| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| fab |
Travel to Stockolm(Hello André, maybe it would be nice to post it in a "travel" section, in which we could give us advices for our respective travels.)I will go to Stockholm next weekend. I would like to knwo if some of you already have been there and what would they advice me to see/to do outside of the main attractions ? Thanks ! For what I read, I think it will be nice ! 
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
A travel forum is an excellent idea! Why didn't I think of that!! 
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| Deborah |
I've never been to Stockholm and know virtually nothing about it. However, I've seen several dance companies from Stockholm, and they were excellent. In case you have some interest in dance, here are a few suggestions:
Royal Swedish Ballet Excellent in the classics but also has a large contemporary repertory. Cullberg Ballet Very strong dancers in classical and modern techniques; the repertory is all avant-garde. Mats Ek is much in demand around the world as a choreographer. I don't like his work, but I like the pieces I've seen by Johan Inger. Rhythm Hot Shots One of the world's best Lindy Hop exhibition dance ensembles. (In case you don't know, the Lindy Hop was the style of swing dance developed by African-Americans in NYC in the 1930s -- in fact, it was the original swing dance.) I don't know whether this group actually does performances in Stockholm; they make lots of appearances at Lindy Hop workshops and competitions. But they're really worth seeing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j9vvkoSxSWk&mode=related&search= |
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| Fredrik |
I have never been there either, but have heard that this is worth seeing:
- Gamla stan = The old town (which is in your picture). Medieval and home of some famous Astrid Lindgren characters, if you know them. - The open air museum Skansen on the island of Djurgården. - The Vasa Museum, which exhibits a Swedish galleon that sank on its maiden voyage in 1628. But I think the main attraction is Stockholm is the fantastic panorama of the interplay of water and architecture. Stockholm has been described as a queen emerging from the Baltic, and has a lot of impressive buildings from Sweden's imperial past. |
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| Walker |
You said it! |
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| Fredrik |
Jag glömde att skriva "Mälardrottningen", men det havde han jo inte als förstått! 
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| Kirk |
Wow jag var frånvarande en verkligt lång stund--är du nu svensk? :D
Det skulle vara jättekul! :) Take some pictures for us! |
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| Fredrik |
Hehe, det är bara min 1/16 svenska afstammning som slår ut af och till!
Och min "svenska" är säkert inte alls recktig. |
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| fab |
I just returned from Sweden...
Stokholm is really a very a beautiful and interesting city, even if a week end is too short to discover the country... It is enough to melt in the ambiance and taste the Swedish life. We actually had luck, the temperature was not to cold, but we had rain (It would be better also under snow...) some pictures : From Sodermalm (southern district) 
The nordic museum 
The medieval part of the city : gamla stan 
Close to the place where I slept 
Ostermalm 
Gamla stan : 
the city hall 
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Great pics, Fab! 
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| Elaine |
Pretty. | ||||||
| Deborah |
Beautiful! Some of it reminds me of St. Petersburg. How many hours of daylight did you have? | ||||||
| Fredrik |
Mmm, I just love the architectural style of Nordiska Muséet: Dutch Renaissance! If I had lots of $$$ I'd build my house in that style...
Stockholms stadshus = City Call (last pic) is also rather famous for its style. Where you shocked by the drunken, barbaric Nordic night life, fab? |
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| fab |
Actually saturday night I was too tired and I went to bed early to see it. I just spend half an hour in a pub. Actually what surprised me is not to see drunk people (we see plenty here), but more the girls behaviour in pub. We saw a lot of groups of girls in the pubs with very "provocative" dressings (even if it was cold) shouting very loud, drinking a lot, etc. having sort of very "masculine" behaviour. That's pretty much unusual for me, in France they would pass for being prostitutes. |
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| fab |
Not many. The night falled at about 15.30... |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
So essentially you're sexist?
That reminds me of Saturday evenings in Ashbourne, which is a small town north of Birmingham where we own a house. You see a lot of groups of young women walking in groups between the pubs and making a lot of noise. Even though they're often rather fat, and even in the winter, they still wear sleaveless tops and short skirts, with their stomach showing. |
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| Elaine |
That sounds like girl's night out in East LA.
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Except that it's in this sort of place, LOL —
 
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| Elaine |
Oh. That looks nothing like East Los.
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| fab |
I remember having seen a TV report about this in England, I didn't know is was as well in Sweden.
