| Archive for langcafe2.myfreeforum.org Come in and have your daily cup of languages! |
| Akoni |
Your religionI believe a lot of things, but not in a supreme being or persons who can do supernatural things. I like lots of things of Buddhism, like meditation. I like some things of other religions as well. In this way I've created my own path
What do you believe or what is your religion? (note: I hope this will not become a discussion about what religion is best! Nor do I want this thread to become a religion bashing contest.) |
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| Fredrik |
I believe in Christianity as set out in the Confession of Augsburg of 1530.
(Pluss the Virgin Mary and some saints, but please don't tell the Protestant inquisition!) |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
Christian Protestant (Dutch Reformed, minus the Calvinism) | ||||||||
| Loic |
What do I believe in?
I believe in God, the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth. Simple as that. At the same time, I also believe that other faiths are not necessarily inferior or superior. I do not believe that a man who is not baptised would be condemned to eternity in hell. I do not believe that entry to heaven is based solely on belief - in fact, it is good work which would get a person past the pearly white gates of St Peter. I am very sympathetic towards certain Buddhist tenets such as their emphasis on having a pure body and mind as well as respect for all forms of life. There are many schools of thought in Buddhism and I am generally more favourably disposed towards the Mahayana school (Greater Vehicle) as opposed to Theradava (Lesser Vehicle). Akoni, do you believe in the supernatural? Or do you dismiss ghostly apparitions as nothing more than a figment of a wild and untamed imagination? |
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| Akoni |
I do believe in the supernatural. Upto a certain point. For example I've seen some good examples of reincarnation that were very real, a woman who had never been to a certain town in the UK and had never seen how it looked in the past, but could describe how it was to live there and how it looked a couple of hundred years ago. The people in the town had never seen her or had never heard of her and to prove it they researched the local archives and found that she was indeed telling the right things. Ghosts and the like are fascinating, and I do believe there's more to it than meets the eye, but I always look at those kind of things with a little - in my opinion - healthy skepticism. I'm very interested in cultures and the many different religions and tend to take the things I really like and try them. I was raised as a Catholic, I was Baptised etc. but I very soon noticed I didn't like that religion at all and since then I've chosen the path I'm on now. This is what got me interested in all languages as well. As you might have read; I Freedive. Buddhist rituals are a very good way to relax and get into a mental state of controlling your body with your mind. This is absolutely a must for a Freediver. If I don't perform a routine I developed before I dive, the dive will be bad. I can now make dives of over 3 minutes without surfacing and I can hold my breath for almost 5 minutes. Other cultures have methods of relaxation as well and I'm currently searching for more information about any method of relaxation. Any hints/tips? 
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
I'm a Unitarian — basically 'Reformed' taken to the ultimate extreme.
Essentially, I believe in God. I make no distinction between the Father and the Holy Spirit, and I tend to take the view that God is either all or is at least in all. I believe that Jesus was fully human, and was one of many sons of God, but was not the Son of God, and was not uniquely God himself. I do not place any emphasis on life after death — I consider one's conduct during life to be far more important. I do not believe that it is necessary to hold any specific beliefs either; I believe that people should use their reason and experience to determine for themselves what they think is 'true'. As Unitarians, we are guided by the principles of Freedom, Reason and Tolerance, by which we attempt to affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person — regardless of ethnicity, nationality, religion, language, gender, sexual orientation, disability, or anything else like that. I like to see myself as somewhat puritanical — so for me, that's plainly decorated chapels, calm traditional hymns, periods of meditative silence, long intellectual sermons, congregationalist structure, no excessive consumption of alcohol, no gambling, no over-indulgence, no over-extravagance, no excessive display of wealth, and self-denial in the cause of greater joy (to quote a well-used Unitarian hymn). Not all Unitarians are like this though, but many are, especially in Britain (less so in the United States and Germany, I think). The Flaming Chalice — the symbol of Unitarianism: 
We light a chalice at the start of all our services, and we blow it out at the end. |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Re: Your religion
Aucune. |
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| Deborah |
None. I'm one of the very few Americans I've met who was raised entirely without religious instruction. | ||||||||
| Pauline |
I'm catholic : i don't believe everything what the catholic religion include & also I believe other things not catholic, - so probably I have a bit mixed religious views. I believe that people who lived their souls live forever but in the wind and in the nature & you can feel this I think. The priest told me, that when someone you love has died, they will live forever in your heart. I suppose it's not important exaclty where you think are they but that you sense it, but definitly only when this is good and not scary.
