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| Porthos |
Your favorite culturesWhat cultures, other than your own of course, do you find most particularly interesting? I'm a Mexican-American, so I'm a Hispano-Anglophone. Obviously, these are my two favorite cultures, but, if I had to pick others which are particularly interesting to me, I would say French and Italian culture. For those of you who don't really believe in a "Celtic culture" in the modern sense, this might sound like a cliche, but I do appreciate the culture which Celtic peoples see as a common identity, even if that just means a Gaelic-English accent, and bagpipes.Having personally visited Mayan villages, I must say that I find these people intriguing. And there are certain things which I really admire about Japanese culture, while there are others that I do not. |
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| fab |
I believe in an "Atlantic-European" ambiance, we call it "celtic" quite unappropriatly I think. Actually I feel close to this atlantic culture, because my grandparents were from Britanny, were I went oten. You should go living in the Atlantic side of Spain, where spanish people live in little fishing ports under rain ang mysty air, wind and fresh air, and play bagpipes... in a place that looks like to Ireland. Very nice wild regions ! 
"celtic rock" from Britanny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsBL-s85eaQ |
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| Porthos |
What do you have against the word "Celtic"? Do you expect modern Celtic people to be playing the part of Druids and worshipping ancient Celtic gods? Times have changed, just as Latins no longer wear togas and worship Roman gods. That doesn't mean a Celtic identity doesn't exist. The languages are still there, even if they're rarely used. And in any case, whatever language they do speak, is still heavily influenced by Celtic phonologies, such as Galician, or the Gaelic accented English of the Irish and Scots. The ethno-cultural idenity is still present among Celtic peoples as well, even if they are not entirely ethnically homogenous throughout so called "Celtic countries", although I would argue that the people of Wales, Ireland, and Scotland are all pretty much of one ethnic stock. The same is not the case with modern continental Celtic regions like Brittany or Galicia. And the impassioned music of the Celts, which plays a pivitol role in all cultures (legend, a culture's history, pastimes, folktales, are all passed down from generation to generation by means of music), is also something they share in common. So for me, a Celtic identity is definitely very real, and just as real as a Latin or Germanic or Slavic one. And apparently the Celtic people themselves agree. They've created leagues of Celtic countries, and they have very strong regional or nationial pride, and vividly see themselves as distinct ethnic groups. | ||||
| Porthos |
If you and every body in your neighborhood looked like these girls, and you had a Celtic last name, and very well may have a Celtic first name, would you still want to be grouped in with "Germanic" people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y71LMy8dm_Q |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Well, I have a reputation at school for being obsessed with Belgium. It all stems from a French lesson about a year ago, where we were discussing why we had chosen to continue with academic education after the age of 16. I said something like:
J'ai choisi de continuer mon education pour pouvoir habiter à Bruxelles et devenir Belge dans l'avenir. When I was in Vichy last month with several people from school, we walked down a road called 'Rue de Belgique' (which, incidentally, has a lot of Brussels-style architecutre -- Vichy is quite a strange place, actually). They took a photograph of me by the roadsign. |
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| Loic |
Like Benjamin, I am intrigued by Belgium culture as well. My abortive attempts at studying Dutch were inspired in part by my need to understand the country in its entirety.