I don't know. I wouldn't say "sexist", but I don't think this kind of behaviour is very valorisating for girls. I like that "sexy" dressings and sex eguality, but what I saw would'nt be considered "sexy" by French standards but "vulgaire". I don't think it is necessary to copy a bad masculine behaviour to be considerd equals. |
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| fab |
Elaine,
Is that where you go to party ? Isn't it a bit dangerous ? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I would say that you are sexist because you appear to hold different standards for woman than for men. You accuse the women of 'copying masculine behaviour' — this suggests that you believe that certain behaviour is appropriate for men but inappropriate for woman and perhaps vice versa. Apparently, the loud and quasi-drunk behaviour of those young people in Stockholm was more shocking to you because they were women. I'm afraid that I do not understand this mentality. |
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| fab |
" would say that you are sexist because you appear to hold different standards for woman than for men. You accuse the women of 'copying masculine behaviour' — this suggests that you believe that certain behaviour is appropriate for men but inappropriate for woman and perhaps vice versa. Apparently, the loud and quasi-drunk behaviour of those young people in Stockholm was more shocking to you because they were women. "
I believe that women that act "vulgairement" are not attractive and don't have a positive behaviour for my point of view. Call that being "sexist" if you like. I tend to think that "sexist" reffers to the idea that women should be inferior (such as being paid less, etc.); which I of course don't. I just said I personally don't appreciate girls who try to act this way. But after all I don't care they do what they want, and if it is appreciated by boys in their countries that ok for them !...
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
What about men who behave in that way? Is it less worse for men to behave like that? It's just that I do not make any distinction based upon gender. But maybe that's because I'm asexual and thus have no real reason to.
I tend to think that words like 'sexist' and 'racist' have narrower definitions in French than in English. For example, I have often seen French people using the term 'racisme' as though it only refers to the belief that humans can be divided into 'races' and that certain 'races' are inherently superior than others. However, in English, the term 'racism' often includes a wide range of things including ethnocentricism, xenophobia, miscegenation, ethnic stereotyping, nationalism and monoculturalism. |
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| Deborah |
[My emphasis.] He did say he considered it bad masculine behavior, which seems to indicate that he doesn't find it acceptable for men, either. |
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| Elaine |
Uh, no. Those aren't places that I particularly frequent. Re: women who behave vulgarly in public. I understand where Fab's coming from. It's just plain unattractive for women to behave in such a fashion b/c they come off as cheap and easy and obnoxious. However, this behavior is just as unattractive on a man-- and believe me you win no brownie points with us ladies behaving that way-- where it differs is that this loutish behavior is pretty much expected of men, particularly young men who weren't raised properly. |
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| Loic |
I always feel that pubs should be one of the few last bastions of the male establishment. Girls should only go to clubs but having a pint of lager in somewhere as sacrosanct as a public house - hell, no!
Anyway, pubs here are mainly dedicated to the screening of sport matches. It is a place where male bonding can take place without the distracting presence of the fairer sex. |
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| Loic |
Benjamin:
I have a lot of admiration for girls with less than perfect bodies, but who dare to dress like callgirls without having any stigma whatsoever affixed to their characters. It speaks volumes of their high self-regard, really. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
MdR !!! Looks like home... 
 
Too bad you rarely find things like that : 
True. But I'm a real sexist because I find that women or girls using enculé or j'm'en bats les couilles or fils de pute or nique ta race or rien à branler are definitely sounding unlady-like. Not that their male counterparts sound particularly sophisticated either... But women speaking that way are really *UGLY*... no matter how they actually look like. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I just don't understand why some people have different standards for women than for men. If I see someone making a lot of noise, I think 'that's a person making too much noise'; if I see someone who's drunk, I think 'that's a drunk a person'; if I see someone whom I consider to be dressed badly, I think 'why did that person choose to wear those clothes'. Their gender makes no difference as far as I'm concerned. I do not find loud and swearing women any more ugly or shocking than loud and swearing men — I observe that sort of behaviour from both men and woman on a regular basis and I don't like it coming from anyone.
I tend to find that the way men behave and the way women behave here isn't really very different on the whole. I don't expect it to be either. |
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| Loic |
Once women are as strong as us, run as fast as us and become our physical equal, they have every right in the world to behave as boorishly as us.
Until then, they'd better think long and hard about their behaviour. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Well I know a lot of women who are physically much stronger than me. But I really don't see the connection between the average physical strength of women by relationtion to that of men and the behaviour considered acceptable for women compared to that of men. To me, it seems entirely irrelevant. | ||||||
| fab |
Because here men and women are seen and treated differently , not superior/inferior thing, but different, I think that is basically a good thing. I tend to put to "feminine things" more value. even if anyone is free not to follow his "gender's behaviours"... I don't judge a man or a woman the same way. Call it be sexist if you like, so yes in that way I'm sexist. |
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