i knwo *for sure* that God can listen your prayers and react because of soemthing magic what happened some years ago, but never there's guarantee and it will not often occur. I often can't undertsnad his plans and find it intolerable when there's cruelty to vulnerable, innocent people so this is an enigma. But, then there are saints like Saint Francis and the person who was buried in Paris today who dedicate their live for help those people. but I think my morals, values or ethics (whatever you call it / them ) would be my own, not connected with religion. I think religion it can be misused for brainwash the poeple and control them, so it's better you will think about this things and decide your own belief. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
That's interesting, actually, because it has made me wonder how many people there are in England who have been raised entirely without any religious instruction. As you probably know, most people here do not practice any religious faith. But for some reason, it's still technically the law for all schools here to provide a daily act of worship (although parents can choose to withdraw their children from this if they wish). In reality, however, most schools (especially secondary schools) do not actually bother with this, and no-one really seems to care. But at my primary school, which was government-run and wasn't a Church school in any way, we had what was essentially a service of Christian worship every day, where we sang Christian hymns and all had to bow our heads for Christian prayers. Although the school included a wide variety of religious backgrounds, the only person who didn't participate in it was a Jehovah's Witness. I sometimes wonder what religion I was 'raised' as. My father is an atheist and my mother is not hugely religious, although she was raised as a Methodist. I was baptised in the Church of England as a baby, and we attended our local parish church for about a year when I was very young because my mother wanted me to get a place in the local Church of England school — it didn't work though. I realised I was a Unitarian about three years ago; I think my parents realised the same thing at the same time. |
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| Shouga |
I think that's common in most English primary schools. We had that, as do most primary schools in my area. |
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| Deborah |
What I meant by being raised entirely without religious instructions is that my family never went to church, and we were not told anything about any religious or supreme being. We weren't even told that there was no such thing.
Naturally, I heard about such things from people outside my family, and when I was in kindergarten, they still had us say grace before our milk-and-graham-cracker snack -- then it became against the law. |
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| Loic |
I know it sounds odd, but I never say grace in public. I think religious observance of all forms should strictly be confined to the private domains of home and church.
I went through a stage in life when I deliberately wanted to be an iconoclast. I became scornful of religions in general although I guess I was just mocking them to be revolutionary on hindsight. I'd deliberately say things to exasperate my otherwise indulgent parents such as dismissing certain rituals as nothing more than mere superstitions. I never went through a baptism of fire or any sort of miraculous experience that reversed my views. I simply mellowed down and realised that maybe, to be part of the Establishment nowadays is in a way iconoclastic. Besides, I am fully convinced that the supernatural exists. Too many unexplained incidents have happened and if religion is not just about entry to heaven or acting as a moral compass, it is at least a talisman or a protection against evil spirits. I know it sounds barmy, but there are some things in life which are too surreal for words. Even the Government does not really play with fire even if its position is officially atheist: night trainings are banned in the military because the casualty incidence rate on Thursday nights has always been unusually high. To those who have no religion, what'd you do if you were driving along a deserted road one night and you distinctly see a women dressed in flowing white robes standing on the side of the road? I once witnessed such an apparition; I blinked my eye and she later disappeared! I am hence convinced of a God whose primary duty is to keep evil at bay. |
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| Uriel |
Atheist -- born and raised. Guess that makes two of us, Deborah.
My mother's agnostic and my dad's an ex-Catholic, so between the two of them, we never, ever went to church. When I was 5, my neighbors were utterly appalled about that (this was in Virginia -- go figure) so they asked to take me to church and my parents allowed it -- they had nothing against my having the experience -- and I went for a little while. But even at that age I was like, "You really believe this junk? You can't be serious!" I don't believe in anything supernatural -- not ghosts, not premonitions, not out-of-body experiences, none of that -- nor do I have a "spiritual side", which often surprises people, who are used to the concept of not having any organized religion, but still expect everyone to be "spiritual" in some sense. I have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, personally! Guess I'm deficient in that area. 
