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| Porthos |
Your perception of AmericansWhat do you think of Americans? What things come to mind when you think of Americans, especially with regard to regional differences between us? For instance, what conceptions do you have of Californians, Texans, or New Englanders, or southerners? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Re: Your perception of Americans
I would say that I have a positive attitude towards Americans in general. I might not have said that a year ago though; actually, I think I said completely the opposite on here. 
On the whole, I see Americans as friendly people who will go out of their way to help you. Last weekend, I went to a Unitarian retreat/conference in Germany. Most people there were Americans, although there were quite a lot of Germans there as well (plus a few others, such as me and a wonderful man from South Africa who made a significant contribution to the ending of apartheid). They were all very friendly, jolly and enthusiastic and we had lots of hugs. One American man there who has lived in Germany for about 30 years was telling me about his experiences when he travelled in the United States last year. He said that whenever they'd had any sort of problem, people were immediately prepared to help and their problems were sorted out very quickly. For example, when their hire car broke down, someone immediately pulled over, asked if they could help and gave them a lift to where they were going. Not only that, but they also went back and picked up the car later, taking it back to the hire car place. We agreed that that sort of thing would never happen in England or Germany.
New Englanders — on the whole, the Americans which are the most similar to North-West Europeans. Californians — basically just kind of general Americans; I have no stereotypical image of Californians in general. Texas and Southerners — I don't really make a distinction between these, even though I probably should. I tend to associate these Americans with Fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity (especially the Southern Baptist Church), social conservatism, hard work and perhaps a certain insularity. I always find this map interesting, as it attempts to divide North America into 'nine nations', crossing political boundaries: 
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| fab |
I think this question depends mainly if the person know the USA or not. Generally, from a European point of view, and especially from a non-Anglophone point of view, most people won't have really a great difference of the Americans from different parts of the continent. Generally there is a love/hate relation beetween the USA and Europe (or at least with France), this country had a good and modern image in the past, but is now more associated with "hard" free-market and the neo-conservative politics. As for the image of the American himself, a frequent image is often based on "the average American tourist", arrogant and seen as not well dressed and not well educated (those kind of people who don't say "bonjour" in shops, not asking "do you speak english, and act as if it was in the US) (sort of "ugly american stereotype"), and is not always very positive. For those of us who know better the USA, we may have a different image of Americans. I personaly had very good relation with the families in which I've been when I was student for exchanges, people were generally very nice and helpfull. I also have seen unfriendly people. I think it is like everywhere, there is nice and less nice people. I tend to think that north Americans (Quebecers included), have very different types of social relations than us. People tend to have a "commercial attitude" (always trying to smile, etc.), they seem very close and at first time, not hesitating to say you're their best friend without knowing you, but the day after they'll have forgot you. This is for us, unconceivable to "play a role" this way, we tend to be much more close and intimate with the persons we know, and more distant with the ones with which we don't especially want to link a friendship. |
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| fab |
Benjamin,
Your map is very interesting. It seems quite right to me. it is more or less like this that I tend to see the "US cultural regions", maybe my vision would be a bit more simple (I think it takes account also of th climate, lanscapes, architecture and the general ambiance : - The north-east, From New england to Great lakes and Chicago. more north-western European, more urban, a lot of English-style architectural influence. politically a bit more "European". - The plains + the rocky mountains area. Conservative, very religious people, very rural life. A lot of people of nordic origins. The myth of the "conquest of the west" Few quite impersonal cities. - Texas (with also maybe New-Mexico and some other states along the mexican border). The paroxysm of the stereotype of the cow-boy. Very conservative and religious as in the previous, we see them as very business-minded people, but also more densely populated (in the case of Texas only), hot desertic or semi-desertic climate and with a lot of Mexican influences. (can include also maybe southern California) - South East-coast. Urban, new and modern area. The "sun belt", attractive regions due to climate, more recently populated, with more people of non-European origins. Quite conservative, sun, leisures and business-based, is seen as cultureally quite superficial - Northern california+Oregon+washinton state, is see as more socially liberal, more "cultural", and maybe politically more leftist. maybe more ecological-minded and nature-based. - The "old-south". The forgotten south, the origin of jazz culture. Rural and more poor. The herency of the black slavery. racial tensions. - south Florida. The capitalist Cuba. |
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| Porthos |
What about California? You guys haven't said anything about California's culture or your perceptions of it. What do you think California is like? | ||||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
I really have no idea. This will probably sound really silly, but I sometimes think of it as maybe being a bit similar to Australia, but then, I don't really know what Australia is like either. |
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| Sander |
Americans ... well I usually see them as one entity but if we're doing subgroups all that springs to mind are the busy New Yorker, Texas cowboy, California surfer and the Southern hick. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
In the US, New Yorkers have a reputation of being unfriendly. But when I lived in NYC, I found many New Yorkers to be the way you describe "us" (Europeans? the French?). Then when I returned to California, I found many Californians to be the way you describe North Americans. |
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| fab |
Yes Josh, I told you th perceptions about california.