Otherwise, I am also very interested in Canadian culture in general and Quebecois mentality in particular. I am especially interested in Quebecois nationalism and although I am definitely not a stakeholder in this entire debate regarding the direction which Quebec should take, I have found myself choosing a position that is favourable to an independent outcome. I am also fascinated by the cultures of many South-east Asian countries, but I suppose nobody here would understand what I am talking about if I were to go into specifics. |
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| fab |
" What do you have against the word "Celtic"? "
I have nothing against it when it is apply to people who have really a celtic culture. Having a culture is not only a wish of itentify yourself with a people or an ancestry, it should also be a reality of everyday life. I'm sorry, but in most so-called "celtic" countries most people don't have a celtic culture, celtic way of life, etc. Some of those people want to separate themselves from Anglo (or French in the case of Britanny, or Spanish in the case of Galicia) for political reasons, and try to re-invent and re-identify with an imaginary culture in but it is generally very artificial and superficial, often limited to the so-called "celtic music". I somtimes listen and like this kind of music, I am for this a Celt ? Even when speaking of music, bagpipe music is often presented to the the tipical "celtic" instrument. This association is quite new and come from the "recent "revival" of the so-called "celtic identity". The problem is that bagpipe at the origin is not coming from extreme west Europe but was used in all places of the continent (even in north africa!) before slowly disappearing and being re-appropriated as an exclusive symbol of "celticness". http://www.musee-europemediterranee.org/actualite_acquis_cornemus.html the myth of the "celtic race" : the today celticness (at leat in Britanny) is a completly reconstruted artificial idetentity based upon imaginary of a past that never existed as a united identity, only one third of britanny has been populated by "celtic-speaking peoples" and was speaking "celtic"... http://fa-souvenance.zaup.org/enter/article.php3?id_article=29 |
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| fab |
" If you and every body in your neighborhood looked like these girls, and you had a Celtic last name, and very well may have a Celtic first name, would you still want to be grouped in with "Germanic" people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y71LMy8dm_Q " I don't see how you can associate the definition of celticness with this precise type of look. The people in so-called "celtic nations" have a very wide range of looks (yourself you recognised that pale-skin-red-haired look was tipically "celtic" - I don't think these girls share at all this look! Does the people in Ireland who are tall/blond-haired are not considered celts or Irish for you ? On the other side, if to be germanic you should necessary should be tall/blond-haired look, so maybe only Scandinavian countries could be called that way. 
So, applying your logic, is the red-haired german girl not germanic ? and the boy neither, because his hair is darker ? 
This red-haired austrian is not germanic ? 
Only the girl on the right is germanic ? the 2 other germans are celts ? |
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| Elaine |
Fab, those photos of that Spanish town were loverly. Where exactly is that? That's a side of Spain I never see in pictures.
I think you should share your fascination with us. Maybe it will spark our interest in SE Asia too. |
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| Icke |
A culture that I find interesting is the Japanese one but also the South-American culture. In the future, I would love to visit Japan and countries such as Chile, Peru or maybe Costa Rica or Panama.
Hi Fab, I guess, those guys aren't Germans. The girls are Swedish and the guy in the center is from England because of the football shirts 
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| fab |
Ah, ok, maybe, but my exemple works even better... So Josh may think that the swedish dark-haired girl canno't be considered as germanic... ?
That's true, Atlantic Spain has not much worldwide exposure (excepted maybe for Santiago de Compostella). people generally think "hot and sunny mediterranean beaches and resorts" when they think Spain, while the Atlantic side is often forgotten. It is not only one town, but some various places not far from Portugal, in Galicia, Asturias, and Castilla y Leon. the walled town is named "lugo". Castilla (the center of Spain) is often also badly know, it is very different from what much people can expect, as the ambiance is not really following the cAndalucian clichés. I love also Madrid and castilla y Leon region where I've this summer : 
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| Porthos |
No, I am not denying that certain physical characteristics can be found in both Germanic and Celtic populations. I am simply speaking of the frequency of these physical characteristics. If a certain feature is very common in one population group, we tend to identify that feature with that population group. For instance, many would say that pale skin, freckles, and red hair is the "mark of the Irish". In Mexico, peope will ask you if you are Irish because of your "pelo colorado". But also, among Celtic peoples of the British Isles, dark features are very common, and this is something which is uniquely Celtic, that tends to distinguish them from Germanic peoples. People like Collin Farrel, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Clive Owen, Ioan Gruffud, etc., certainly do not look like most Germanic people. The Welsh girls in the link that I provided also certainly do not look "Germanic". So, this look, which is common among the Welsh, and other Celtic people of the British Isles, is a distinguishing feature, which sets them apart from continental Germanic people. Many attribute these dark features to original inhabitants of Britain, who came from Iberia and were related to the Basque. Britain was later settled by Celts from the continent, who then Celticized the local aborigines. So, this look later came to be associated with Celtic populations. The word "Celtic" when referring to an ethnic group does not have to be a precise "scientific" classification. |
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| fab |
As a European, I have a lot of inters in all Europe, what I like especially is the gret diversity of our cultures in a little land. This is what makes Europe interesting. I always had a strong interest to the mediterranean region especially concern urbanism and way of life, In mediterranean Europe, Asia and Africa. I always had a fascination for Asian cultures. A few years ago I was very interested by Japan, but now I tend to have more interest to south east asian cultures, although I recognise I don't know much about them. Since a few years i have a strong interest to Spanish-speaking cultures, both in Spain and latin-America. What I like, outside of the unification due to the spanish language is the huge diversity of these lands, where most of the culture is born from a mestisaje of very different influences, which gave unique and diverse results. South and central America is also fascinating for its natural incredibly richness, and also for the mystery of its ancient native civilisations. |
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| Pauline |
I think, that some of europe is very interesting, arabic countries, India and some african countries.