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| Deborah |
Virginia, eh? Was it in Jerry Falwell country?
When I was 6, my father's aunt sent me a book of bible stories -- each bible story was on the left-hand page and had a corresponding modern version illustrating the principles on the right-hand page. I wasn't kept from reading it, nor did my mother comment on it (other than rolling her eyes when she saw it).
Yeah, I also seem to be lacking a spiritual side. Once in college I had the lead part in a modern dance that had a religious/spiritual theme. After the performance, the choreographer told me I must have a spiritual nature, somewhere deep inside me, to have been able to perform the part so convincingly. I was surprised, and had to inform her that I -- like John Lovitz's Master Thespian on Saturday Night Live -- had merely been Acting! 
I wouldn't feel the need to attribute unexplained phenomena to the existence of a supreme being. And looking at a beautiful sunset doesn't make me believe in one, either. |
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| André in Zuid-Afrika |
It's common in all South African schools (primary and high), but restricted to hall meeting on Monday/Friday mornings. Religious studies is a non-examination subject in all schools (two half hour periods a week devoted to it). Attendance is not compulsory. |
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| Julian |
I feel the same way. Once in awhile, the wife will drag me to church and I'll sit there just amazed how so many people have such strong convictions of faith and devotion to God, while I feel absolutely nothing. It's not that I purposely shun religion or spiritually, I just don't feel any connection to a higher power or the spiritual or supernatural realm. |
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| Uriel |
Well, aren't we just a bunch of godless Yankees! 
I have no idea what part of VA Jerry Falwell festers in, but I lived in Newport News, near Chesapeake Bay. As for apparitions and other phenomena -- the brain is good at playing tricks on you. Look at dreams. Ask any dementia patient or schizophrenic. |
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| Pauline |
This is the anomaly of the view of " normal " people : always it's this conclusions / judgements : 1. a " normal "person see a spirit, ghost, person who the other people in the room don't see --> this is the supernatural, reincarnation etc 2. a person with schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, etc see the *same* like in number 1, then they have visual halluciantion and of course it's because they're crazy. So it's evident that there's much what must become discovered and learned for understand this. I've nearly never had visual hallucination / apparition but my friend does have: sometimes he can see a grey figure. Because he's bipolar they say it's hallucination but it's absolutly *not* possible know this for sure because it can be an evil spirit. There don't exist some tests for the supernatural only conjecture. |
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| Shouga |
That's an interesting point, Pauline. People are always talking about seeing spirits and ghosts, yet when it comes to a schizophrenic person talking about this kind of thing, they're 'crazy'. Perhaps all sightings of spirits and ghosts are in fact, just hallucinations; an overactive mind playing tricks on us. | ||||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
I'm not non-religious, but I wouldn't feel the need to attribute such a vision to the supernatural either, or even give it any religious significance. For me, simply seeing a woman in flowing white robes standing by the side of the road would be pretty meaningless — it's just a person. Depending on the circumstances, I would probably assume that I had had an hallucination. |
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| Loic |
I do not want to talk too much of that lady in white, but it was not an isolated apparition. Apparently, many motorists have corroborated my sighting and that stretch has a reputation for being 'dirty'.
I think a better reason to suspect the supernatural would be unexplained events. I am not quick to suspect the supernatural every time. I usually evaluate all scenarios calmly before arriving at a conclusion and trust me, I am loath to blame it on a factor which cannot be explained by science. Just as there are many gullible and impressionable people who are quick to point the finger at ghosts and spirits and the fallen angels, there are also many who resolutely refuse to believe in their existence even when it is staring at them in the face. In such a situation, the mystery can only be resolved when they expire and go up...or down. |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
That's right. It's apparently quite common for Roman Catholics to 'see' a lady in white; the most famous example would be Bernadette Soubirous.
Sounds like a good reason to look for a rational explanation for why such apparent sightings are so common.
Yes. Visions, especially brief ones, can be dodgy, because hallucinations without any obvious religious significance are so common. For example, a few years ago, whilst my uncle was reading a book to his children, he suddenly believed that his children were throwing books at him, so he went to crouch in the corner and shouted to his wife for help. Of course, they weren't throwing books at him. He was having an hallucination, probably caused by the high-dose steroids he'd been taking for his asthma, coupled with overuse of his inhaler. |
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| Pauline |
horrible and scary 
Fortunatly i didn't had much visual hallucinations. I've very many auditory ones and one time i was very frightedn and i was hiding during some hours in a cupboard. |
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| Uriel |
And it's not possible to tell the difference between the images your brain processes and the images that it generates itself, because both are interpreted by the brain itself. They will both seem like "reality".