Actually I have two: the southern california, which is the image of LA : huge suburbian city along the beaches. Palms, Hollywood, rollers, beaches, sportswear-dresses people, blond-haired girls, surfers (that's maybe why it is close to the Australian stereotype...) And northern/central california, which seems more socially liberal, with wineyards, and big sequoia forests... |
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| Fredrik |
I tend to think that California sounds like a scary place. Not because of the crime, but because of the megacities and the freak lifestyles. Secretly I hope that California, like the rest of the US parts of Nueva España will turn 100 % Hispanic again. Sounds more natural, but my ideas were probably shaped in my childhood by a Carl Barks story called "Donald Duck in Old California!".
Similarly I would love New York State to turn all Dutch again, probably because of over-consumption of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Thus I am also always puzzled by the Polish and Italian heritage of New England. The Midwest is certainly my stereotypical image of America. It just sounds so neat, apple pie on the porch, Halloween (tonight, I guess, but there isn't much going on here in Norway) and the whole would you like a refill of coffe - this is America, son attitutude, which also is quite lacking in Norway, at least as far as coffee goes. 
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| Deborah |
I'm a big fan of Carl Barks. |
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| Walker |
From what I know California's culture seems to be very diverse. Maybe there's no "Californian culture" as such, but a variety of cultures. What comes to mind is of course Hollywood with its superficial culture. Plastic surgery, fame and night clubs. Rich white people. But also lots of poor people (especially Hispanics) living in run-down neighborhoods. Gang culture. What you see of California is usually LA. Kirk, whom you may or may not have encountered here, posted lots of pictures of Californian landscapes among other things on the old Langcafé, and Deborah's posted some nice pictures of SF. So I know that upper and lower-class LA is not the whole of California.  About culture, however, it's difficult to say. SF seems to have a nice laid-back mentality. California is apparently an influential state when it comes to youth culture.
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| Elaine |
Superficial?? Plastic surgery?? I have no idea what you're talking about, Walker... 