If it wouldn't look absolutely ridiculous, I would wear an indian sari or arabic bellydance clothes all the time because i find them so beautiful. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Très belles photos de l'Espagne atlantique, fab. Tu connais Gijon et Saint-Sébastien ?
The culture I find very interesting is that of Ancient Greece. 
And that of Muslim Spain.   
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| Porthos |
Greg,
If I might ask, why muslim Spain? |
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| Deborah |
Try us! I'm interested. |
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| Loic |
To begin with, I am especially interested by temple ruins in Indochina. I marvel at how Angkor Watt was a bustling city back in the 14th century and its inglorious fall into decline always put me in a pensive thought. I suppose I'd be equally awed if I were to talk about Macchu Pichu but that falls in another part of the world.
Angkor Watt at dusk 
Elephant statues - Buddhist Angkor Watt displays plenty of Hindu influences. In Burma, there is the magnificent Shwe Dagon Pagoda. I've been to that place before and it's a really clean and well-maintained place despite the absymal living conditions in the country. 
Built during the Dark Ages of Europe - 6th to 8th century. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Ce doit être un lieu magnifique — digne d'être la huitième merveille du monde.
For many reasons ranging from pure imaginary to this observation : Muslim Spain is the missing link between the Visigoths and Don Quichotte, between Europe and Northern Africa, between Ancient Greece and la Sorbonne, between la chanson de geste (epic) and la fin'amor (amour courtois), between Alexandrine neoplatonism and aristotelism. Muslim and Norman Sicily, too, belong to that kind of civilisation that worked like a major cultural hub. Not to mention the Arabic lexical input into the languages of Oïl & Oc. |
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| fab |
Salut Greg, Oui, je connais; mais malheureusement ça fait un peu longtemps que je n'y suis pas allé et les souvenirs sont un peu flous. I actually love all Spain. As for muslim spain, even if Andalucia has more obvious traces of muslim influence, it could be found also in all Spain. The Castel of Segovia we see above in Castilla, is name "el Alcazar", and was at the origin an arab castle, (even if now most people think it as a "central european" castle). Andalucia is were the "west" has melted with the muslim civilisation. I think the mix of both is very interesting, especially when we see that Andalucia was the apogee of muslim civilisation in all points, at a time when christian Europe was in dark ages. I love so much this region. Sevilla, Cordoba and Granada are marvelous: The mesquita, it was once the biggest mosque of the world, befaore having been tranformed into a cathedral by charles Quint. 
The roofs of sevilla, almost north Africa yet (with 45°!) 
Patios, trace of the arab way of life. Patios were frequent in Roman Europe but disappeared after the fall of the Roman empire. due to arab colonisation it still be a very important organisation in southern Spain architecture and urbanism. 
The biggest catheral of the world: wit the tower being a former minaret. 
And the alhambra of Granada, the better arab architecture of Europe: 
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| Porthos |
The patio archetectural design is very common throughout Hispanic-America as well. Spanish architecture is my favorite. I must say that I like French/Italian architecture more than anything the Muslims ever created.
But, when I started this thread, I didn't intend on including extinct cultures and civilizations in the topic. I was only referring to modern cultures, but as long as everyone is doing otherwise, I'll pitch in. My favorite historical cultures: Meso-American, pre-Columbian America Ancient imperial China Fuedal Japan and Imperial Japan Ancient Rome Ancient Greece Ancient Persia Ancient India Byzantines Renaissance Europe |
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| fab |
What kind of Spanish architecture do you like ? It is very diverse in the different regions... To me the most specifically "spanish" architecture is especially the one born after the mix with muslim art (mudejar style). You can find also in Spain a lot of medieval architecture (military fortresses: Spain is the European country of castles, where comes from the name of the core of Spain; "castilla"), gothic churches, renaissance, baroque, classical, neo classical or modern international style architecture, but they are less "tipicallly spanish" since it can be found outside of Spain. |
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| Porthos |
Well, I'm not an expert in the field of architecural aesthetics, but the Spanish architecture I'm talking about, might be called the Spanish colonial style, as is found throughout much of Latin America. The red tile roofs, the patios, the balconies and terraces, the white bleached walls, the arches, the vibrantly colored tile floors, etc. It's sometimes called a "Hacienda" style.
