the all the wrong places, things sagging where we don't want them to, etc.)
André in Zuid-Afrika

Uriel wrote:
Ah, this old chestnut again? I wondered when it would rise up again! (No pun intended or implied, and any resemblance to actual humor is merely coincidental, of course!)



Quote:
So, you're not in the least atttracted to women?


Andre is deeply attracted to Elaine. And Deborah. And me, of course....


Of course!

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
Please don't assume my question is an attempt at mocking you. I'm being sincere. For me, being with a man is repulsive. Is that how you feel about the thought of being with a woman? As a heterosexual, it's hard for me to imagine it being anything otherwise, but I'm sure you feel the opposite.


Sex is sex, buddy. It all feels good...


Well....

Uriel wrote:
Quote:
It seems like most gay people I come accross wish they were the opposite sex in a way, as if they feel like they were born in the wrong body. Is this how the majority of gay people feel?


That is not how most gay people feel at all, Porthos. That's how transgendered people feel, and that's a completely different phenomenon called gender dysphoria. Homosexuals still identify strongly with their own gender -- they feel just as much like a man or a woman as a heterosexual man or woman does, and don't hate their bodies at all (well, at least if they do, it's for the same reasons the rest of us hate our bodies -- flab, bald spots, hair in the all the wrong places, things sagging where we don't want them to, etc.)


Perfectly said!
patriccke

Re: The gay thread

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
The gay anthem...

I love that song but I would say our anthem is I will survive (though the lyrics of I am what I am make it a better candidate)
patriccke

Porthos wrote:
It seems like most gay people I come accross wish they were the opposite sex in a way, as if they feel like they were born in the wrong body. Is this how the majority of gay people feel?

The only people I know who felt that way are transexual, not gay. As for me I like too much male bodies not to want to have one on my own!!!
André in Zuid-Afrika

Re: The gay thread

patriccke wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
The gay anthem...

I love that song but I would say our anthem is I will survive (though the lyrics of I am what I am make it a better candidate)


Ah yes, both of those are close contenders! In South Africa we've been having it so easy recently that I will survive doesn't really seem relevant anymore... Sometimes I miss the days when we were still fighting for basic recognision.... Now we have to really finecomb legislation to find something to bitch about... And it's become fashionable to be gay... or at least have a gay son/daughter... It's becoming boring now...
patriccke

Yep. So fashionable that in some gay parties the real issue is to find a gay guy
Uriel

Those damn freeloading bisexuals can sure mess up a good cocktail party, eh?

And I thought the anthem was We Are Family by Sister Sledge.....at least, that was a great scene in The Birdcage!
patriccke

In Italy, there's no doubt about which is the gay athem: Raffaella Carrà, Tanti Auguri (by the way she was born in Bologna )



Com’è bello far l’amore da Trieste in giù,
com’è bello far l’amore io son pronta, e tu?
tanti auguri, a chi tanti amanti ha,
tanti auguri, in campagna ed in città.
Com’è bello far l’amore da Trieste in giù,
l’importante farlo sempre con chi hai voglia tu,
e se ti lascia lo sai che si fa...
trovi un altro più bello, che problemi non ha.

How nice it is to make love from Trieste downwards,
how nice it is to make love I'm ready, and you?
best wishes to who's got many lovers,
best wishes in the country and in the city,
How nice it is to make love from Trieste downwards,
the most important is to make it with who YOU want,
and he leaves you you know what to do,
find a better looking one who hasn't got problems
Porthos

So then why do so many gay people act like the opposite sex, as if they're trying to be a woman or vice versa?
Daniel

I'm gay and have been for as long as I can remember.

No one can guess or tell I'm gay from the way I behave because I'm masculine in my nature and look masculine - that's because I am a man!

People get shocked when I tell them I'm gay as they just can't guess it. But come on, they should be able to tell because I get on with girls like a house on fire. But is often what gives them the wrong idea (that I am a ladies' man, until I correct them by stating that I am more of a laddies' man than a ladies' man - hehe).

Every gay person is individual so I can't really say how or what the majority of gay people feel even in the most general way but I can tell you how and what I feel.

I don't feel feminine at all and I feel very comfortable with my sexuality and with myself, just like how you would feel about yours. I can't imagine being with a woman, let alone doing er... you know... that thing with a woman.

I think the most important thing that needs to be stressed is that, contrary to popular belief, homosexuality is not a choice, never has been. Otherwise, I would not be choosing this in order to go through hell of being verbally, mentally and even physically tortured and ridiculed by my bullies. It just comes naturally to you.
Elaine

patriccke wrote:
How nice it is to make love from Trieste downwards,
how nice it is to make love I'm ready, and you?


So if one were say, in Trento-- it wouldn't be so nice to make love?

Quote:
and he leaves you you know what to do,
find a better looking one who hasn't got problems


Ah, my sentiments exactly! Where would I find this song?
greg in noord-frankrijk

Porthos wrote:
So then why do so many gay people act like the opposite sex, as if they're trying to be a woman or vice versa?


It's the *like* which, I think, matters most, doesn't it ?

André in Zuid-Afrika

Just voted the sexiest man in South Africsa (third time in a row) on the gay website mambaonline.com

Stefan Ludik, actor, originally from Namibia, now living in Johannesburg.



Uriel

Oh, my.... Hope he goes both ways -- I'm fanning myself right now!
Elaine

Not big news since everybody in town knew, but Doogie Howser announced that he's gay.



Actually I think he's grown up to be a fine looking man.
Fredrik

Recently I got an idea for a TV sitcom that can make us rich (and secure us financial aid frim the Dutch tourist authorities):

Imagine a kind of Dutch "Will and Grace" + "Sex and the City" + "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"", but one that was willing to milk the socalled female gaze that has come more and more in focus since "Brokeback Mountain" by having as its main character a ridiculously cute gay couple in their 20s (e.g. Wim & Kees ), living in a ridiculously cute brick house by a canal in beautiful Amstrerdam, having ridiculously cute Dutch jobs as for example a guide in the Rijkksmuseum and a florist and featuring a lot of jealous girls trying to seduce one of our cute heroes and nearly managing to, before he comes to his senses again and bike home on the cobbled streets of Amsterdam for some wholesome gay cuddling!