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| Porthos |
Well, I'm a native Californian from Los Angeles. There are major differences between southern California, and northern California. California is bigger than many European countries, so naturally, there will be a degree of diversity. I currently live in Central California, which is the agricultural heart of California, full of strawberry fields and vineyards, and olive groves. You might be suprised to know that California's biggest industry is agriculture. Also, within a region like southern California (L.A. country/Orange County) there is an incredible amount of diversity, largely due to socio-economic divisions and ethnic differences. The stereotype espoused by Hollywood is rather different from the real California. Metropolitan California is very, very crowded, with almost constant bumper to bumper traffic on the highways, and congested streets. There is a homicidal amount of air pollution, with so much smog at times, that you can't see the mountains which are 40 miles away! There are a lot of green plants and bushery everywhere, and palm trees everywhere. Californian cusine is a fusion of mediterranean influences (French, Italian, Spanish), western American, and Mexican. In the metropolitan areas of southern California, there is much ethnic diversity. In Los Angeles, Hispanics actually outnumber White people. There are tons of blacks in the cities, and many Asians. Los Angeles is very cosmopolitan. But, there's two sides to L.A. There is the ritzy, upper class (fashion shops, with luxury clothes, streets lined with designer stores, chic fashion, surf shops, fancy restraunts, people rollerskating on the beaches, basically the image which Hollywood projects), and then there's the dirty, crowded, inner city ghettos, which are then divided into black ghettos, and Hispanic ghettos. Gang infestation is rampant, and people are divided based on ethnicity. The Hispanic ghettos are like "Little Mexicos", where most of the signs, ads, etc. are in Spanish. Tons of Mexican restraunts, Catholic churches, panderias, carnicerias, Mexican festivals, and of course, Hispanic people. The black ghettos are just what you would think. A lot of gang warfare, mostly black people, black sub-culture, KFCs, poor, dirty, dangerous, etc. And then there's the nicer parts of California, where most of the middle class and upper class people live, most of whom are White or Asian. Metropolitan areas that are more upscale are places like Malibu, Westwood, Beverly Hills, and most of Orange County. Orange country is largely inhabited by upper-middle class White people. It's near the ocean, so there's a lot of seafood cuisine, surf shops, skaters, fancy cars, blond girls in bikinis, etc. Most people here listen to rock music, and the girls listen to pop music. There are of course, business districts with skyscrapers and business firms and all of that. And California, unlike many other places, has huge urban sprawls, and Los Angeles for instance, is a relatively small city by itself, but is connected to an almost endless suburban sprawl, with a series of smaller cities interconnected, without space in between, so it's as if it is all one big, mega city, with 20 million people. I have lived in a variety of places, so I have a well rounded perspective of life in California. I have lived in the Mexican ghetto part of Los Angeles, which roughly encompasses the area of East L.A., Whittier, Montebello, Pico Rivera, and other areas. And I have also lived in the suburban extension of Los Angeles, although they are considered seperate cities outright, which they are. These places include Long Beach, Lakewood, Cerritos, Bellflower, etc. Depending on where you go, California is a mix of Anglo American - Mexican culture. It is a pacific culture, but there is more to California than the crowded coastline of southern California and beaches, and hollywood. The interior of the state is actually a desert, and in some places, the temperate reaches highs of 125 degrees! There are valleys, snowy mountain ranges, and pretty much any type of terrain you can think of. California is incredibly naturally diverse. I currently live in Central California, in a quiet town about halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles. There is a mediterranean climate, and the landscape looks like southern France or Italy. Rolling hills of vineyards and olive groves, and other vegetation. A lot of cattle grazing on the hills, and horses, and llamas. About 60% of the population is Mexican, and most of the white middle class people live in an unincorporated part of town, which is sort of suburban in nature, although you can't really call it that, since Santa Maria is only a town of 100,000 people. I live in the middle class, Anglo extension of Santa Maria. Anyway, California is extraordinarily diverse, and it is best personified in my person, as I feel I embody all that is California. It is a mixture of two cultures, the joining of two peoples, and that is what I am. |
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| Porthos |
Oh and a few more facts you should know about California. The metropolitan areas which is where most people live, are very fast paced, and densely populated. The atmosphere is very secular, and politically liberal oriented like the Northeast. People are friendlier than they are in New York, but certainly much less so than in the south or the midwest. It's very ultra-modern, chic, and materialistic. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
San Francisco is probably less ultra-modern, chic and materialistic than LA, but definitely more so than when I was young.