http://www.melbalevickphotos.com/casa_california/pages/casa_cal041.htm http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/25...ALA2002_Platinum_pix_6-238-8B.jpg These are sort of bad examples, but that's all I could find without devoting too much time. The area in which I live is mainly of the Spanish style architecture. It's a coastal area, with most industry framed around the vinyards. |
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| fab |
OK I see, what you like seems to be more precisely the Andalucian architecture and colonial style (which is of andalucian origins with some evolutions)
It has its origins mainly in the muslim art, but also mixed it with the roman tradition (canal tiles roofs that you find in most parts of the mediterranean European regions). The andalucian patio was of direct Arab influence, but the Arabs get it from the Romans, but it existed already in other forms in antic Greece. The terraces-roofs and white bleach walls is also a characteristic of the arab influence in southern Spain. (and due to extreme southern European climate, as in greece or the extreme south of Italy) Outside of those southern (and in a lesser extend eastern regions of mediterranean Spain), the Spanish architecture doesn't have this tipical look, in most part because of a lesser Arab influence. Sevilla old town (santa cruz district) seems to be the spanish style you like: 
it is quite different from central and northern regions of spain that I posted at the begining of the topic. |
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| Porthos |
Those which you posted from places like Sevilla or Cordoba are a little different from what I have in mind, but you get the general picture. I can definitely see a lot of Arab influence in the architecture. To me, it's like a Roman/Arab hybrid, which is different from Southern French or Italian design. The Andalucian style had the most impact on Latin America, by far, as most settlers were from this region. The regional accents were also derived from the Andalucian model. And that is why most Spaniards in Hispano-America have that "Antonio Banderas" stereotype look, I think. But I absoultely adore this style. The architectue where my uncle lives is beautiful. He lives in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. | ||||
| Loic |
Fab: The Moorish influences in Spanish architecture is a visual delight. In fact, I am now inspired to have my dream home built in that style. Somehow, Moorish-Iberian architecture seems to lend itself well to countries with a warmer climate.
Greg: It's actually thanks to the French that Angkor Watt was 're-discovered'. In fact, the ruins are still in the process of being restored with French technical expertise. Throughout South-east Asia with the exception of The Philippines, there are many temple ruins that bear mute testimony the sway which Buddhism once had over the region. It is now in full retreat in the Indonesian archipelago but a wonderful legacy remains. Borobodur in Java is a must-visit if you ever find yourself in the region. When I was visiting ruins in Mandalay, I had this sensation of being transported back to an earlier unspoiled era. I am a romantic and I romanticise events so I like to imagine a life that was simpler and unspoilt before the ravaneous intrusion of the modern world made an appearance. Porthos: I suppose ancient China is always a fascinating field of study. Don't you fancy being a eunuch in the imperial court? I am just pulling your leg, of course! |
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| Porthos |
<>
Oh yeah! Bring it on baby! It sounds like loads of fun! Seriously, if I was a eunuch, I would just kill myself. Especially considering the inhumane ways in which children were castrated in imperial China. |
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| Loic |
Lol. Eunuchs wielded plenty of influence in the imperial courts and many poor parents actually hoped that their sons might become one. It was seen as a way out of poverty.
Besides, a eunuch gets to cavort with the Emperor's concubines. And he had one concubine for every night of the year. |
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| Porthos |
Oh, I know. But that was why the Eunuchs were allowed to live amongst the concubines. He needed men to watch them, but not *real* men, lol! And despite the fact that being a Eunuch promised a life of luxury and decadence, and political influence at the court, I would still want to be a regular man. I would take a good woman and a family any day over the alternative. And in addition to that, there were hundreds of eunuchs at the imperial court, so only a select few really had the emperor's ear. There were constant power struggles, and assasinations. It was a cut-throat, dog-eat-dog atmosphere at the court. And one if you ended up being one of the eunuchs assigned to wipe the emperor's butt? LMAO! |
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| fab |
Yes, this Spanish colonial style of andalucian origns had a wide extend in a lot of places in latin-america, especially in the oldest cities of Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico, La havane or Santo Domingo: Some places in the colonial city of Cuzco, in peru or quito in Ecuador could (almost) pass for being in Spain. it has olso quite much western spanish and galician, almost portuguese look in some ways (especially for th churchs). 
