The last weeks old people, doctors and nurses, and people in risk groups mostly have had a vaccination to protect them from the flu. But, like all the vaccines, sometimes there will be adverse effects what can cause illness / mortality.
They tell us, that for eradictaion of diseases for exemple smallpox, the vaccine is of great importance. Some countries give children whooping cough vaccine, other ones don't after medical decision - not because of economic considerations (officially at least ).
What you think about vaccinations ? They confuse the immune system and make vulnerable more people for allergy and other immune disorders, or they are absolutly central for our health and protection from diseases who before caused many deaths ?
I think, that from the pharmaceutical companies you don't never hear the truth but what they want to be perceived the truth (finance reasosn). For discover, it must be research by independant companies, but this don't happen, so people will be brainwashed.
Despite they try brainwash us about vaccinations, I think that for certain diseases it is good : diptheria etc...
Then also the subject : the avian flu. Why the panic some months, then silence ? This is a way to give fear so that people will get some vaccinations ? Always there's the risk that there will be pandemic, but so many strains of flu, and the unpredictability of them make it to be impossible predict. This was always so why last year suddenly there was panic, and so many people wanted get the flu vaccination, despite of course it was for completely other strains. Then the ridiculous statistics : the rich countries got big supplies for vaccinate in the case of avain flu is transmiited human-human, but, in the countries where it would be the most probable getting avian mutated version, there wasn't supplies because it was too expensive. How annoying and stupid.
Then , also it interest me to know what you think about the potential of genetics. The knowledge of the human DNA would enable many things they told , but it's true or not ? For sure, there exist genetic differences what can show in for exemple cancer - this genetic can influence you will die / the cancer will disappear. will there exist genetic - based treatments for disease, preventions etc.. It's ethic / unethic change ' nature ' ? I think that to know / understand the most possible is good, but change something you must have prudence. I think that medicine is absolutly at the beginning and probably the end (true knowledge, understanding, ability change/ cure) won't never be realised.
I'd like discuss this in religion /ethic at school, but they discuss boring things for exemple pregnant teenagers.
KSa
Vaccination is a very important tool to fight the diseases. It's not true that vaccines "confuse" your immune system: vaccination is like a controlled infection in which a virus (or a bacterium) is attenuated (weakened) or killed but its "antigenic" structure remains intact and stimulates your immune system to produce immunity against a particular pathogen.
As it comes to the panic caused by avian flu, it's quitet now in Europe - that's true. But remember that the epidemic can return as it repeatedly does in Asia: now there is third or even fourth wave of this epidemic in Asia. As the virus was introduced to Africa it will probably remain there for some time and may infect those wild birds that are due to migrate North next Spring. Then we can expect another wave of bird flu in Europe.
As for the bird flu danger for humans: now the virus is not so dangerous because even if it causes quite significant (more than 50%) mortality in humans it fortunately doesn't spread from human to human. So why are the scientists so concerned? Because if a new mutant occurs which is as pathogenic as the avian virus and additionally can easily jump between humans - then we have a problem.
I don't think the current vaccines can protect humans against bird flu H5 because they are based on human viruses which belong to the types H1 and H3. Anyway, I'm sure that they are effective when it comes to normal, seasonal human flu. You say that there are hundreds of variants of human flu viruses - yes, but they still belong to H1 and H3 subtypes (sometimes H2) and the vaccines can provide effective protection. Even if it's not full it may at least reduce clinical symptoms significantly and for sure prevent death.
And remember that vacination contributed greatly to the fact that such a terrible disease like small pox has been totally eradicated! Think of other diseases which due to the vaccination campaigns are no longer fearful: rabies, polio, measles etc.
Benjamin [inactive]
I'll always be sceptical about any kind of vaccination because of what happened to me when I was given the measles, mumps and rubella triple vaccine when I was baby. Shortly after having the vaccine, I had encephalitis which was followed by 13 febrile convulsions (essentially epileptic fits) over the next few years. We believe that this was caused by a bad batch of vaccine, as a friends daughter developed severe epilepsy from having a booster measles, mumps and rubella vaccination at around the same time.
Quote:
I'd like discuss this in religion /ethic at school, but they discuss boring things for exemple pregnant teenagers.
Lol, that reminds me of when I was about 12 when we used to have an eccentric woman from a sexual health charity come into school to talk to us. It was all stuff about methods of contraception, how to put a condom on, how to have vaginal, anal and oral sex, how to masturbate, what to do if you're a teenager who gets pregnant...
Porthos
Lol. That reminds me. One of my sex-ed teachers in Junior High used to chant: "Sex can wait! Masturbate!"
KSa
Benjamin wrote:
I'll always be sceptical about any kind of vaccination because of what happened to me when I was given the measles, mumps and rubella triple vaccine when I was baby. Shortly after having the vaccine, I had encephalitis which was followed by 13 febrile convulsions (essentially epileptic fits) over the next few years. We believe that this was caused by a bad batch of vaccine, as a friends daughter developed severe epilepsy from having a booster measles, mumps and rubella vaccination at around the same time.