I think it would easily win over the whole female audience, from Dawsons Creek addicted teens to sex-starved carreer women, who would pant over the scenes where our heroes flash lots of skin and male anatomy while they pillow talk in sexy, guttural Dutch. And of course there would be the occasional gay viewer... Perhaps it would even be aired in South Africa and the US, for André's delight and Porthos' education!
Uriel

Well, damn, Elaine, that blows my image of him in Kumar and Whoever Go To White Castle! Thanks a lot!

Sexy, gutteral Dutch, huh? ... is Dutch sexy? I don't remember it being especially gutteral....
André in Zuid-Afrika

Uriel wrote:
Oh, my.... Hope he goes both ways -- I'm fanning myself right now!


Actually he only goes one way - straight...

Quote:
Stefan Ludik is Mambaonline’s Sexiest Man of 2006 - as voted by an overwhelming majority of you out there. He was followed by up-and-coming actor Izak Davel in second place and Survivor’s Sam Allerton in third.

To be honest, I was relieved that Stefan won; I knew that his manager was gay and Stefan has long been accessible to his queer fanbase. Thus I wouldn’t have much of a problem arranging an interview.

Stefan Ludik first came to our attention thanks to his turn as a housemate - representing Namibia - in Big Brother Africa in 2003. Without a doubt, the best looking man to inhabit the Big Brother house in South Africa, his blonde good looks, contagious smile and easy nature made him an instant favourite of any admirer of the male specimen. For many, there was little point in continuing to follow the show after he was tragically voted out.

Stefan next showed up in the daily M-Net soap Egoli, as the lawyer Werner Kranz. And while the show is not particularly demanding on the thespian front, Stefan has shown a natural ease with the camera over the last few years.

I have an appointment with 25 year old Stefan at the Johannesburg studios where Egoli is shot. He meets me for lunch at the studio restaurant, still wearing television make-up - giving him a slightly dull look in real life. The base and powder don’t disguise the fact that he’s a very handsome man indeed.

Stefan notices me looking at scrapes on his knuckles and assures me that “It’s not from fighting”, explaining that they come from working out with a kickboxing bag at the gym.

I’m surprised by the fact that he seems very shy, slightly hesitant and perhaps even a little nervous. He claims later that he is by nature a shy person; “I’m an introvert actually,” he insists. And I believe him.

Stefan says that he never imaged that he’d ever be where is now while growing up in remote Namibia. He always wanted to be a performer; dreaming rock star dreams while listening to the band that inspired him to start making music: Queen. “I learnt all the words to their songs”, he exclaims.

But the reality was that Windhoek was far away from the spotlight, and on advice from his dad (who’s a head honcho at Namibia’s criminal forensic services), he studied forensic sciences. Proving that’s he’s not just brawn, he qualified in Psycho-Physiological Detection of Deception, registered with the American Polygraph Association and started his own business, Invictus Intelligence.

He describes the work of putting people - mostly company employees suspected of theft and spouses accused of cheating - through lie detectors tests as “a really interesting job. But there’s so much responsibility and stress on your shoulders.” That stress included regular death threats from disgruntled people that he’d catch out with his polygraph machine.

Big Brother was an opportunity to break out into the entertainment world. “I watched Big Brother [South Africa] 1 and it had cool tasks and stuff and I thought it would be a cool competition,“ says Stefan. He adds that he was shocked at the media frenzy when he left the house: “You’re in the house after 106 days and it’s a totally different picture from when you went in.” He insists that the experience “didn’t change me as a person. I never take myself too seriously.”

Looking back, Stefan muses that Big Brother Africa was more than just an excuse to watch people shagging and getting drunk because “it was the first continental one – we didn’t just sit around and drink. We did some cool stuff and some important things in terms of promoting African unity.”

After the show, he surprised just about everyone by snagging a role in Egoli – in the process becoming one of the few reality TV stars in South Africa to maintain some kind of career in the entertainment business after the usually-fleeting fame.

"To be chosen by the gay community... That’s a real compliment!" - Stefan


He says that he was nervous, but not star-struck when he showed up for his first day on set; he’s not much of a TV fan, and he’d never really watched Egoli before, “...so I didn’t know most of the actors. A soap is a strange thing to get used to - to learn soap acting. But I was just thrown into the deep end.”

And while’s he’s become a star, now based in Johannesburg, he returns to Namibia once a month to visit his parents: “My mother’s my agent in Namibia so when she wants to see me she arranges a gig over there.” He describes his upbringing as being liberal and open-minded, explaining that, “My parents are very young; they’re like my best friends. We party together, we can tell dirty jokes together…”

Stefan admits some frustration at having to put his musical career - his real passion he enthuses - on hold because of the show, describing Egoli as a full time job. In fact, I get the distinct impression that he’s somewhat bored by the routine acting in the soap. He says that he aims to focus on a new album in 2007, which he excitedly claims includes the first real hit song he’s written.

When asked what the worst part of what he does is, he blurts out: “The times! Getting up early every morning, sometimes just before six. That’s the worst for me. I can deal with everything else”, he says laughing. When it comes to the best aspect of being an actor and singer, he says that it’s undoubtedly “getting positive feedback from people about what you do.”

But he admits that the spotlight can also take its toll: “Things are blown out of proportion - all the speculation about what you’re doing and it’s actually totally different from what’s happening in your life.” He tells me about the bizarre letters he’s received from fans, including genuine marriage proposals and even a middle aged woman’s demand that he send her explicit nude pictures of himself. He adds matter-of-factly that he didn’t comply.

When it comes to the matter of his gay fan-base Stefan - who’s performed as a singer at gay clubs such as Pretoria’s Legends - declares that he’s highly appreciative of our uncontrollable swooning at his presence: “Since Big Brother I’ve had a lot of support from gay people. It’s a great audience to have”, he says.

And what about being voted as Mambaonline’s Sexiest Man of the Year? “It’s very cool. It’s flattering and I enjoy the attention. It’s nice to get recognition for what you’re doing and it’s even more flattering to be seen as ‘the sexiest man’.” He grins, adding, “I have a lot of friends who are gay and they have great taste in everything. So to be chosen by the gay community... That’s a real compliment!”