Walker, if you were to base your opinion of SF on how it was presented by a 22-year-old MBA type, you might have a very different opinion. |
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| Joanne |
Deborah, when you moved from New York to California, did you find it difficult? A friend of mine moved from NY to LA last year, and she's just miserable. I advised her to give it two more years, although to be honest, I think she's too much of a New Yorker to ever get used LA. She's one of those real, real New Yorkers. You know, the ones who've never been to the Statue of Liberty and never got behind the wheel of a car until she was almost thirty.
For myself, whenever I leave this area, people always ask me (in between wheezes) "Why are you walking so fast? What's the rush??" It's disconcerting, sometimes. I don't even think I walk that fast, especially while wearing heels! 
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| Deborah |
Remember, I grew up in SF. However, in the summer of 1976, the moment I first came up out of the subway onto the streets of Manhattan, I felt that I had come home. I had never really felt that way about any place I'd lived. Eight years later, when I returned to SF, I did feel a letdown. The buildings looked so short and everyone seemed to move so slowly, and there just wasn't as much to do or see. But I came to appreciate San Francisco's advantages (such as enjoying a warm day at the beach in mid-November and getting much better housing for your money), and eventually the cultural life improved considerably. Now San Francisco definitely feels like home.
I know I developed my fast walk in NY. Interestingly, when I last visited NY, it seemed to me that people walked more slowly than they used to. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Re: Your perception of Americans
Waow ! Gaspésie, Labrador, Terre-Neuve and Acadie in New England ?! That's news to me... 
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| fab |
Oui, ça doit etre surprenant (voire choquant) pour un Quebcois, mais je pense que c'est juste une erreur de coloriage. En ce qui concerne le labrador et terre-neuve, qui sont des zones anglophones, je pense qye c'est assez logique qu'elles ne soient pas associées avec le Qubec. Il faudrait sans doute une catégorie supplémentaire : "les maritimes" (provinces Canadiennes Atlantiques). Concerning California, what is interesting is that th whole world have seen tons of images from it, thanks to Hollywood and the fact that LA is the "mediatic center of the world". Everyone has seen its huges crowded highways, its suburbs covered by palms, its beaches, etc. I remember when I was a kid in the 80's we had at that time in the 3 french TV channels so much American series from California. But, as Josh said, thoses images are generally filtred and tend to be based on the medium and upper-class L.A mainly, even if the "dark side" of the city is also mediatised, especially in police series. But it is alos a very known fact that LA has a very ethnically and socially divided territory. The gangstar rap clips we see are generally in LA landscapes. Generally, in most movies from LA, people of hispanic origins seems to not exist, despite almost being almost the majority of its population, but most people is aware of this reality. When I first came to LA in 1996, I had to compared this image I had with the reality. Actually It wasn't that different from What I had imagined. I was astonished to see how much socially divided the city was, and, as a European I felt lost in that city where there is not a real city center as in NY or in any European city. Houses, highways, malls, some isolated building offices, and some ghettoes for each "ethnic group". Actually I didn't like the city of LA at all, which seemed to me as a incontroled urban sprall, and not a city. But what I liked in southern California was the ambiance due to the sub-tropical vegetation, the sun, and the landscapes in the regions outside. I was a bit dissapointed by the fact that the water was really very cold! and the beaches were almost empty (at least when I was there, what suprised me was it was in summertime...) After having crossed the desert to Las Vegas, we returned to LA thru the central californian plain, and I was true that I sometimes had the impression to be in southern France bue to the landscape. |
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| Deborah |
When I was living in San Francisco in my 20s, I knew quite a few people of my age who hadn't learned to drive -- it just wasn't necessary. It was even less necessary in NY, and I didn't learn to drive until a year after I returned to SF, when I was 35 (and even then, it was only to prove my boyfriend wrong in his prediction that I would never get a driver's license). But I only actually started driving on a regular basis when I was in my early 50s, and I doubt that I'll ever own a car unless I move to an area that doesn't have good public transportation. And there's not much chance of that happening. |
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| Fredrik |
Deborah:
Nice to hear that you too love Carl Barks. Especially since your home, San Francsisco, probably is the inspiration for Duckburg. I guess I have always seen San Francisco as a kind of preservation-worthy white, Anglo outpost in a Cailfornia that I'd rather seen 100 % Hispanic. |
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| Porthos |
San Francisco is a fabulous town! Great cuisine, a costal, bay city ambiance, misty foggy, cold, crispy weather, while also sunny and coastal. Beautiful architecture, a wonderful Chinatown, great cuisine, a sublime baseball park, historical bridges, Japanese gardens, nice port, great cafes, chocolate houses, museums, rolling hills which make for fun driving or skateboarding, and killer shopping. San Francisco is a great city. It's rather expensive though. While it's true that it is less Hispanicized than L.A., there certainly is a hefty share of Hispanic immigrants there as well. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
Do you plan to live here eventually?