Yes, but in this case it s not vaccine itself that caused problems but a bad quality vaccine (badly manufactured, after expiry date etc.). Anyway, I deeply sympathise with you because what was to bring health - caused illness...
Pauline
Benjamin wrote:
Shortly after having the vaccine, I had encephalitis which was followed by 13 febrile convulsions (essentially epileptic fits) over the next few years. We believe that this was caused by a bad batch of vaccine, as a friends daughter developed severe epilepsy from having a booster measles, mumps and rubella vaccination at around the same time.
That is truly terrible. It sound like, you don't anymore have fits, but of course it was a very serious reaction. Your friend's daughter has severe epilepsy now ? I hope, that she don't have it.
Benjamin wrote:
]when I was about 12 when we used to have an eccentric woman from a sexual health charity come into school to talk to us. It was all stuff about methods of contraception, how to put a condom on, how to have vaginal, anal and oral sex, how to masturbate, what to do if you're a teenager who gets pregnant...
LOL !!! When you were 12 !!!!!
Porthos wrote:
Lol. That reminds me. One of my sex-ed teachers in Junior High used to chant: "Sex can wait! Masturbate!"
LOL !! I wish that my teachers would say funny things, but they say only boring ones.
Uriel
Well, my vet used to say that vaccinations, like medications, were all about weighing the risks and the benefits. Anything that you put into the body carries the risks of side effects, allergic reactions, toxicity, or just not working as intended. He used to say that he could tell everybody in the city to take two aspirin, and statistically, there would be one or two that would end up in the emergency room from what is, for most people, a very innocuous medication. That's just individual variation at work.
So his strategy was to weight the risks of the disease the vaccine is supposed to protect you from from the risks of taking the vaccine itself. If the disease is highly dangerous or fatal, you're probably better off taking the vaccine. If you are unlikely to fall prey to the disease in the first place, i.e you are a healthy young adult, why bother? But if you are elderly or sickly, a bout of flu really could kill you! You would be advised to get the shot. Your risks of getting the flu and being hospitalized or even dying are much greater than the low risk of having a reaction to the shot itself.
No, vaccination is not in and of itself a bad thing. It has saved far more lives than it has taken. But there are many factors that determine if you should or shouldn't get one -- age, susceptibility, likelihood of encountering the disease -- there is no blanket yes or no answer for everyone.
Loic
It has been empirically proven that the benefits far outweigh the costs so vaccination can only be a good thing.
Of course, the disappearance of diseases such as smallpox does render certain kinds of vaccinations unnecessary. But then again, this is a rather dry topic which the Ministry of Health does best in tackling.
Joanne
Well, I guess they missed a couple of strains in the flu vaccine this year, because I still got the flu. Curses....
Pauline
loic wrote:
It has been empirically proven that the benefits far outweigh the costs so vaccination can only be a good thing.
I disagree, that it can only be a good thing ; maybe in most cases, it's the better thing to vaccinate, but there are sometimes adverse reactions so it will be a good thing but have exceptions when it isn't good forexemple Benjamin's experience and many other people who had problesm after.
Quote:
Of course, the disappearance of diseases such as smallpox does render certain kinds of vaccinations unnecessary. But then again, this is a rather dry topic which the Ministry of Health does best in tackling.
Dry topic, it means a topic who is quite boring ? sorry that I can't exactly understand.
Minsitry of Health consist of human beings, therefore there will be mistakes, sometimes unintentional sometimes with basis of corruption. in the ministry probably there will be also disagreements, but they must have a policy and of course, everywhere this policy is that vaccination is good and everone must vaccinate. The ministry can tell what it want, but we can think for ourself also.
I don't know what's my opinion, but for sure vaccination can't be always good. There are effects occurring and this can be denied by the pharmaceutical companies. How about effects what are occurring many years after ? It's possible that there are some slow changing things and consequences. for exemple, BSE was a cow disease, and humans have ate this meat -then some suffered Creutzfeld-Jaocb much time later. This is similar with vaccine, no ? some dead disease put into your body, and your body reacts ; after the vaccine, evidently this reaction is create anti-bodies for immunity but then what if this don't occur but there's caused some bad changes, or this does occurs and other things also.
Another point : vaccines protect you during very short time - few years. Most people believe that you get the vaccination then you won't never get the disease.Vaccinations are absoluty not so efficient. So, I think it would be very good developping a new system for protect us from disease, what isn't dangerous/ temporary. But, disease is necessary because all organisms must exist, so it's just quite an enigma.
Joanne
Pauline wrote:
BSE was a cow disease, and humans have ate this meat -then some suffered Creutzfeld-Jaocb much time later. This is similar with vaccine, no ? some dead disease put into your body, and your body reacts ; after the vaccine, evidently this reaction is create anti-bodies for immunity but then what if this don't occur but there's caused some bad changes, or this does occurs and other things also.
Not quite, Pauline. BSE and Creutzfeld-Jakob are not viral and/or bacterial diseases. They're caused by prions, which are proteins that are actually abundant in healthy bodies, especially in the brain. The problem is that sometimes these proteins fold in a dangerous way, and cause other proteins to malform also. This malformation makes them unresponsive to the body's protease, the enzyme that breaks down proteins.