On the subject of same-sex marriage, Stefan shrugs at the furor around its legalisation, saying that he supports gay marriage: “I think it’s just another form of love…” While he may not bat for our team, he shows his metrosexual colours by admitting that in his spare time, aside from working on his music, he enjoys a good restaurant and shopping!

When it comes to relationships, Stefan describes himself as a romantic, claiming that he’d happily serenade a girl, although confessing that at the moment he’s single. Stefan concedes that relationships can be difficult as a celebrity, especially when dating someone in the entertainment industry. “It’s worse [than dating someone outside the industry]”, he says, “because of your schedules - you don’t see each other at all.”

Before we finish lunch it occurs to Stefan that his Sexiest Man status does have its downside. “It’s putting a little pressure on me actually”, he says smiling, “Now I have to work out even harder when I go to gym.” I ask - “And If you let yourself go?” He reacts by laughing, “Then it’s… 'he USED to be the sexiest man'! The pressure’s really on now.”

André in Zuid-Afrika

Fredrik wrote:
Recently I got an idea for a TV sitcom that can make us rich (and secure us financial aid frim the Dutch tourist authorities):

Imagine a kind of Dutch "Will and Grace" + "Sex and the City" + "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"", but one that was willing to milk the socalled female gaze that has come more and more in focus since "Brokeback Mountain" by having as its main character a ridiculously cute gay couple in their 20s (e.g. Wim & Kees ), living in a ridiculously cute brick house by a canal in beautiful Amstrerdam, having ridiculously cute Dutch jobs as for example a guide in the Rijkksmuseum and a florist and featuring a lot of jealous girls trying to seduce one of our cute heroes and nearly managing to, before he comes to his senses again and bike home on the cobbled streets of Amsterdam for some wholesome gay cuddling!

I think it would easily win over the whole female audience, from Dawsons Creek addicted teens to sex-starved carreer women, who would pant over the scenes where our heroes flash lots of skin and male anatomy while they pillow talk in sexy, guttural Dutch. And of course there would be the occasional gay viewer... Perhaps it would even be aired in South Africa and the US, for André's delight and Porthos' education!



Hm, interesting idea... Except that Dutch gay guys are never cute!

For some reason they tend to look like this...

Sander

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:


Hm, interesting idea... Except that Dutch gay guys are never cute!


Yuk, gay parades ... talking about reinforcing stigmas

I think the Netherland, is the country (for now) and Amsterdam the capital of the homosexuals. Gay tv-shows, newspapers, clubs, soccer teams (including a gay soccer league) just about everthing.

I think what attracts most foreign gays is that they don't get looks here, I remember some canadian gay say that he loved to walk hand in hand with his friend through ther streets of Amsterdam and feel totally unnoticed ... I can imagine this.
Fredrik

Porthos wrote:
It seems like most gay people I come accross wish they were the opposite sex in a way, as if they feel like they were born in the wrong body.


Porthos:
I think you have put your finger on the main source for homophobia: The belief that gays are feminine men who let themselves be dominated by other men.
After having given it some thought, I have concluded that the idea of being dominated by another man is what most (heterosexual) men fear most and thus consider most disgusting and condemnable and throughout history they have come up with all sorts of ideologies to gloss over the fact that they are other men's bitches: Feudalism, patriotism, Nazism, supporting a sports team etc.
greg in noord-frankrijk

Elaine wrote:
Not big news since everybody in town knew, but Doogie Howser announced that he's gay.


Elaine, who is Doogie Howser ?
Pauline

message deleted
Fredrik

Censored!

Now you can just wonder how naughty this post was.....
Pauline

message deletd
Pauline

Sorry, I haven't included it before : if someone would prefer to not tell, or they don't know, then I will put in this category.
Pauline

message deleted
Benjamin [inactive]

I thought Sander said that he was gay when we had this discussion before, but I must have been wrong. I'm pretty sure that loic is straight, although he could theoretically be bisexual, I suppose.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Sander wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:


Hm, interesting idea... Except that Dutch gay guys are never cute!


Yuk, gay parades ... talking about reinforcing stigmas


JA!!! Which is why I strongly oppose them, and refuse to attend the local parades. I have no objection to the after parties, though...

Quote:
I think the Netherland, is the country (for now) and Amsterdam the capital of the homosexuals. Gay tv-shows, newspapers, clubs, soccer teams (including a gay soccer league) just about everthing.

I think what attracts most foreign gays is that they don't get looks here, I remember some canadian gay say that he loved to walk hand in hand with his friend through ther streets of Amsterdam and feel totally unnoticed ... I can imagine this.


True. Amsterdam is widely considered to be the gay capital of the world.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Benjamin wrote:
I thought Sander said that he was gay when we had this discussion before, but I must have been wrong. I'm pretty sure that loic is straight, although he could theoretically be bisexual, I suppose.


Hm, you haven't been paying attention. Sander's straight, although he's totally gay friendly.
Loic

Benjamin is right about his analysis on me.

But I thought Patriccke was strictly homosexual. It is a bit of a revelation to me that he's bi. Oh well, that just increases his odds of a date on a Saturday night.
KSa

As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.
Deborah

KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.
KSa

Deborah wrote:
KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.

Yes, but it's a bit strange when children, before sexual maturation is completed, decisively acknowledge that they are asexual.
Pauline

message deleted
Pauline

KSa wrote:
it's a bit strange when children, before sexual maturation is completed, decisively acknowledge that they are asexual.


I think, that if we want a more tolerant world, it is important that everyone can say about themself the truth, without fear that for something not possible to change and not their fault, they will be bullied, mocked etc...Just for be different that the most of people and therefore be categorised weird, strange isn't nice, and therefore, usually the people don't say nothing, but Benjamin is courageous. It's possible accept what he says, no ? It didn't shocked or surprised me at all. It's unusual but why it's strange ?

Also, I find 17 is not a child ; for me, a child is until about 11 year-old. If you find strange that he say he's asexual so young, why you don't find strange that Porthos and I say our sexuality - we are younger ?
Sander

Deborah wrote:
KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.


