| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| Porthos |
The least "harsh" of the Germanic languagesI suppose "harsh" is a subjective term, but if I had to pick the languages which sound the most pleasant (that is, least gutteral, and so forth), I would say English, followed by Frisian. Dutch has to be the most harsh in my opinion. What would you guys say? |
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| Pauline |
Despite i can't speak very well english, I have noticed, that there are very many diverse ways to pronounce it (by native speakers I mean) sometimes it sound gentle and nice, but other times harsh. unfortunatley i can't tell you precisely from where it was, that it sounded like this because I can't recognise the regions, except american / standard british english.I was in Ireland, and they speak very nicely english there, and not so fast as in england.
I agree, dutch is absolutely harsh !!!! But, sometimes it can sound gentler depedning of the speaker and their regional accent. to me, german isn't neither soft nor harsh - then the scandinavian languages, who are germanic as well, i can't say because I haven't listened them much. So i think the least harsh is irish english and the most harsh is dutch. |
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| David |
English, hands down. Dutch is the harshest sounding, followed by German and Scots, in my opinion. | ||||||
| Porthos |
I have only heard Scots one time, so I can't really give an educated opinion on it. But, German is definitely much more gentle sounding than Dutch. Although, I prefer a Dutch accent in English over a German accent, because I think Dutch accents can sound pretty. I've only recently been able to tell the two accents apart.
The fact is, English does not have any "gutteral sounds". We don't have that awful "ch" sound, nor do we have the gutteral "r". So, its the softest, but certainly, not as "soft" as a Romance language. |
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| Sander |
Well, harshness is relative. I do not consider my language to be that harsh, or harsh at all. But do consider Hebrew and Arabic to be harsh eventhough these languages use and have less gutteral sounds than Dutch. It's a matter of getting used to something. | ||||||
| David |
I think that's because of the Romance influence. |
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| Porthos |
It has nothing to do with Romance influence. There is NO romance influence in English phonology. It only sounds so different from other Germanic languages because of a unique, independent development. French has a unique phonology within the Romance family, and many use this as "proof" of so called abundant "Germanic influence", when in reality, there is none. There is no Romance influence on English other than vocabulary, which there is plenty of. |
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| Sander |
There has been some phonetical Romance influence on the continental Germanic languages ... why would English be different? |
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| Erol |
Like french "r" is adapted by high german , standard danish , etc. Also in english there are many phonological french adptions. This is a fact , don't you think? | ||||||
| greg in noord-frankrijk |
There is Romance influence on English phonology. On loanwords for instance. |
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| Porthos |
But to a great extent, most French loanwords are Anglicized in pronounciation. The French spelling is still preserved however. |
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| Porthos |
We haven't had to many contributions from the community on this thread, but I would like to correct a mistake I made on my initial post. I meant to say German in place of Frisian. | ||||||
| fab |
What may seem "softer" about English may be the "r"s. But if we forget that I find the rythms and accents of English really close to Dutch and Scandinavian accents. To my opinion I have the impression that it is German which has a different sounding.
Anyway, that's really subjective, and I don't think it means much to say that a language as a whole is "harsh", some sounds can be.. but most languages are made of a lot of different and contradictory sounds. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
All French loanwords in English are ungallicised in pronunciation — even such ones as <machine>, <déjà vu>, <double entendre>, <en route> etc, which however did not undergo the major English phonological processes that affected earlier loanwords. To that extent, Romance influence is preserved. |
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| Akoni |
Dutch and harsh don't go together in my opinion, there is a lot of difference between Dutch and Dutch. | ||||||
| Fredrik |
Porthos:
Check out this song in Brabantic posted by Akoni if you wanna hear un-guttural Dutch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ6m-_oVqJ8 |
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| Porthos |
Fredrik,
But that's a song. That's not conversational Dutch. Language always sounds softer and more attractive in such a song. |
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| fab |
I think the differences between English and Dutch sound are narrow, mostly limited to th 'r' sound which are very different.
when I went in Netherland I noticed that, if we just change the Dutch "r" with english ones; i found it really similar sounding to English. |
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| Porthos |
And the "g" and "ch" sounds, and the pronounciation of vowels. These are all very different from English. In the absence of the harsh guttural sounds, Dutch sounds in between German and English to my ears. And American English sounds even more different from the others than does standard British English. | ||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
I don't think so, but as you mentioned below, we're not talking about the same 'English'. And 'harsh guttural sounds' do exist in some British English dialects, so that sound isn't too foreign for me either.
Yes! |
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| Fredrik |
I have come to realize that I regard very posh RP and American English as uglier than Dutch. (Though that doesn't mean I don't listen to those accents with affection sometimes.) | ||||||
| Porthos |
What kind of American English Fredrik? My accent, or a Bostonian accent, or a Georgian accent? | ||||||
| Fredrik |
General American English, so I guess that includes your version. | ||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
I often wish that I didn't speak RP, although admittedly mine isn't very posh. It's just that it gives me a lack of 'authority'. I went to a conference in Chester last year, and the kitchen staff were mainly tall and well-built women in their 50s with strong Cheshire accents — needless to say, you wouldn't want to mess with them! Speaking RP, I simply don't have that sort of authority — I'll probably end up being a teacher, so it seems like I'll have to change it if I ever want to teach in the British Isles and be able to maintain a basic level of classroom control. | ||||||
| Fredrik |
Poor you, Benjamin....