Yes...*sigh*
As I well know, since I live only a couple of blocks from Mission St., the lifeline of the main Hispanic neighborhood. |
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| Deborah |
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the location of Duckburg:
That's all news to me. I always assumed it was on the East Coast, like Riverdale, in the Archie comics:
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| Deborah |
I'm not sure what "north of Los Angeles and San Francisco" is supposed to mean, since they're so far apart. | ||||||||
| Uriel |
Aw, Porth, you're just ASKING for trouble with a topic like this!
I see the saying "A stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet" was never coined in France.... Interesting that you automatically equate being friendly with strangers as "commercial" or somehow relating to business; we don't see it in those terms at all; to us, it's just good manners.
Why not? Canadians and Americans bordering on eachother often have more in common with each other than they do with compatriots from more distant parts of their respective countries. In real life, it's usually pretty hard to tell Americans and Canadians apart -- I've had to be told on many occasions that people I knew were Canadian; I would not have known by casual conversation or acquaintance. It's not like they have a big red "C" tattooed on their foreheads, you know.
From Nine Nations in North America. An interesting book. A little dated now, I think. Of course, we Americans all knew those nine regions by other names than the ones he assigned....
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| Uriel |
The problem with that theory is that American hispanics are still very American. All those fantasies Mexicans harbor about reannexing the Southwest through the rise in the US hispanic population are ... inherently Mexican, and not really shared by their cousins living on the other side of the border at all. I lived in California for 4 years. I never found it particularly scary. Nor did I find that it had much of a culture of its own, besides tending to gravitate more toward the liberal side of politics (sorry, Porthos!) It tends to be more of an amalgam of America in general -- especially since so many Californians are transplants from the rest of the country.
Hey, now. Don't forget us Portuguese. A significant ethnic group in New England. Go out and rent yourself a copy of Mystic Pizza, pronto! And sorry, but there are very few Dutch people left in NY. Most of the people I knew when I lived there were of Italian descent. |
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| Fredrik |
True! Americans, Norwegians and Asians have understood it: If you feel slightly awkward, just smile, even if the other person is a stranger! Very interesting about the non-existent Mexican irredenta plans, Uriel! But a totally Hispanic Southwest would be even more interesting within the US! I will try to get to grips with the Romance elements of New England... Deborah: Yes, Duckburg is certainly in California. In spite of the north of LA & Frisco theory, I think there is a lot of San Francisco in Duckburg. |
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| Tiffany |
Man you guys really know a lot about Duckberg, don't you?
I live really close to San Francisico, in an area knosn as the San Francisco bay area. It never struck me as particularly white. I CAME from areas that were predominantly white. Believe me, as ashamed as I am to say this, I was shocked when I got to Northern California because every other car was driven by an Asian person. You just didn't see that it the parts that I grew up in. I was used to be one of the few. And now I'm one of the many. If you want white, go up to Napa and Marin County. I really don't think San Francisco cuts it. |
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| Porthos |
Fred,
Have you ever heard of Solvang, California? It's a Danish settlment community, mainly for tourists, with Scandanavian architecture, and shops and everything. It's about a half hour from my house. |
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| Deborah |
Berkeley?