You never even had that "biological kick" that sudden almost intinctic urge to reproduce?
Benjamin [inactive]

KSa wrote:
Deborah wrote:
KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.

Yes, but it's a bit strange when children, before sexual maturation is completed, decisively acknowledge that they are asexual.

It's entirely about how I feel now. At the moment, I am asexual. It's the same with Josh/Porthos (or ultimately anyone else) -- at the moment, he his heterosexual. Perhaps later on he will develop a sexual interest in men, either in addition to or to the exclusion of his interest in women, although it doesn't seem very likely.
KSa

Pauline wrote:
KSa wrote:
it's a bit strange when children, before sexual maturation is completed, decisively acknowledge that they are asexual.


I think, that if we want a more tolerant world, it is important that everyone can say about themself the truth, without fear that for something not possible to change and not their fault, they will be bullied, mocked etc...Just for be different that the most of people and therefore be categorised weird, strange isn't nice, and therefore, usually the people don't say nothing, but Benjamin is courageous. It's possible accept what he says, no ? It didn't shocked or surprised me at all. It's unusual but why it's strange ?

Also, I find 17 is not a child ; for me, a child is until about 11 year-old. If you find strange that he say he's asexual so young, why you don't find strange that Porthos and I say our sexuality - we are younger ?


Pauline, I didn't say that asexuality is strange but that stating one's asexuality while being not completely matured is strange.
KSa

Benjamin wrote:
KSa wrote:
Deborah wrote:
KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.

Yes, but it's a bit strange when children, before sexual maturation is completed, decisively acknowledge that they are asexual.

It's entirely about how I feel now. At the moment, I am asexual. It's the same with Josh/Porthos (or ultimately anyone else) -- at the moment, he his heterosexual. Perhaps later on he will develop a sexual interest in men, either in addition to or to the exclusion of his interest in women, although it doesn't seem very likely.


Ben,
I think you can make a mistake if just categorize yourself to the asexual orientation group and do nothing. If I were you I would wait 1 year and if still nothing happens I would consult a doctor. If he says that there is nothing left to do then - OK. On the other hand, it's maybe just some hormone deficiencies that may be easily cured.
Benjamin [inactive]

KSa wrote:
Ben,
I think you can make a mistake if just categorize yourself to the asexual orientation group and do nothing. If I were you I would wait 1 year and if still nothing happens I would consult a doctor. If he says that there is nothing left to do then - OK. On the other hand, it's maybe just some hormone deficiencies that may be easily cured.



Essentially, you believe that I ought to consider my lack of interest in sex as a 'problem' which I should try to have 'cured'. However, I do not see it that way — I really have no desire for change because I don't particularly want to become interested in sex (in the same way that I do not 'want' to become a football fan as such).

Inject myself with testosterone... that's something that people suggest to me all the time. Yes, I probably do have a lower hormone level than most people. But that doesn't mean that I see that as a problem — why should I?
KSa

Benjamin wrote:
KSa wrote:
Ben,
I think you can make a mistake if just categorize yourself to the asexual orientation group and do nothing. If I were you I would wait 1 year and if still nothing happens I would consult a doctor. If he says that there is nothing left to do then - OK. On the other hand, it's maybe just some hormone deficiencies that may be easily cured.



Essentially, you believe that I ought to consider my lack of interest in sex as a 'problem' which I should try to have 'cured'. However, I do not see it that way — I really have no desire for change because I don't particularly want to become interested in sex (in the same way that I do not 'want' to become a football fan as such).

Inject myself with testosterone... that's something that people suggest to me all the time. Yes, I probably do have a lower hormone level than most people. But that doesn't mean that I see that as a problem — why should I?


Well, after giving a thought I would say that I am jealous - when I recall how much time I wasted chasing after girls... How many useful things I might have done I am sure I could have learned at least one language
On the other hand you should realize that you may be losing quite important and pleasant part of life...
Benjamin [inactive]

KSa wrote:
Well, after giving a thought I would say that I am jealous - when I recall how much time I wasted chasing after girls... How many useful things I might have done

LOL

Quote:
I am sure I could have learned at least one language

Well that's what I do, lol.

Quote:
On the other hand you should realize that you may be losing quite important and pleasant part of life...

I realise that I seem to be 'missing' something, since almost everyone else is interested in sex — everyone else talks about it (whether they've had it or not), whilst I can't. But ultimately, I don't see this any differently from the fact that I'm unable to join in conversations about football, because I'm not interested in that either.
KSa

Basically, I don't mean that you should do anything about it but I feel a sort of obligation to encourage you to do so because I know that you would feel happier. In the same way, I would encourage people who were born deaf to try to change it even though they could say they are happy and they don't need it.
Fredrik

KSa wrote:

Well, after giving a thought I would say that I am jealous - when I recall how much time I wasted chasing after girls...


What KSa? You are a man!!! LOL! I don´know why, but my mental image of you was firmly feminine. Time for an adjustment...
Deborah

Sander wrote:
Deborah wrote:
KSa wrote:
As for Benjamin, I think he is too young to decisively define his sexuality.

He might change -- anything can happen -- but I wouldn't say that his age is a reason to discount something he feels. Sometimes people know things about themselves at a very early age. When I was still a child, I knew, more certainly than I ever knew anything, that I would never be interested in having kids. At 56, I still feel the same way.


You never even had that "biological kick" that sudden almost intinctic urge to reproduce?

Never. When I was with my first serious boyfriend, I had an intellectual curiousity about what sort of hair and eye color variations we would produce if we had 64 children, but in my mind they were born adult and promptly went their own way once I had recorded all the data.
Deborah

Fredrik wrote:
What KSa? You are a man!!! LOL! I don´know why, but my mental image of you was firmly feminine. Time for an adjustment...

Yeah, that was also my impression. Now I'll have to go back and read all your posts to see why I thought you were a woman. (Maybe because KSa ends in "a"?)
KSa


Yes, I'm a man. I'm sure this is "a" which made you think otherwise. To be honest, I don't know why I stuck to the end. I should reconsider changing my nickname or at least cutting off "a".
Fredrik

Oh, you sound awfully thorough, Deborah!