Honestly, don't feel ashamed of your accent. I can assure you that a RP accent can be very becoming if it's not as extreme as the queen's and is spoken by a real gentleman. A friend of my family is an Englishman living in Norway and we are always so charmed by how his nice RP matches his gentlemanlike behaviour. (That his Norwegian is highly eccentric is a different matter!  )
But the fact that you can't speak the local basilect is quite funny, I think. In the areas of Norway that traditionally had such a sociolectal divide, the speakers of the acrolect were usually able to speak the local basilect. The wife of said Englishman is an example of that. Coming from the upper bourgeoisie of Stavanger, she usually speaks the posh Stavanger acrolect, but can suddenly change into the local basilect if she's telling a raunchy joke. The same with my mother and aunt. who also come from Stavanger's bourgeoisie. If they pick up the phone and the caller is from Stavanger or from outside the province, they will suddenly change into the acrolect. Quite funny, actually. (Admittedly, my aunt doesn't speak the basilect 100 % correct, but her errors are rather rare and minor.) |
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| Pauline |
I agree. I find dutch sound very similar with american english, especially the word stress, vowels and r. Many dutch people use an english r at the end of words for exemple zeker but not in the other places praat, redenerenwhere it will be an r like in french or like in spanish. One difference is the g what english don't have. This is quite ugly, but in the south of the netherlands and flanders this is softer. |
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| Uriel |
When I was in the Netherlands, I didn't find Dutch harsh or gutteral at all. I don't know where that impression comes from! If anything, I was surprised to find that it really sounded like a foreign language being spoken with an American accent. Probably because the vowels are so similar to American vowels -- far more so than the British English I heard while in London and Cambridge.
German, to me, is the most gutteral language in the family. |
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| Porthos |
See, I can't say I agree. German seems softer overal, with the exception of its "ch" sound, whereas Dutch is riddled with symptoms of the incurable throat disease. 
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
I'm curious, Porthos, have you ever heard Afrikaans? If not, maybe I should put up a recording. I'm actually curious as to how you would rate Afrikaans as compared to Dutch and German, especially with regard to the gutteral sound.
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| Porthos |
I've heard it once or twice, but not enough to form an educated opinion of it. Feel free to post a recording.
I understand the lovely Charlize Theron is a native speaker. Perhaps you could post a recording of her. 
What's funny about her, is that in her films, she often plays the part of a U.S. southerner, with a southern accent. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Hm, you'll have to put up with a recording of me. Charlize is indeed a native Afrikaans speaker, but it will be hard to find a recording of her speaking Afrikaans on the internet, and she now speaks Afrikaans with somewhat of an American accent anyway. She seems to switch her (American) accent according to the character she plays. She learnt the American accent by constantly watching TV after arriving in the US.
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| Porthos |
Well your recording will suffice. 
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| David |
To my ears, Luxembourgish and Dutch are the most guttural, and English the least. | ||||||
| Deborah |
Oh, I'd rather listen to you than to Charlize any time! (Whatta voice!)
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| Uriel |
Andre's voice is damn sexy, Porthos. No idea what he's saying, but he can say it all night long....nothing harsh or gutteral about it! (And don't make me whip out the Arnold Vosloo pics again! )
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| Pauline |
Where's the recording of André's voice? Maybe I will listen him. | ||||||
| Porthos |
Yeah, where is it?
Lol, i was watching Frasier last night, and I couldn't help but crack up, thinking of Andre. lol |
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| Joanne |
Mmm. Yes, daaaaamn sexy! We should get André to make a Windows sound scheme of himself. I, for one, would find it relaxing if I heard his voice wishing me a lovely day every time I started up my computer!
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
OK, by popular demand.... you'll find a recording of me speaking (or rather reading) Afrikaans in the Audios forum (The voice of an old friend).
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
OK, Charlize Theron speaking Afrikaans... at the end of the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj...dX8s&mode=related&search= |
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| Deborah |
I liked Ellen's imitation of Afrikaans in the video. | ||||||
| David |
not sure how true this is, but I read that she also has varying levels of fluency in around thirty African languages and dialects, learned from neighbors and employees on her parents' farm. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Not true. While we do have more that 30 languages here, most of them are very small, and Charlize would not have been in any contact with almost all of them, let alone learn them. She didn't actually grow up on a proper farm, but on what we call a kleinhoewe, which is a tiny, tiny farm, so small that actual farming isn't possible. People on smallholdings usually have a few chicken, perhaps a few sheep or goats, but they usually do some other kind of work. So they would've had at most three or four workers. Their neighbours would've been white (and mainly Afrikaans). She grew up in the town of Benoni, where their smallholding was, which is mainly Afrikaans, and where she would've heard at most two or three black African languages (most likely Zulu and/or Xhosa).
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
That was hilarious!  I always wonder what Afrikaans sounds like to people who don't understand it... now I know!
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