To me, unexplained events are simply that -- unexplained events. The fact that we do not yet know the explanation for them doesn't mean that they don't have one. I think everything is rational, even the unknown. I mean, I don't really understand how my car works when I turn the key and step on the gas, but I don't attribute it to anything supernatural. For me, the same logic applies to dark matter and the Big Bang -- just because we don't understand it yet doesn't mean it can't be understood. |
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| Deborah |
Exactly! Uriel, Jerry Falwell's headquarters are in Lynchburg, in the Blue Ridge foothills, but Newport News is near Chesapeake, VA, the home of the Christian Coalition. (BTW, nearby Virginia Beach is the home of Edgard Cyce's Association for Research & Enlightenment. Must be something in the water...) |
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| Uriel |
I know they didn't let you fish out of the James River and the Chesapeake Bay for awhile, so you may be onto something there... | ||||||||
| Fredrik |
Hmmm. Finally I can read the rest of this thread. I was reading loic's white lady post late while it was dark outside and got so scared I had to wait untill it got lighter. When alone, I'm very afraid of the dark....
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| fab |
I consider myself agnostic, I haven't any religion, and don't believe in the concept of "god" as it is explained by religions - but I don't exclude the eventuality of the existance of something like a universal conscience.
I haven't any believes in the sense of "certainnesses" (certitudes?) - But I ask myself questions about the universe in which we live: Why is it ? How ? What is time and space ? Infinity ? What is subtance ? What about quantic mechanics ? Is the reality only what we think it is ? Other dimensions ? other things exists than particules ? Iw a human only a body ? Is it therically possible to reverse time ? Is there 11 dimensions as the string thery claims ? In what they do consist ? is it possible there is a kind a universal trancendental concience ? Is the 3D universe we know only like the over part of an iceberg ? etc... I of course don't have any answer to those questions... But I don't think that science and rational thinking prevent to envisage that those ideas can corespond to any other realities we don't know. I tend to think there is a good probability that science will open new horizons one day to unknown realities as it has been in the past - some things considered as surnatural became understandable because of a wider view and wider knowledge. I recently have heard some speaches of people who have experienced NDEs, I should admit that I find it very interesting and intriguing.[/quote] |
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| Loic |
I must say that even if one is an atheist or a non Christian, the Bible can be seen as a very interesting collection of stories. I never fail to be fascinated by the living arrangements of Jacob, Leah and Rachel, not to mention their two handmaidens. For those who are unaware of these Old Testament personalities, you'd probably at least be aware of Joseph and his coat of many colours. Well, Joseph was the son of Jacob and Rachel and probably the most famous as well.
Atheists would strongly refute this, but I feel that religion provides society with a moral compass. Since the dawn of civilisation, there are certain acts and behaviour which were proscribed by religion such as murder, theft and adultery. Do you honestly think that society would be able to function like a well-oiled cog without the civilising influence of religion? Just read Lord of the Flies and ponder at the savagery which the band of boys descended into once religion was absent from their lives. Many of us are not aware of it, but our penal codes are largely based on the Judaec-Christian tradition of equity. As much as I believe in the goodness of religion, I am not madly in favour of missionary work with the intention of evangelisation. I get quite upset when evangelical protestant movements make inroads in South America and other traditionally Roman Catholic countries. Similarly, I would not be supportive of the Vatican moves to see Russia and the traditionally Orthodox lands as opportunities for conversion. I am also opposed to the sending of preachers and missionaries to China and other third world countries for the sole purpose of winning more souls for Jesus. |
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| Uriel |
Indeed, I had an anhropology professor who believed that there was a strong correllation between the development of organized religion and the rise of civilization -- he posited that the building and maintaining of early temples were the first group work efforts, that the rise of a non-productive priest class who had to be fed and sheltered by the rest of the society led, ultimately, to the rise of other divisions of labor and clases within their societies, and that religion usually did have a cohesive social effect.