I think you are right about the a in the name. Add outspoken Catholicism, a very pro-life outlook + that feline mystery that always surrounds Slavs, and I get the mental image of a woman.

And perhaps the tone in your post was a bit traditionally, stereotypically feminine because you were defending yourself against rhetorical attacks from aggresive, godless males...
KSa

Fredrik wrote:
Oh, you sound awfully thorough, Deborah!

I think you are right about the a in the name. Add outspoken Catholicism, a very pro-life outlook + that feline mystery that always surrounds Slavs, and I get the mental image of a woman.

And perhaps the tone in your post was a bit traditionally, stereotypically feminine because you were defending yourself against rhetorical attacks from aggresive, godless males...


Quite interesting finding you have made on ... "The Gay thread"
Fredrik

Yeah, its strange, isn´t it. The mind works in mysterious ways. Although André for instance is being naughty posting half-naked pictures of hot Namibian men all the time, my mental image of him is very much shaped by his avatar picture, where he kind of watches over us with a masculinly confident, but benign paternal gaze.
And once you start thinking it´s kind of fun...
Of Deborah I have a rather maternal image, Uriel is more like the young aunt or work collegue, Elaine more the older cousin, Pauline the younger cousin, Porthos the little brother, greg the teacher, Sander, Benjamin, Walker and Harrenys more like regular mates and loic I have a hard time placing, probably because persons like him are rather seldom in my culture. fab and patrixcke are hard to place too. And if I have forgotten anyone it`s because they are enigmas, image-wise.
So, that was the glimpse into my brain...
And remember (if you feel offended, lol) that this is how you appear in my mind based on your Langcafé appearance. I am sure you all are quite different in reality.
Deborah

Fredrik wrote:
Of Deborah I have a rather maternal image.

Sander once said basically the same thing. It's ironic that I should project that, since I've never wanted to be a mother. I do have nurturing instincts, I suppose, but the recipients tend to be animals.
Fredrik

Hehe, of course all is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps Sander and I need to get out more among mature women, so that we don`t equate all nice, mature women with mothers!
greg in noord-frankrijk

Pauline wrote:
Mostly, I hate absolutly categorisation, but I will go against my own ethic this time

Si fait — mais qu'est-ce qui te pousse à pactiser avec ta haine absolue ?

Pauline wrote:
update :

Et à poursuivre dans cette voie ?
Pauline

greg,

I'm very sorry if you find that it wasn't nice to make this list. I thought, that it was just fun ; I didn't wanted be nasty or hurt some people.It's the gay thread, so I had the impression that it was a subject discussed very open.

You would prefer I will delete those messages ?

i'm sorry if it wasn't an acceptable idea. Proably it was stupid, so it's better I will delete them.

It's true I hate categorisation, so it was very wrong make the list, now I can see this. the update i made because there was some changes after it was told some people must be in a different group.

truly I'm sorry for upset you and all the others. it wasn't deliberatly and I hope you will feel more happy after I delete them (if I can ).
Fredrik

We know you did it with the best of intentions and I don´t mind. If people participate in a gay thread I think it´s naturally that their orientation is discussed, but it did strike me as a bit unorthodox to include people who had not posted on this thread in your list.

Pauline

I thought that i included only people who have told this things of themself, or people who have visited this thread. i'm very sorry.I have deleted all those messages. Sometimes i'm very stupid and people are geting annoyed.
Benjamin [inactive]

KSa wrote:
Basically, I don't mean that you should do anything about it but I feel a sort of obligation to encourage you to do so because I know that you would feel happier. In the same way, I would encourage people who were born deaf to try to change it even though they could say they are happy and they don't need it.

Yes, I understand your point. I can see some advantages to finding out if I'm hormone-deficient, as hormone replacement therapy might stop me from feeling so tired all the time.

Fredrik wrote:
and loic I have a hard time placing, probably because persons like him are rather seldom in my culture.

For me, loic is kind of like the recent Old Etonian who came from Singapore. Basically, the really posh, expensive a prestigious English private schools like Eton often recruit students from places like Hong Kong and Singapore, thus quite a high proportion of the pupils there are of that sort of origin. In general, I'd say that Loic's political views and his interest in cricket and rugby would be quite typical for someone who went to that sort of school. And as Uriel said on the old Langcafé — in many ways, he often seems like the most über-British person here.

Quote:
fab and patrixcke are hard to place too.

Fab reminds me of those eccentric rural Welsh people who vote for Plaid Cymru and talk obsessively about how wonderful Wales is all the time with a kind of 'little us' syndrome.
patriccke

loic wrote:
But I thought Patriccke was strictly homosexual. It is a bit of a revelation to me that he's bi. Oh well, that just increases his odds of a date on a Saturday night.

André in Zuid-Afrika

Fredrik wrote:
Yeah, its strange, isn´t it. The mind works in mysterious ways. Although André for instance is being naughty posting half-naked pictures of hot Namibian men all the time, my mental image of him is very much shaped by his avatar picture, where he kind of watches over us with a masculinly confident, but benign paternal gaze.



André in Zuid-Afrika

Fredrik wrote:
KSa wrote:

Well, after giving a thought I would say that I am jealous - when I recall how much time I wasted chasing after girls...


What KSa? You are a man!!! LOL! I don´know why, but my mental image of you was firmly feminine. Time for an adjustment...


You thought KSa's a woman? I assumed right from the start he's a man (one of the few times I actually got it right).
Loic

Ksa has always been a male to me as well. I suppose he must have mentioned girls at one juncture so I was never misled.

Benjamin: Lol. You make me sound very pompous.

Actually, I think that a low sex drive is a source of strength. Carnal desires are Man's primary weaknesses as they drive us to think irrationally. Sometimes, I do get awfully frustrated with myself for harbouring thoughts that are well, let's just say, distracting. It is sad, really.

Ben, have you ever considered being a priest? I do not know if it is the case in Britain or any other country in the Western Hemisphere, but it was not so long ago that a priest was an immense source of pride for the family. A mother is expected to have 3 sons: one to enter the civil service, one to enter the private sector while the youngest enters the priesthood. She'd have plenty of bragging rights when she goes to the market.

