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Porthos

The Man of the 20th Century

Who is the greatest man, or woman, of the 20th Century? I would vote for Winston Churchill.
David

In what category, politics, technology, peace? Your question is pretty broad.
greg in noord-frankrijk

I'm voting for De Gaulle and Gandhi. And Donna Summer of course !

Sander

I'd say either Hitler:


Or Stalin:
Benjamin [inactive]

Personally, I'm rather surprised that people have suggested the likes of Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle instead of people like Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King, but maybe that's just me. :)

There are a lot of people I would consider for this list — Tim Berners-Lee would also be one of them.
David

In various categories:

Politics: Churchill
Technology: Tim Berners-Lee
Language:(don't kill me for this:smt003 )Joseph Greenberg
Adventure/Discovery: Thor Heyerdahl
Science: Tough one, probably Einstein
André in Zuid-Afrika

Nelson Mandela

Porthos

Mandela accomplished wonderful things in the small corner of the world known as S. Africa, but what did he do on a global scale? He wasn't a world leader. He didn't defy evil in the face of tyranny on behalf of all of the Western democracies.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Porthos wrote:
Mandela accomplished wonderful things in the small corner of the world known as S. Africa, but what did he do on a global scale? He wasn't a world leader. He didn't defy evil in the face of tyranny on behalf of all of the Western democracies.


Ah, sorry, I was unaware that only Western leaders could be considered for this title. I suggest you do some more reading on Mandela.
Porthos

No, but perhaps I should rephrase the question. By greatest man of the century, I mean the greatest man of the world. Who had the greatest, most important impact on the *world*. So, obviously, it would have to be someone from one of the most influential countries, in order for it to sufficiently impact the world as a whole. Of course they would have to be humane people, so dictators wouldn't even merit consideration.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Porthos wrote:
No, but perhaps I should rephrase the question. By greatest man of the century, I mean the greatest man of the world. Who had the greatest, most important impact on the *world*. So, obviously, it would have to be someone from one of the most influential countries, in order for it to sufficiently impact the world as a whole. Of course they would have to be humane people, so dictators wouldn't even merit consideration.


I see, so only Western leaders then.

André in Zuid-Afrika

From bloomsbury.com

Quote:
On 11 February 1 990, a dignified elderly man walked hand in hand with the wife from whom he had been forced to live apart for twenty-seven years out of prison and into history. It is a date and an image the world will never forget: the day Nelson Mandela was freed.

From that day on, Nelson Mandela's immense courage and personal moral authority moved out of the shadows of his prison cell to stand as a beacon of hope first to a bitterly divided nation and then to the whole world. Other images have followed: a smiling Mandela casting his vote in his country's first general election, a solemn Mandela at his inauguration as the first president of a democratic South Africa, Mandela with world leaders, with celebrities, with his wife Graca Machel and his family, in the midst of the crowds of children who are drawn to him wherever he goes.

Nelson Mandela occupies a unique place in our world and in Mandela - The Authorised Portrait the narrative of his epic journey to freedom is accompanied by the most complete collection of images ever assembled and by more than sixty specially commissioned interviews. World leaders, friends and associates ranging from President Bill Clinton to Tony Blair, from Bono to President Thabo Mbeki, from his comrades in the South African struggle against apartheid to Muhammad Ali have all contributed their individual stories to build a compelling picture of this inspirational man through the eyes of those closest to him.




Quote:
'What makes Mandela so special is that he's a real human being ... And the fact that he is so flesh-and-blood real makes his greatness and his sacrifice and his wisdom and his courage in the face of all that has happened to him even more remarkable.' Bill Clinton



Quote:
To this day, Madiba remains probably the single most admired, most respected international figure in the entire world. He continues to inspire millions of people and several generations throughout the globe, by continuing to fight for reconciliation before recrimination, healing before bitterness, peace before conflict; by fighting for health, for education, for the right of every child to have a better start in life; by fighting against the destruction wrought by HIV/Aids; by spelling out the right and duty of not only South Africa, but of all Africa, to take charge of its own future and fate. - Kofi Annan
Porthos

So you moderated the nose comment, not once, but twice?