Curiously, a lot of the most "spanish" style colonial cities of latin-america are cities with a very big number of native peoples (cuzco is one of the cities with the most of "spanish" architecture in LA, and in the same time one of the main historical centers of the native life. In latin america there are also a lot of other architectural influences than andalucian spanish. The specific tropical climate of central-Am and caribean region gave birth to a tipical urban ambiance not very "spanish": I liked Costa Rica when I visited it last year 
[img]ours.com/images/San_Jose_CR.jpg[/img] 
But "hispanic" architecture can be very different too, Buenos aires has very few spanish inlfuence in its architecture. Other European influences are very strong, especially Parisian : I liked Argentina very much when I visited it in 2001 
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| Porthos |
I also very much like the Parisian style. It is very different from most Italian architecture and very different from Spanish styles, but I like it. Northern European architecture seems "cozy" to me, for lack of a better word. I suppose because they are found in colder regions like the New England or northern Europe, and they offer an inviting shelter to escape from the cold, and relax with a hot cup of coffee.
But, I have never been to any LA country except for Mexico. Where my family is from, you will see a lot of Spanish architecture (northern Mexico has a higher rate of criollos to natives than most of central and southern Mexico), but you will also see a lot of the adobe style homes, and mercados with thatched roofs like some of the pictures. There are a lot of churches and missions, and things of that nature which look characteristically Spanish-colonial style. In southern Mexico, I have been to the Yucutan, Chiapas, and Quintana Roo, where there is tons of native style buildings and homes, since this region is one of the most densely populated by natives. But, the more up-scale neighborhoods are done in the Spanish style, and while it contrasts against the beautiful jungle, it is amazing. The food here is also very different from what you might think of as traditional Mexican food, because it has a lot of Central American, mayan tropical influence, with bananna tamales, black beans, etc. In these areas it is quite rare to see an actual criollo, so I stick out like a sore thumb, and I feel like I am walking on stilts when compared to most people. But there is still traditional Mexican food here, especially at the more upscale restaraunts, with Spanish and French influence. In the brief time that the French occupied Mexico, they contributed much to Mexican cuisine, particularly in pastries and desserts. |
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| fab |
Actually the second exemple is very similar to the parisian "architecture bourgeoise", but a bit higher. The other exemples are more or less Parisian-influenced, mixed with other influences. The traditional/popular architecture would be more like this : .jpg)
Josh, a question of English and Spanish language : how do you call these kind of roofs tipical of southern Europe in English and Spanish ? (is is said "toiture en tuile-canal" in French) 
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| Porthos |
I really like those rooftops, but to be honest, I don't know what they're called in either language, as I'm not much of a architectural buff. But as a layman, I would just call it a "tile rooftop" in English, and a "tejado de teja" in Spanish. | ||||
| Porthos |
Where is that picture from though? From southern France or Tuscany or something? | ||||
| fab |
It is my own town, where my parents live. | ||||
| Porthos |
In Nice? | ||||
| fab |
about 50km from it, but in the insideland, not on the coast. | ||||
| Porthos |
I would love to visit the south of France one day. In fact, if I ever moved to Europe, I would either live in the south of France, Italy, or Spain, but most likely Spain, because of the language barrier in the other two places, lol. Southern France has that "mediterranean ambiance", that I feel the north lacks. In Paris, the architecture is different, and it is situated in northern Europe, so it's like a distant outpost. Do you understand what I mean? | ||||
| Elaine |
Depending on the shape, they're either called Roman tile, Spanish tile, Mission tile, or French tile. But a lay person such as myself usually just collectively call these types of roofs "clay tile" or "terracotta tile" roofs. I don't know the term in Spanish. These roofs are a very popular design choice here in LA. Not only are they attractive IMHO, but they increase the value of your home dramatically. 
This one ^ is supposed to be J-Lo's house, but that puta's never around when I visit!  
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