Patriccke: So you are really bisexual? How come you've never talked about girls before?
Uriel

Quote:
You never even had that "biological kick" that sudden almost intinctic urge to reproduce?


I'm 34, and I keep waiting for that maternal urge to kick in myself. Still hasn't....

(Young aunt, huh? I think I'm at least a good five years older than Elaine!)

I always thought Ksa was a man. Where did you get feminine out of conservative religious values? And what's so mysterious about Slavs?

Benjamin, I have no interest in football either -- yours or mine -- but once you've had a good roll in the hay, you'll know what all the fuss is about! Never having sex would be like never laughing again, or never seeing a beautiful sunset. I could pretty much live in bed (with occasional excursions onto the floor or across the kitchen table ). There's NOTHING good about abstinence -- it only makes me depressed when I can't get any!

Granted, if you've never had it, you don't know what you're missing, and so you don't miss it, of course. And I'm no doctor, but from a lot of what you've mentioned here and on the other forum I've assumed you have a very low sex drive, which would suggest a hormonal deficiency. Well, that's just part of the range of variability in human sexuality, and if you're happy there, it's certainly no skin off anyone else's teeth. I would even imagine that constantly being assaulted by messages of sexuality that you can't relate to as well as being seen as a curiosity by more sexually-oriented people probably makes you feel defensive -- look, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm perfectly fine -- and draw away from it even more -- a knee-jerk reaction.

But you're far from being the only one, of course. I once had a boyfriend who was great in all respects except one -- he was completely indifferent to sex. Hated to be bothered by it. Did it less and less as time wore on, until it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it, and finally he just stopped altogether. It was horrible, frustrating, completely nerve-wracking to constantly be rejected, to be denied that way of connecting and renewing your feelings. Psychologically and physically. I hated it. There's no having a relationship with someone when that kind of gulf exists between you.
Porthos

Quote:
I once had a boyfriend who was great in all respects except one -- he was completely indifferent to sex. Hated to be bothered by it. Did it less and less as time wore on, until it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it, and finally he just stopped altogether. It was horrible, frustrating, completely nerve-wracking to constantly be rejected, to be denied that way of connecting and renewing your feelings. Psychologically and physically. I hated it. There's no having a relationship with someone when that kind of gulf exists between you.


Your ex sounds nuts! Unless you were a 500 lbs old hag, I can't imagine your bf's attitude.
greg in noord-frankrijk

Pauline wrote:
greg,

I'm very sorry if you find that it wasn't nice to make this list. I thought, that it was just fun ; I didn't wanted be nasty or hurt some people.It's the gay thread, so I had the impression that it was a subject discussed very open.

You would prefer I will delete those messages ?

i'm sorry if it wasn't an acceptable idea. Proably it was stupid, so it's better I will delete them.

It's true I hate categorisation, so it was very wrong make the list, now I can see this. the update i made because there was some changes after it was told some people must be in a different group.

truly I'm sorry for upset you and all the others. it wasn't deliberatly and I hope you will feel more happy after I delete them (if I can ).


Ne t'inquiète pas Pauline. Ton idée n'était ni stupide ni mauvaise. C'est juste que j'ai senti une sorte de contradiction entre tes principes énoncés en préambule et une irrésisitible envie d'y déroger. Tout le monde est confronté à ce genre de situation — heureusement d'ailleurs ! Peut-être que mon message laconique t'as donné l'impression que j'émettais un jugement de valeur mais il n'en est rien : chacun est libre de ses paroles ici.
Uriel

Porthos wrote:

Your ex sounds nuts! Unless you were a 500 lbs old hag, I can't imagine your bf's attitude.


I am not a 500-lb hag.
Deborah

Uriel wrote:
I am not a 500-lb hag.

Most definitely not! She is a sleek feline with arresting eyes. (Love the new avatar, Uriel!)
Uriel

Thank you!

Didn't like the skunk so much, eh?
Deborah

Uriel wrote:
Thank you!

Didn't like the skunk so much, eh?

Oh, the skunk was lovely. But now you've chosen what is possibly the most beautiful animal in the world.
Uriel

More beautiful than the giraffe?

Well, you ARE a cat person....
Pauline

greg in noord-frankrijk wrote:
Ne t'inquiète pas Pauline. Ton idée n'était ni stupide ni mauvaise. C'est juste que j'ai senti une sorte de contradiction entre tes principes énoncés en préambule et une irrésisitible envie d'y déroger. Tout le monde est confronté à ce genre de situation — heureusement d'ailleurs ! Peut-être que mon message laconique t'as donné l'impression que j'émettais un jugement de valeur mais il n'en est rien : chacun est libre de ses paroles ici.


It's true, it's wrong go against your ethic, and it was wrong make the list. It was completely a contradiction, I agree. But, I didn't made the list for go against those principles, but really for fun - i don't never hurt deliberalty people, especially for something like be different that normal.

i was worried that I upsetted you, and hurt you and others so you prefer mad Pauline don't anymore visit the forum and write such stupid things. Thanks for your reply and for explaining.
Benjamin [inactive]

loic wrote:
Ben, have you ever considered being a priest?

Yes, actually. Or rather, I have considering being a Unitarian minister. Since the only place in Europe where Unitarians are actually increasing in numbers is in the Netherlands, I quite like the idea of training for the ministry, learning Dutch and then going over there and establishing another congregation, as they currently only have one.

However, Unitarian ministers do not need to be celibate.

Uriel wrote:
Benjamin, I have no interest in football either -- yours or mine -- but once you've had a good roll in the hay, you'll know what all the fuss is about!

That's definitely true. Indeed, many asexuals actually do have sex, and some may even enjoy it — they just don't desire it like most people do.

Quote:
I would even imagine that constantly being assaulted by messages of sexuality that you can't relate to as well as being seen as a curiosity by more sexually-oriented people probably makes you feel defensive -- look, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm perfectly fine -- and draw away from it even more -- a knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, that's probably right. It often takes me a long time to work out sexual innuendoes. I once spent about five minutes discussing the size of my clarinet in comparison to my friends clarinet (we play different types of clarinet) and didn't realise why everyone was laughing until they told me.