As of yet, there are no satisfactory vaccines against prion infections because so much of their infection mechanism is still unknown.
Pauline wrote:
Another point : vaccines protect you during very short time - few years. Most people believe that you get the vaccination then you won't never get the disease.
That's why you're supposed to get booster shots every ten years....
Loic
Pauline:
Yes, a dry topic is a subject with little scope for much debate and where any decisions taken are largely routine and programmed. Vaccinations have been part of public health since the turn of the last century and while I do not profess to be an expert on the manner, I have been given to understand that they are universally beneficial.
When I was doing my service, we were obliged to be immunised against Hep B before flying overseas for military exercises. Since none of us contracted this revilved disease whilst fulfilling our engagements, this little vaccination exercise must had been an unqualified success.
Pauline
Loic,
The decisions can be routine and programmed, but this don't prevent us think about it and maybe have another opinion that the official ministry decision.
Your vaccination can have been a succes, but it's possible nobody of you didn't had some contact with the disease, so with / without vaccination wouldn't get it, also, maybe there was some side effects after the vaccination of what you are unaware. Protection from the disease is the object of the vaccination but not the single element for decide it's succes /not.
But, I think we agree, that mostly, vaccinations are good and the risk of adverse effects usually will be much lesser that the disease against which is the vaccination.
Joanne,
Thanks for explaining - I can see what you mean, that the prions don't resemble bacteria/virus how your body will make an immune system reaction. I was very silly to not realise this & I dont' know why I put it in my preceding message because it's evident !!!
But I think it's better we think about vaccinations, medicines etc.. before we accept all and are completely subservient bescaue if there will be bad reactions to those, then the doctors don't believe because officially they're safe and great etc...
Joanne, why you had the flu vaccination ? I hope that you're better now after you had the flu *despite* the vaccination.
Joanne
Pauline wrote:
But I think it's better we think about vaccinations, medicines etc.. before we accept all and are completely subservient bescaue if there will be bad reactions to those, then the doctors don't believe because officially they're safe and great etc...
You're supposed to think about anything you put inside or on your body, that's just basic personal responsibility. But I don't understand how you think we can be subservient to doctors when we can elect not to take medicine they prescribe, or other treatments they recommend.
Pauline wrote:
Joanne, why you had the flu vaccination ?
Well, I've lived with doctors and people working in the medical field most of my life. I'd probably get the flu several times every year if I didn't get the vaccine.
Pauline wrote:
I hope that you're better now after you had the flu *despite* the vaccination.
Much better, thank you All flu vaccines are only about 70% effective. I guess they didn't include the influenza strain I caught in this year's vaccine. It didn't help that I had sinusitis the week before I caught the flu from my husband, either. Opportunistic infection, and all that.
Pauline
Joanne wrote:
I don't understand how you think we can be subservient to doctors when we can elect not to take medicine they prescribe, or other treatments they recommend.
You're adult, so you've the choice. I'm 14, and when I say I don't want taking my medicine, they inject it in me. So, evidently it's not possible ' elect' or not.
Pauline wrote:
I hope that you're better now after you had the flu *despite* the vaccination.
Joanne wrote:
Much better, thank you
Good
Joanne
Oh, oops. I forgot your age, Pauline! My bad...
Uriel
Quote:
vaccines protect you during very short time - few years.
Actually, it depends on the vaccine (and the disease for which it protects): some require regular boosters, like tetanus, while others (like the polio vaccine I had as a child) need never be repeated as an adult.
I find the HPV vaccine intriguing, although it has only been approved for a narrow age range which I am unfortunately too old for. HPV is the main cause of cervical cancer, and I would certainly be interested in anything that could protect me from a type of cancer -- especially when HPV is such a common sexually-transmitted virus. I would be lining up for an HIV vaccine as well -- why take chances?
Likewise for my pets: having seen the nasty deaths puppies suffer from parvo, which is endemic in Las Cruces, I would never take a chance and leave my dogs unvaccinated. Likewise for distemper: we had a family of clients that refused to vaccinate their dogs and distemper killed went through their house like a wildfire, killing most of them. We had a South American man who refused to pay for anything but the rabies vaccine required by law, even though we warned him about parvo -- his puppy got it, and several hundred dollars later, luckily survived. Afterwards he apologized for not taking us seriously -- he said that where he was from, people were skeptical of such things and you eaither survived or you didn't -- he thought we were just out to take his money for somthing that his puppy didn't really need.
As for the flu vaccine, one reason why it is not 100% effective is because there are many flu viruses, and they mutate extemely rapidly. New vaccines have to be developed every year, and sometimes by the time they're on the market, some strains of the virus will be different enough that it is ineffective against them!
All flu vaccines are only about 70% effective. I guess they didn't include the influenza strain I caught in this year's vaccine. It didn't help that I had sinusitis the week before I caught the flu from my husband, either. Opportunistic infection, and all that.