Oh, yeah -- I forgot to address that. No, it doesn't strike me as particularly white either, especially when I'm riding the Mission bus. |
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| Elaine |
Agreed. Although I can't speak for all my Chicano brothers and sisters. |
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| Tiffany |
Santa Clara
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| Fredrik |
Yes, I have. We even discussed it on the old Langcafé. It looks tacky-nice, but a bit strange to see mini-versions of famous Copenhagen attractions in a village setting. And the mountains around Solvang are way too high for Denmark! BTW, if Solvang wanted to fit in more in the Spanish-sounding Santa Ynez Valley, it could translate its name as Vega del Sol. |
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| Porthos |
The point is too NOT fit in with the surrounding areas. It's a tourist attraction. | ||||||||
| Loic |
I do not have a fixed perception of americans: they are too disparate to be broadly classified.
Nonetheless, what is sure is that the sample pool of americans in this community are not representative of americans in general. |
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| Tiffany |
Or maybe...
Ok, let's say that perhaps we are not, but then where is the sample pool of Americans indicative of Americans in general? |
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| Deborah |
If we're too disparate to be broadly classified, then how could there be a sample pool of americans who are representative of americans in general? | ||||||||
| Walker |
I reckon I might. But if I were to visit SF I don't think I'd spend too much time in the district you work in, but in other nicer areas. I'd rent a car and drive like Steve McQueen!
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| Deborah |
If you drove like Steve McQueen, you'd be able to turn a corner and suddenly be in a completely different part of the city! |
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| Tiffany |
Point taken, but loic seemed to imply there could be one, though we weren't it. |
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| Loic |
For instance, all the americans in this forum speak more than 1 language even though I am given to understand that monolinggualism is the rule rather than the exception.
And of course, there are also no participants from a 'red' state here unless you include Uriel's New Mexico which is well, not wholly Republican in my eyes as it is the sort of state that can swing either way. Besides, the Governor Bill Richardson is a Democrat. Maybe the sample isn't large enough for us to make any conclusive inferences. |
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| Uriel |
I guess I'm the closest you'll get to that stereotypical average American, then, loic -- I only speak English. My smattering of Spanish is nowhere near conversational level.
NM switches from "blue" to "red" with each election lately -- usually by only a few percentage points -- so it can be said that we have no particular allegience. So we are technically a swing state, but our tiny population keeps us from being much of a mover and shaker, I'm afraid. Santa Clara, Tiff? I lived there for two years -- even went to Santa Clara University -- on a hispanic scholarship, no less! Still couldn't cut the tuition -- that place is expensive! Had to switch to state schools.
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| Tiffany |
Really? Geez, that's just down the road from me, literally ten minutes! I technically was from Florida. We went red even though the Miami voted totally blue We should get bonus points for Jeb Bush.
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| Uriel |
I don't know about bonus points for Jeb Bush, but you certainly get my sympathy... 
Good point -- people love to paint the entire state with one color, but there are often major cities or areas that vote one way, while others vote another. I guess at this point I can technically claim NM as my home state, since at 12 years, this is the longest I've had residence in any one state. (I was in Virginia for 5, New York for 5, and California for 4, And Georgia for 7 months, although that hardly counts. And the 8 years overseas don't count at all.) But I've moved around so much that I just never got into the habit of having a "home", and certainly not a "home state", especially since I was born overseas. |
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| Loic |
Do americans feel any sort of sentimental loyalty towards the state of birth? Or is the population so mobile that the state of birth counts for little in the overall scheme of things?