Quote:
But you're far from being the only one, of course. I once had a boyfriend who was great in all respects except one -- he was completely indifferent to sex. Hated to be bothered by it. Did it less and less as time wore on, until it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it, and finally he just stopped altogether. It was horrible, frustrating, completely nerve-wracking to constantly be rejected, to be denied that way of connecting and renewing your feelings. Psychologically and physically. I hated it. There's no having a relationship with someone when that kind of gulf exists between you.

Hey, that's interesting! I'm trying to imagine you with an asexual boyfriend, LOL. But yes, you're right that many asexuals do still have 'romantic' relationships — it often causes problems when they have these relationships with sexual people though.
patriccke

loic wrote:
Patriccke: So you are really bisexual? How come you've never talked about girls before?

I'm gay (gayissimo!!!). What I was actually wondering is what made you think I could be bi? Something written in the deleted posts???

Fredrik wrote:
Yeah, its strange, isn´t it. The mind works in mysterious ways. Although André for instance is being naughty posting half-naked pictures of hot Namibian men all the time, my mental image of him is very much shaped by his avatar picture, where he kind of watches over us with a masculinly confident, but benign paternal gaze.

I don't see it as a contradiction.

I see André as a perfectly balanced man, masculine, self-confident and at the same time not ashamed to express his feelings. Sensitive to the best of Namibia and enjoying talking about it, but certainly able to live his relationships with sincerity.

I wish I had known people like him when I was a teenager. I would not have been so ashamed of myself if I had had great gay men to identify with
Benjamin [inactive]

Just of interest, Patriccke, where are you actually from originally? I'd always thought you were Belgian, but that went out the window when you mentioned that you felt a kind of 'Mediterranean' identity (unless you adopted one later on, of course).
André in Zuid-Afrika

patriccke wrote:
loic wrote:
Patriccke: So you are really bisexual? How come you've never talked about girls before?

I'm gay (gayissimo!!!). What I was actually wondering is what made you think I could be bi? Something written in the deleted posts???

Fredrik wrote:
Yeah, its strange, isn´t it. The mind works in mysterious ways. Although André for instance is being naughty posting half-naked pictures of hot Namibian men all the time, my mental image of him is very much shaped by his avatar picture, where he kind of watches over us with a masculinly confident, but benign paternal gaze.

I don't see it as a contradiction.

I see André as a perfectly balanced man, masculine, self-confident and at the same time not ashamed to express his feelings. Sensitive to the best of Namibia and enjoying talking about it, but certainly able to live his relationships with sincerity.

I wish I had known people like him when I was a teenager. I would not have been so ashamed of myself if I had had great gay men to identify with


Thank you, Patriccke. I really appreciate you saying this.
Loic

Pat: Yep. An erroneous classification led me down the wrong path.
Uriel

Patriccke's originally Belgian, I believe, but he spends his time in Italy (if I remember correctly).

I see no contradictions in any of Andre's attributes, either -- would that most gay men were like him. Most of the ones I've known were shallow and vain and very selfish and self-centered -- not fully-developed people yet. Of course, most of them were also in their teens and early twenties, and thus not much different in that respect to their heterosexual brethren.
Uriel

Quote:
Indeed, many asexuals actually do have sex, and some may even enjoy it — they just don't desire it like most people do.


Oh, and you can tell they're not into it, believe me. It's quite a letdown. Even if they have the right physical response at the end, you can tell that emotionally, they aren't there with you.


Quote:
Hey, that's interesting! I'm trying to imagine you with an asexual boyfriend, LOL. But yes, you're right that many asexuals do still have 'romantic' relationships — it often causes problems when they have these relationships with sexual people though.


Yeah, it sucked. Sex for most people isn't like a pastime or a hobby -- it's a physical and emotional need.
patriccke

Benjamin wrote:
Just of interest, Patriccke, where are you actually from originally? I'd always thought you were Belgian, but that went out the window when you mentioned that you felt a kind of 'Mediterranean' identity (unless you adopted one later on, of course).

To make it short I'm French from a (mainly) Spanish family. I settled in Belgium in 1999 but often spend a few months or years abroad. Let's say I'm a European whith a HQ in the capital
Julian

patriccke wrote:
To make it short I'm French from a (mainly) Spanish family. I settled in Belgium in 1999 but often spend a few months or years abroad. Let's say I'm a European whith a HQ in the capital


Patriccke, t'has afaitat tots els teus pèls i has esdevingut un xef!

Off topic: Since you're a citizen of Europe, I'm curious, what language do you speak when you're with your family or at home?
André in Zuid-Afrika

patriccke wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
Just of interest, Patriccke, where are you actually from originally? I'd always thought you were Belgian, but that went out the window when you mentioned that you felt a kind of 'Mediterranean' identity (unless you adopted one later on, of course).

To make it short I'm French from a (mainly) Spanish family. I settled in Belgium in 1999 but often spend a few months or years abroad. Let's say I'm a European whith a HQ in the capital


Hey, love the avatar!
patriccke

Buy a cook's hat too (mine was a gift)

Julian wrote:
Patriccke, t'has afaitat tots els teus pèls i has esdevingut un xef!

Off topic: Since you're a citizen of Europe, I'm curious, what language do you speak when you're with your family or at home?

No, no, els meus cabells els tinc encara sota el barret!

I'm not the best example of multilinguism you know. With my family (which I hardly ever see) I always speak French. They consider I have no reason to speak any other language than my mother tongue

The strange thing is I still think very often in Italian and I often translate directly from Italian when I speak Catalan or Spanish (hence many mistakes) or even in French!
Deborah

patriccke wrote:
Buy a cook's hat too (mine was a gift)

Julian wrote:
Patriccke, t'has afaitat tots els teus pèls i has esdevingut un xef!

I was wondering whether you'd found a new profession. But I see you're just a poseur.
patriccke

I'm an amateur but I was really cooking. I've been in the mood for cooking these weeks
Benjamin [inactive]

patriccke wrote:
The strange thing is I still think very often in Italian and I often translate directly from Italian when I speak Catalan or Spanish (hence many mistakes) or even in French!