Okay, so we have one vote for Mandela, and one for Churchill so far. Oh, and one for De Gaulle
André in Zuid-Afrika

Porthos wrote:
So you moderated the nose comment, not once, but twice?


Yes. If you make tasteless remarks, you will find they will be moderated.
fab

Quote:
Ah, sorry, I was unaware that only Western leaders could be considered for this title



André, you don't consider your country western ?
Porthos

<<André, you don't consider your country western ? >>

I know. I was thinking the same thing. I always considered S. Africa to be a western country.
greg in noord-frankrijk

Possible women of the 20th century :


Norma Jean — « Mon cœur est à Papa. You know.. le propriétaire. »



Marie Curie, née Sklodowska — « Dans la vie, rien n'est à craindre, tout est à comprendre. »
Benjamin [inactive]

I'd say that a percentage (perhaps 20-30%) of South Africans could be considered 'Westerners', but maybe not the country as a whole. Right?

Quote:
Okay, so we have one vote for Mandela

No, it's two. I mentioned him as well.
André in Zuid-Afrika

fab wrote:
Quote:
Ah, sorry, I was unaware that only Western leaders could be considered for this title



André, you don't consider your country western ?


No. South Africa is an African country, albeit probably the most Westernised in Africa.It is a Third World country, going on First World. I am an African, and my native language is African.

During the apartheid years white South Africans considered the RSA to be part of the Western world, but this view was and is not shared by black South Africans. Over the past decade most white South Africans have embraced the idea of SA being an African country, and we no longer think of SA as a Western country as such, despite strong links.

The Afrikaners have been called "The White Tribe of Africa". We do not reject our European heritage, and most of us are proud of it. But that does not change the fact that we are now Africans.

Ben is right that a percentage (closer to 20 than 30, probably below 20) could be considered Westerners (in the broadest sense of the word), but certainly not the country as such.

And in case you were wondering, no, South Africa is not an English speaking country, as many Europeans and Americans think.
Loic

I must say that while Nelson Mandela is certainly a very strong candidate for the greatest man of the last century, he is ultimately triumphed in my eyes by a man whose influence can be felt throughout the globe - the late Pope John Paul II.

Rightly or wrongly, he has been depicted as the catalyst for the fall of communism - first in Poland; then in the former Warsaw Pact countries.

The doctrine which he preached was adhered to -albeit by varying degrees- across the world.

He travelled around the world and was a conscientious fighter for the poor, the down-trodden and the disadvantaged.

He loved his friends and forgave his enemies -viz. his Turkish assassin was absolved of any blame by the late Pope.

He was great, not just where moral fibre was concerned. He had a great impact on the world.

Why hadn't anyone thought of him before?
Benjamin [inactive]

It's certainly true that a lot of people in Western countries have a rather 'Eurocentric' view of South Africa -- to the extent that it is often grouped with Australia and New Zealand here. What really makes me laugh is when French people include South Africa in what the call le monde anglo-saxon -- which is totally inappropriate, in my opinion.
André in Zuid-Afrika

Benjamin wrote:
It's certainly true that a lot of people in Western countries have a rather 'Eurocentric' view of South Africa -- to the extent that it is often grouped with Australia and New Zealand here. What really makes me laugh is when French people include South Africa in what the call le monde anglo-saxon -- which is totally inappropriate, in my opinion.


Exactly. While it is true that English is widely used here, native English speakers form a small minority (around 8%) of the total population, and it is only the fifth largest (out of eleven) languages spoken as native language. That hardly makes South Africa an English speaking country.

KSa

I wouldn't dare to say who was actually the man of the whole century so I can only try to mention those who (IMHO) contributed most to the fall of communism, namely: Ronal Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev. Plus John Paul II. Plus "Solidarity" movement, without mentioning any name.
André in Zuid-Afrika

KSa wrote:
I wouldn't dare to say who was actually the man of the whole century so I can only try to mention those who (IMHO) contributed most to the fall of communism, namely: Ronal Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev. Plus John Paul II. Plus "Solidarity" movement, without mentioning any name.