For me, personally, I have an ancestral village in China which is at least 5 generations removed away from me. Nonetheless, I was impressed upon the need to know my 'home village' and when I die one day, I expect the name of this village to be inscribed on my tombstone. |
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| Deborah |
I don't think I have a sentimental loyalty, but I really love California and San Francisco, where I grew up and where I live now. I suppose you could call my loyalty to New York City sentimental, as I haven't lived there since 1984. |
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| Uriel |
Some do, some don't. It's not uncommon, especially in the South -- remember, these are the people who spawned the bumper sticker, "American by birth -- Southern by the grace of God." Texans and New Yorkers are often known for identifying strongly with their home states. Although we're known for having a very mobile population, there are also millions of Americans who never even leave their hometown (to live, anyway), and feel awkward and out of place anywhere else. Even ones who do leave will often display their affections and identity through things like a fierce loyalty to some sports team from their old home, or bumper stickers or household memorabilia. I don't know that they'd go so far as to put it on a tombstone, but .... |
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| Deborah |
Fredrik, my brother emailed me these 2 links today: http://duckman.pettho.com/history/history.html http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/index.html The first one is the work of one Sigvald Grøsfjeld. The name makes me suspect that you may have learned about the history of Duckburg from it. (If you have already seen it, were you aware that a drake is a male duck?) |
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| Fredrik |
Thanks, Deborah!
I don´t think I´ve seen those sites before (although it looks like that Sigvald Grøsfjeld lives in my home province, possibly just a few blocks away from my aunt!) I learned my Duckiana from the cartoon magazine itself, which has been extremely popular in Norway for the last 50 years. (Only Finnland beats Norway in terms of Donald Duck popularity, according to Wikipedia!) When it was launched in Norway in 1948, people were worried that Norwegian children would be morally corrupted by its American values, but Donald soon became very accepted, not at least thanks to the brilliant translation work of school mistress Helene C. Kløvstad. Soon parents were more than willing to buy the weekly Donald magazine to help their children learn to read. And with all those wonderful Barks stories we learned a great deal of history and geography, too. As a child, the weekly Donald magazine was the highlight of the week for me and my brother. Our attic is now full of old Donald magazines and the Duck family tree still graces the wall of my childhood bedroom.
I have read elsewhere that because the magazine was so exceptionally popular in Scandinavia, stories were often drawn/written to suit Scandinavian tastes. But of course we were extra excited about the stories that actually take place in Scandinavia, like Donald Duck and the Square Eggs and Donald Duck and the Lemmings. Yes, I knew about drake as the male duck. I was a bit surprised when I learned it, though, because in Norwegian a "drake" is the exact opposite, a dragon! (Drake is "andrik" in Norwegian, "and" being a duck.) In Norwegian Donald Duck is known as just Donald Duck, but the other Scandinavian nations have translated his name: Danish: Anders And (= Andrew Duck) Swedish: Kalle Anka (= Charlie Duck) And while Scrooge McDuck is just Onkel Skrue /Skrue McDuck in Norwegian, the Danes and Swedes have come up with the more aristocratic Joakim von And / Joakim von Anka! |
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| Deborah |
Yes! I first learned about many historical events from the Duck stories, all of which stimulated my interest in learning about them when we studied them in school.
Lucky you! |
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| Uriel |
Um, like what?
Are American waterfowl such a diabolical influence? |
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| Fredrik |
Hehe, it's kind of illusive, but "American corruption" is still mentioned as a threat towards Norwegian culture from time to time. It can encompass everything from commercialisation to sexualisation. Well, honestly, as long as you add "anti-American" to any cause, you know you have the support of the intellectual community....
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Lol, it's like when people here blame anything they consider to be negative in the past 50 years on 'American influence', when it most cases, it doesn't really have very much to do with it. | ||||||||
| greg in noord-frankrijk |
True. Even the US "americanised" itself ! I mean it's a bit of a reduction to equate any change with "americanisation". As if the "world" had not "europeanised" in the first place... |
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| Loic |
What thing I dislike about the american film industry is their eagerness to minimise american errrors in historical films while glorifying every petty success which they faced. Saving Private Ryan is a case in point where the audiences get the erroneous impression that the GIs singlehandedly spearheaded the launch of D-Day.