This reminds me of some my friends who have very international backgrounds. I know one boy whose mother is American, is father is German and he's always lived in France — naturally, he speaks English, German and French fluently, although he speaks French the best. The strange thing is that, to me, he seems very 'American' — I was surprised when he told me that he thinks in French, and that when he speaks English, he's actually thinking about what he's saying in French underneath.

I'm not really sure whether I think in English when I speak in French or not. It just sort of comes out in French — I don't really have to think all that much about what I'm saying.
patriccke

I usually also think directly in the language I'm speaking but for some reason sooner or later an Italian word comes out and then I can't stop thinking in Italian!!!

Elaine, sorry for the late answer. I had so many messages to catch up with.
Elaine wrote:
So if one were say, in Trento-- it wouldn't be so nice to make love?

How would I know? I have already tried above Trieste (and above Trento) but I realise the guys always came from more Southern regions.

Raffaella seems obsessed by the South! The Spanish version title is "hay que venir al Sur"

Click here for the Italian version (to fully understand how it can be a gay anthem you have to see how everyone sing and dance on this song in a party, not this 1979 TV show)

And here for the Spanish one (when seeing those guys it's even harder to imagine it's a gay anthem, but at least you'll undesrtand the lyrics!)
Deborah

patriccke wrote:
I'm an amateur but I was really cooking. I've been in the mood for cooking these weeks

Oops! Sorry.
Porthos

For normal, everyday, basic things, I won't have to think in English first, and then compute the translation in my head. But for a more advanced conversation, I think in English first, and I can see my brain conjugating all of the verbs and so forth before I speak.
David

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Just voted the sexiest man in South Africsa (third time in a row) on the gay website mambaonline.com

Stefan Ludik, actor, originally from Namibia


Is his ancesty South African? I didn't know there were many white namibians. [/quote]
André in Zuid-Afrika

David wrote:
André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
Just voted the sexiest man in South Africsa (third time in a row) on the gay website mambaonline.com

Stefan Ludik, actor, originally from Namibia


Is his ancesty South African? I didn't know there were many white namibians.


He's Afrikaans, so his ancestors would originally be from South Africa (allthough he is born and bred Namibian). There are roughly 150 000 whites in Namibia today, mostly Afrikaans (about 60%). Abouth 30% of white Namibians are German, and 10% English.
Loic

If you look at the Namibian cricket and rugby teams, they are mostly white.
Fredrik

Fredrik wrote:
Yeah, its strange, isn´t it. The mind works in mysterious ways. Although André for instance is being naughty posting half-naked pictures of hot Namibian men all the time, my mental image of him is very much shaped by his avatar picture, where he kind of watches over us with a masculinly confident, but benign paternal gaze.
And once you start thinking it´s kind of fun...
Of Deborah I have a rather maternal image, Uriel is more like the young aunt or work collegue, Elaine more the older cousin, Pauline the younger cousin, Porthos the little brother, greg the teacher, Sander, Benjamin, Walker and Harrenys more like regular mates and loic I have a hard time placing, probably because persons like him are rather seldom in my culture. fab and patrixcke are hard to place too. And if I have forgotten anyone it`s because they are enigmas, image-wise.
So, that was the glimpse into my brain...
And remember (if you feel offended, lol) that this is how you appear in my mind based on your Langcafé appearance. I am sure you all are quite different in reality.

I found roles for loic and KSa:
loic - the typical house friend, as he appears in PG Wodehouse and other bygone settings
KSa - the priest (who turns out to have very base, wordly interests, like watching ski jumping)
Elaine

patriccke wrote:
Click here for the Italian version (to fully understand how it can be a gay anthem you have to see how everyone sing and dance on this song in a party, not this 1979 TV show)

And here for the Spanish one (when seeing those guys it's even harder to imagine it's a gay anthem, but at least you'll undesrtand the lyrics!)


YouTube!!!!!!!! Porca miseria! I can't access these at work.

Love your new avatar, handsome.
Elaine

Fredrik wrote:
Recently I got an idea for a TV sitcom that can make us rich (and secure us financial aid frim the Dutch tourist authorities):

Imagine a kind of Dutch "Will and Grace" + "Sex and the City" + "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"", but one that was willing to milk the socalled female gaze that has come more and more in focus since "Brokeback Mountain" by having as its main character a ridiculously cute gay couple in their 20s (e.g. Wim & Kees ), living in a ridiculously cute brick house by a canal in beautiful Amstrerdam, having ridiculously cute Dutch jobs as for example a guide in the Rijkksmuseum and a florist and featuring a lot of jealous girls trying to seduce one of our cute heroes and nearly managing to, before he comes to his senses again and bike home on the cobbled streets of Amsterdam for some wholesome gay cuddling!

I think it would easily win over the whole female audience, from Dawsons Creek addicted teens to sex-starved carreer women, who would pant over the scenes where our heroes flash lots of skin and male anatomy while they pillow talk in sexy, guttural Dutch. And of course there would be the occasional gay viewer... Perhaps it would even be aired in South Africa and the US, for André's delight and Porthos' education!


It sounds like you really put a lot of thought into this! And beautifully worded I might add. I just don't get this malarkey about you not having a large English vocabulary like you say.

Greg wrote:
Elaine wrote:
Not big news since everybody in town knew, but Doogie Howser announced that he's gay.


Elaine, who is Doogie Howser ?


Wow, there've been alot of posts on this thread since my absence!

Greg, the guy's real name is Neil Patrick Harris. He's on a tv show right now that I've never watched, but to me he will always be "Doogie Howser", a character he played back in the early '90s about a teenage DOCTOR going through growing pains in between dispensing prognoses and writing prescriptions.
Loic

Fredrik: Lol. You made Ksa seem like an irreverent sort of priest.
KSa

loic wrote:
Fredrik: Lol. You made Ksa seem like an irreverent sort of priest.


Loic: if John Paul II was such a fervent skier that he didn't even give it up during his pontiff why should I refrain from watching ski jumping as an ordinary priest?

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