Porthos
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The West Germanic LanguagesI have noticed somewhat of a continuum between some of the major W. Germanic languages, namely English, Frisian, Dutch, and German, and in that order.
English is on the far left. Frisian is next in between English and Dutch, with Dutch on it's right. And then Dutch is in between Frisian and German, and although slightly less so, in between English and German, while being much closer to German in most cases other than the HGCS.
So, it would look like this.
English ----> Frisian ----> Dutch ----> German
To be more precise, I would label it like this:
(English)...... (Frisian)...(Dutch)..(German)
English to me stands out the most for a number of reasons. Possibly due to long insular development away from the continent and thus producing phonological features like the GVS, and the "th" sound. The shift in meaning of words. Its unique syntax, its unique 'r' sound, and its huge influx of Romance vocabulary, and Romance influence on orthography as well.
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Irrintzi
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for the romance speakers, i think the english is more easy to learn, because several words are similar, most than german or dutch.
The ortographic system is difficult to undestand in dutch or german.
I think you forgot the great scandinavian influence in the english... most than other west germanic language (perhaps the english pronunciation comes from there...), and probably the celtic influence.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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Re: The West Germanic Languages | Porthos wrote: | | its unique 'r' sound |
As far as 'R sounds' are concerned, Standard German and Standard Dutch are not any more similar to each-other than either is to Standard English. However, a similarity can be drawn between Standard Dutch and Scottish Standard English in this regard.
| Quote: | | and its huge influx of Romance vocabulary |
But as we mentioned on the other thread, this only really applies to 'standard' varieties of English.
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Porthos
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| Quote: | | But as we mentioned on the other thread, this only really applies to 'standard' varieties of English. |
But for us 300 million Americans and over 30 million Canadians, "standard English" is the only form of English we speak. So I'm only speaking of standard English just as we are speaking of standard Dutch and standard German.
I would like to see a text in Low German if it's possible. I imagine it would be very close to Dutch.
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Pauline
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Re: The West Germanic Languages | Benjamin wrote: | | As far as 'R sounds' are concerned, Standard German and Standard Dutch are not any more similar to each-other than either is to Standard English. However, a similarity can be drawn between Standard Dutch and Scottish Standard English in this regard. |
Benjamin
I think that there are two standard R sounds in dutch : the one like in french /german and a trilled one. The trilled one in the Netherlands is a short trill and in flanders it's more gentler and longer time trilled. I think that the majority ducth have the uvular R, but the majority of flemish have the trilled one.
So, the R of standard german when it's the uvular one is very similar with this one in dutch. I think that some regions of Germany they have also a trilled R.
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Pauline
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| Irrintzi wrote: | | for the romance speakers, i think the english is more easy to learn, because several words are similar, most than german or dutch. |
I agree, there's *many* words very similar english-french-spanish.
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Benjamin [inactive]
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| Porthos wrote: | | I would like to see a text in Low German if it's possible. I imagine it would be very close to Dutch. |
There are different versions of Low German, depending on whether the orthography used is based upon Dutch or upon German; here are some examples from different versions of Wikipedia. I think you should be able to understand the first one at least:
Nedersaksich (lit: Low Saxon)
't Nedersaksisch is een groep neet-estandardiseerde West-Germaanse Nederduutse variëteiten, dee veurnamelijk in 't noordelijke deel van Duutslaand en in 't noordoostelijke deel van Nederlaand epraot wonnen (de previnsies Grunningen, Drenthe, Overiessel, de Gelderse contreinen de Veluwe, de Achterhoek, en de Stellingwarven in 't zujen van Frieslaand).
Nederlaand en Duutslaand erkennen 't Nedersaksisch officieel as streektaal en steunen 't op een beteund nivo, zoas eformeleerd in kapittel 2 van 't Europees Haandves veur regionale talen of talen van minderheden. Duutslaand hef 't haandves neet etekend, en wonnen daor dus oek neet as een officiële taal ezien deur de regering. In de Europese Unie is 't liekewels een officieel erkende streektaal.
Plattdüütsch (lit: Flat German)
Plattdüütsch is ene germaansche Spraak. Se höört dor denn to de westgermaanschen Spraken. Se hett den tweten germaanschen Luudwannel nich mitmaakt un is dormit ene nedderdüütsche Spraak. De Utdrück Nedderdüütsch un Neddersassisch warrt denn ok ganz faken jüstso bruukt as Plattdüütsch. Plattdüütsch is in de Europääsche Charta vun de Regional- un Minnerheitenspraken opnahmen.
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Fredrik
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A cute-tragic and easy Low German poem:
Klaus Groth:
Lütt Matten de Haas
Lütt Matten, de Haas,
de maak sik en Spass,
he weer bi't Studeern,
dat Danzen to leer'n
un danz ganz alleen
op de achtersten Been.
Keem Reinke, de Voss,
un dach: Dat's en Kost !
Un seggt: "Lüttje Matten,
so flink op'e Padden ?
Un danzt hier alleen
op'e achtersten Been ?
Kumm, laat uns tosaam !
Ik kann as de Daam !
De Kreih, de speelt Fietel,
denn geiht dat canditel,
denn geiht dat mal schön
op de achtersten Been !"
Lütt Matten geev Poot.
De Voss beet em doot
un sett sik in'n Schatten,
verspies de lütt Matten:
De Kreih, de kreeg een
vun de achtersten Been.
With English translation:
Lütt Matten, de Haas, = little Matt(hew) the Hare
de maak sik en Spaß, = he makes himself a joy (=amuses himself)
he weer bi't Studeern, = he was studying
dat Danzen to leer'n = the dancing to learn
un danz ganz alleen =and that quite alone
op de achtersten Been. = on his hind bone (=leg)
Keem Reinke, de Vos, = Came Reinke the Fox
un dach: Dat's en Kost ! = and thought: That's a dish!
Un seggt: "Lüttje Matten, = And says: "Little Matt"
so flink op'e Padden ? = so agile on the paws
Un danzt hier alleen = and dances here alone
op'e achtersten Been ? = on the hind leg?
Kumm, laat uns tosaam ! = Come, let us (dance) together
Ik kann as de Daam ! = I can (dance) as the dame (= lady)
De Kreih, de speelt Fietel, = The crow, he plays (the) fiddle
denn geiht dat canditel, = then goes it great
denn geiht dat mal schön = then goes that just fine
op de achtersten Been !" = on the hind leg!"
Lütt Matten geev Poot. = Little Matt gives paw (=stretches out paw dog-like,)
De Vos beet em doot = The Fox bites him dead
un sett sik in'n Schatten, = and sits (down) in the shadow
verspies de lütt Matten: = consumes (the) little Matt:
De Kreih, de kreeg een = The crow, he gets one
vun de achtersten Been = of the hind legs
Perhaps the background for the poem comes from that famous medieval Low German work "Reinke de Vos".
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Pauline
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nasty fox and crow 
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Pauline
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Benjamin
it's true what I've written about the dutch and german R so it's *not* necessary ignoring my message like you have. The standard ducth and standard german R can be very similar and much more similar that the english R. This is *fact*.It's because the both of this languages have alternative standard Rs.
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Porthos
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To me, the Dutch and German 'r's both just sound like uvular ones to be, although the 'r's at the end of words in Dutch sound like American English 'r's to me.
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Porthos
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I feel like practicing saying things I know in Dutch, just for the hell of it. Those who speak Dutch, feel free to correct me.
Wat zei u? Ik zei wij aten. En een appel. Dat is beter. Liefde is goed. Een man en een vrouw en een kind. Een meisje en een jongen.
Lol
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