BTW, whatever happened to Lech Walesa?
KSa

André in Zuid-Afrika wrote:
KSa wrote:
I wouldn't dare to say who was actually the man of the whole century so I can only try to mention those who (IMHO) contributed most to the fall of communism, namely: Ronal Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev. Plus John Paul II. Plus "Solidarity" movement, without mentioning any name.


BTW, whatever happened to Lech Walesa?

After he'd got 1% of total votes in the presidential elections in 2000 he became less active until recently when he announced his 'come back' to politics in near future.
Porthos

I'm not familiar with Norma Jean, but because of that picture, I'm considering voting for her as a candidate!
Pauline

Porthos wrote:
I'm not familiar with Norma Jean, but because of that picture, I'm considering voting for her as a candidate!



LOL !!!
Deborah

Porthos wrote:
I'm not familiar with Norma Jean, but because of that picture, I'm considering voting for her as a candidate!

Norma Jeane Baker = Marilyn Monroe

Porthos

She is the same person as Marylin Monroe? Just a different name?
Deborah

Porthos wrote:
She is the same person as Marylin Monroe? Just a different name?

The same. Here's a page with more early photos:

http://www.marilynmonroe.com/about/photos/dienes_photos.htm

(Sorry -- I won't pursue this off-topic topic further.)
Loic

Not at all off-topic, Deborah. I suppose we need to know why Norma Jean Baker aka Marilyn Monroe is a good candidate for Person of the Century.
Fredrik

loic wrote:
Not at all off-topic, Deborah. I suppose we need to know why Norma Jean Baker aka Marilyn Monroe is a good candidate for Person of the Century.


She was half-Norwegian.
And former Norwegian prime minister Gro Harlem Brundtland said: It's typically Norwegian to be great!
Ergo: Marylin was the greatest!

Statue of Marilyn in her (alleged) father's home town, Haugesund:
Porthos

Always so quick to claim Norweigan achievements aren't you Fred?
Fredrik

Hehe yes, we are a small. insecure nation...
André in Zuid-Afrika

So do we have a verdict here yet?
Loic

Actually, shouldn't it be Albert Einstein? The other candidates put forth are illustrious in their own right and it is hard to take credit away from their achievements. Nelson Mandela is however primarily renowed for his fight against apartheid - an important work, but a largely localised one. Pope John Paul II was immensely esteemed and respected in his life, but even his charismatic appeal wasn't enough to hold sway over his flock, not to mention the non Catholic world.

But Albert Einstein gave us a complex theory of special relativity that has since been elegantly encapsulated in the world famous equation E=MC^2. Even people who have never studied physics has heard about it although they'd probably be hard pressed to explain its content.

As we now know, the understanding of this concept was key to the development of the atomic bomb. The fact that so little mass can be converted into exponentially larger energy was a revolutionary exercise in re-education as it altered the rules of neo-classical physics laid down by Newton. It basically changed how Man views his environment for good.
Pauline

I would chose Saint Francis of Assisi but he didn't lived during the 20th century.
Benjamin [inactive]

Pauline wrote:
I would chose Saint Francis of Assisi but he didn't lived during the 20th century.

Likewise, I would choose Jesus Christ, although he didn't live during the 10th century either.
Akoni

I would choose anyone who made a difference in the 20th century and give them all a collective award.
Loic

Akoni wrote:
I would choose anyone who made a difference in the 20th century and give them all a collective award.


Hmm...I was born in the 20th century and I reckon that my birth alone made an economic difference to the maternity ward where I was safely delivered. So I have a deserved share in that collective award.
Uriel

Your 20 cents is in the mail. Don't spend it all in one place.
Loic

Uriel wrote:
Your 20 cents is in the mail. Don't spend it all in one place.