In Windtalkers, Nicholas Cage is able to take down an entire Japanese platoon with a shotgun. Makes the Japanese soldiers look like incompetent gits. Hollywood must remember that it does not just produce films for the home market, but also for the world. The bulk of most major american productions are now derived overseas, so it makes business sense for movie producers to be actually more sensitive towards their overseas markets. |
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| Lazar |
That is true - Hollywood is notorious for its lack of historical accuracy. One of the most glaring cases is "U-571", in which the British who made the first capture of a U-boat Enigma machine were magically transformed into Americans.
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| Kirk |
I was born in Chicago but since I only lived there as a young infant I only remember the city from the few times I visited it later as a kid. Still, I do have an affection for the city which is probably stronger than it would be if I hadn't been born there. I've lived just about over half my life in California now but since my parents are California natives and I've lived here since I was 11 (thus the crucial teenage formative years) I identify strongly with California with its great geographical and cultural diversity and West Coast laid-backness combined with forward thinking try-new-things ideals. Like Deborah once said, if this whole 50-states union thing doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind being a citizen of the Republic of California (hey, we're already the California Republic on the flag :) ). Or as has been discussed on Langcafé we could always just join up with Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia to fulfill the dream of Cascadia ;) And SF may not be my city of birth but it's almost everything I could hope for in a city so I definitely hold a great attachment towards my adopted city. |
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| Uriel |
WE'RE responsible for sexualization? How about all those Swedish porno films?!!! 
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Hollywood produces entertainment, not documentaries. If you want accurate historical dramas, you need to switch over to PBS -- that's THEIR specialty. And no, Hollywood does not have some abstract responsibility to the overseas market, because for them, that's merely a secondary market, a place to mop up some more cash. The primary market, and the one that Hollywood films are overwhelmingly aimed at, is the domestic American market, and that is still their only real priority. And as long as the rest of the world goes to see the movies when they get their foreign releases, Hollywood will never give two shits about the foreign opinion mill. They already know that comedies do best in the domestic market and don't fare well elsewhere, so they just don't factor in the overseas box office on those. They can well afford to do the same with historical fiction. 'Cause they know they'll still clean up on the action flicks, the summer blockbusters, and the dramas. So if you don't like our crap, don't wallow in it!
I would argue with you there. Saving Private Ryan was deliberately told from the limited point of view of the small group of soldiers who were the main characters. The story follows them from the landing on Omaha beach (which was a solely American operation; Canada and the UK took other beaches) until the finding of Private Ryan. They would have had no contact with any other allied forces during the course of their search, so there was no reason to show other forces in action. The narrow point of view was intentional; it was supposed to show the chaos of war from an ordinary soldier's point of view, where there is no larger picture of what is going on, no handy subtitles or translators in small French villages, no real communication with the outside world. It was not meant to show the wider scope of the whole war at all. |
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| Deborah |
Did I say that? It's fine with me if I did, since I agree with the sentiment, but I thought someone else said it.
Almost? What could possibly be missing? |
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| Kirk |
Hmm--I was pretty sure you said something to that effect, but if you didn't thanks for allowing me to misquote you :)
Good question----I'll have to ponder that. How 'bout a Muni Metro line down Geary? :D I've read that the 38 bus which goes down Geary is either the busiest bus line in the nation or close to it. And I believe it cause every time I've taken the 38, whether morning, afternoon, late night/early morning it's been really packed. But that's about it ;) |
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| Deborah |
Well, yeah, that is missing. I recall there being plans for it as far back as the '80s, and then I never heard anything more about it. |
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| Kirk |
Apparently now they're going to do a hybrid system--Bus Rapid Transit. Article on plan |
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| Deborah |
Up to 8-story buildings along Mission Street? I don't want to see it. | ||||||||