Great. Just enough for me to visit a public toilet.
Uriel

I can't believe there are places that actually make you pay for that privilege! France cracked me up.
Akoni

At trainstations here it's €0,50 for the toilet.

But anyways we all get 20 cents out of the prizemoney from person of the 20th century.
Benjamin [inactive]

Uriel wrote:
I can't believe there are places that actually make you pay for that privilege! France cracked me up.

So you'd never pay to use a public toilet here?

It's very common at train stations and places like that here to have to pay to use the toilet — you often have to insert money into a slot, which allows you to go through the barrier. Then at some toilets, there's an old women who sits by the door with a plate, and you have to put coins on the plate. I've often wondered whether they're actually employed to do that, or whether they're allowed to keep whatever they get providing they clean the toilet, or whether they just randomly decide to sit there and collect money.
Deborah

In my youth, pay toilets in the US were fairly common. The practice seems to have died out, though.
Deborah

I'd like to nominate Margaret Sanger for advocating reproductive rights for women; unfortunately, she also advocated eugenics.
Loic

Eugenics and abortion are simply two sides of the same coin. When a mother and father choose to abort their child simply because he is suffering from a defect such as Down's Syndrome, they are practising eugenics at the base level.
Pauline

I vote for Abbé Pierre.
Loic

A good choice for the late priest, bless his soul. But his influence did not travel far beyond the boundaries of France so it is hard to argue that he deserves to be the perfect candidate.
Pauline

In Belgium he's very famous as well.

I don't know how far did travelled his influence, but truly good, kind people like Abbé Pierre probably don't have influence in all the world, btu where they have it's profound. Also, this influence can travel beyond the boundaries of France because of the inspiration he give all the other people. Very many people love Abbé Pierre. he will get my vote.
Wanderin

loic wrote:
A good choice for the late priest, bless his soul. But his influence did not travel far beyond the boundaries of France so it is hard to argue that he deserves to be the perfect candidate.

agree. Nobody knows him outside France or Belgium, there must be a person who is known all around the world and who is recognized by anyone. I even doubt that Franklin Roosewelt is a good choice, not much people outside of western world even know him, so my preference go to:

Merlyn Monroe
and
John Lennon

Everyone knows them and everyone agrees that they are great
Fredrik

Anne Frank. Simply because she was an ordinary scared and brave person who was in the midst of the greatest and most impact-laden tragedy of the 20th century and because our intimate knowledge of her private life signalled the media age we live in.
Pauline

Fredrik,

Heb je haar dagboek gelezen? Ik wel, maar ik heb pas nu gedacht dat ik een beetje dom ben geweest, want ik heb het in het frans gelezen, terwijl het in het nederlands oorspronkelijk geschreven was, en dus beter was geweest in die taal het boek te kiezen. Maar ja, zo erg is dat ook niet. Ik vind het toch nog lastig in nederlands een boek te lezen, misschien omdat ik het tot nu toe heel wenig heb gedaan. Heb jij veel boeken in het engels en duits gelezen? Akoni vertelde dat hij meer engelstalige boeken kent dan nederlandse!!!
Deborah

Pauline, I read Anne Frank's diary, years ago (in English). Have you been to the Anne Frank museum in Amsterdam?

Gandhi, Mandela or Martin Luther King would all be good choices for Man of the 20th century.
Pauline

Deborah wrote:
Pauline, I read Anne Frank's diary, years ago (in English). Have you been to the Anne Frank museum in Amsterdam?

Gandhi, Mandela or Martin Luther King would all be good choices for Man of the 20th century.


No, I havn't been to the museum - I havn't been to Amsterdam, but it would be interesting to visit.

I agree with those choices as well.
Geoff

I thought the answer was "The unsung hero".
Swede33

I would say, Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela.
Here you have two people who sacrified so much for their beliefs.
Mother Teresa for the poor and Nelson Mandela for equality between the black and white population in SouthAfrica.
André in Zuid-Afrika

We celebrated a very special birthday in South Africa today...

Quote:
Nelson Mandela, anti-apartheid icon, Nobel peace laureate and South Africa's first black president, celebrated his 90th birthday Friday by doing something he had indicated he would not do again -- grant an interview to journalists.


Mandela sits at the 6th Nelson Mandela Lecture in Soweto, Johannesburg.

1 of 3 more photos »  A cheerful-looking Mandela welcomed CNN's Robyn Curnow, along with reporters from two other organizations, into the sitting room of his home in Qunu, a small village in the rolling hills of South Africa's eastern Cape region where he grew up.

"What day is this?" Mandela joked, pretending not to realize it was his birthday.

He used a smile to dodge Curnow's first question of what was his favorite memory from his long life. He did say he was very happy to have lived to be 90.

Mandela credited his longevity to the way he conducted his life. He is known to be disciplined with his diet and exercise.

Asked if, in hindsight, he wishes he had spent more time with his family, he answered yes.

"I don't regret it because the things that attracted me were things that pleased my soul."

Graca Machel, whom he married on his 80th birthday, sat nearby and Mandela was surrounded by grandchildren.  Watch Mandela's birthday celebrations »

Mandela then lamented the gap between rich and poor in South Africa.

"Poverty still grips our people. If you're poor, you're not likely to live for long," he said.


All week residents of Qunu, 600 miles south of Johannesburg, have been making preparations for the celebrations. Events planned include a soccer festival, a pop concert and lunch for 500 politicians, veterans of the anti-apartheid struggle and other guests at his home Saturday.

An exhibition of letters that children wrote to Mandela and the late U.S. civil rights campaigner Rosa Parks will be displayed at the Nelson Mandela Museum, a short distance from his house.

"We are very excited," local school principal Mpondomise Ndzambo told the Associated Press, sitting in his office beneath a photograph of the former president. "Usually these celebrations are done in Johannesburg, so this is a way of being part of it." Send your birthday messages

In 1964, a court sentenced Mandela to life in prison for plotting to overthrow the government by violence. He spent the first 18 years at Robben Island Prison, off Cape Town, South Africa, and later spent time at Pollsmoor prison and Victor Verster Prison, closer to the mainland.

While in prison, Mandela became recognized as the most significant black leader in South Africa, and he became a potent symbol of resistance in the anti-apartheid movement. Mandela consistently refused to compromise his political position to obtain his freedom.

South Africa's last apartheid-era president who also served as Mandela's vice president, F.W. de Klerk, released Mandela in February 1990 after 27 years in prison. Mandela was elected president of the African National Congress the following year, and in 1994, he was elected president of his country.

As South Africa's first black president -- he only ran for one term -- Mandela ushered in a democratic, multiracial society that is still going strong.

In a fitting tribute de Klerk described Mandela as "one of the greatest figures of the 20th century," AP reported.

Mandela's recent birthday tribute concert in London's Hyde Park marked the 20 year anniversary of the Free Mandela event that was held in the same city to demand his release from prison.

During the concert a frail Mandela told cheering fans, "Your voices carried across the water to inspire us in our prison cells far away. Tonight, we can stand before you free.  Watch Mandela at the party »

"We are honored to be back in London for this wonderful occasion.

"But even as we celebrate, let us remind ourselves that our work is far from complete.

"Where there is poverty and sickness, including AIDS, where human beings are being oppressed, there is more work to be done. Our work is for freedom for all."

Proceeds from the London concert went toward the 46664 Campaign, which Mandela founded in 2003 to raise awareness about the impact of AIDS, especially in Africa, and to promote HIV-prevention measures around the world.

The name of the charity represents Mandela's prison number when he was incarcerated at Robben Island
JLK

I don't intend to offend but I must protest this PC version of Mandela's legacy. It seems to me that most of the world has been taught that Mandela was some sort of peaceful warrior who united and liberated the South African people. The reality is far darker than what most people want to accept. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist who frequently attacked, killed and tortured civilians both white and black, anyone who didn't agree with his ideology. See for yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing


On top of this, both violent crime and HIV have skyrocketed since the end of apartheid. But nobody wants to hear about that either...

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