I don't think the fact that religion can have a positive moral effect on societies makes it any more than a social tool; all societies have their norms and their mechanisms for keeping everyone behaving politely. It doesn't preclude other mechanisms that aren't based on the supernatural from doing the same. Most religion-based codes of conduct are just basic prudence and practicality fancied up -- don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around, be nice to the those less fortunate. That's why they're all basically the same from one religion to the next. I had to read long parts of the Bible for one of my friend's classes -- I found it dull, tedious, and incomprehensible (who ARE all these people and why do I care?) I found nothing particularly uplifting or moving in it at all. Nothing like I had been led to believe, with so many people waxing rapturous about it. 
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| Loic |
Well, if the book bores you, you could have watched the pictures. Think of the Ten Commandments or the cartoon Prince of Egypt, for example. | ||||||||
| Uriel |
What the darn thing needs are Cliffs' Notes....
Perhaps I should have started with this: 
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| Loic |
That exists? That's a revelation!
You said that large parts of the Bible are long and incomprehensible. Personally, I have always found the New Testament to be a little staid; the Old Testament is more exciting. There was lust, adultery, treachery and marital relations which would be called a menage a trois today. |
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| Uriel |
Only if all three were gettin' down 'n dirty at the same time. | ||||||||
| Benjamin [inactive] |
And gay love stories! And whole books devoted entirely to the celebration of sexual activity. I agree that parts of the Bible can be rather dull though. I've never liked the Gospel of Matthew, but that book was originally written for a 1st century Jewish readership, so it's probably not surprising. |
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| Porthos |
What gay love stories in the bible?
Please don't tell me you're referring to David and Johnothan? |
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| Benjamin [inactive] |
Lol — David and Jonathan is one such possibility, yes, as is Ruth and Naomi. Another even less likely possibility is Daniel and Ashpenaz. Admittedly, these are very controversial, but I think that the stories become more interesting when read with this possibility in mind.
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| Loic |
I was -and remain fascinated- by the marital relations which Jacob enjoyed with first Leah, then Rachel. This is followed by siring children through their two handmaidens.
Whenever I think of a girl named Rachel, I'd think of a girl with a pretty disposition and an even prettier face. All the Rachels I know in my life have been reasonably attractive and I do not expect the Biblical one to be the exception. |
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| Uriel |
What's so fascinating about having a wife and a mistress? Happens all the time. | ||||||||
| Loic |
What if your wife and your mistress are also sisters? |
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| Akoni |
I've read both the bible (old and new testament) and the koran, nice stories! But that's all I think when reading them... nice stories. | ||||||||
| Fredrik |
True! The funny thing is when a country makes it an inofficial national ideology, like France has. How do you French guys out there feel about belonging to a culture that might be said to celebrate infidelity more than fidelity? I think it's very strange, fascinating and original, considering that almost all national cultures celebrate marital fidelity as the foundation of the family and thus the nation. But. by the way, I can't remember much British glorification of the family either. In Europe it's perhaps just a Central European thing, running from Scandinavia's nuclear Ikea families through Germany's Biedermeier domestic Gemütlichkeit to Italy's mammas and pappas? |
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| Deborah |
That's probably not all that uncommon, but probably not as common as the wife and mistress being best friends. 
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| Loic |
I hope you weren't speaking from personal experience, Deborah!
However, I can envision such a scenario happening when the wife and the mistress realised that their common lover was actually two-timing them. They then decide to pool their resources together to exact revenge. |
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| Uriel |
Yeah -- it was a movie with Sharon Stone and Isabelle Adjani called Diabolique. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
And a movie called Diabolique with Simone Signoret and Véra Clouzot (1955). | ||||||||
| Uriel |
The one was a remake of the other. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
I know. The first one was the cause of my mother's fear of going to the bathroom alone at night, for quite a while -- my stepfather would complain about being awaken to be her bodyguard. When I finally saw the movie for the first time, sometime in the '80s, I couldn't understand how it could have terrified her. | ||||||||
| Uriel |
Gosh, I don't remember much about the movie. What happened in the bathroom?
(I was a little nervous about going to the bathroom at night while I was reading Stephen King's IT, I'll admit!) |
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| Deborah |
SPOILER ALERT!! The wife and mistress conspire to murder the husband, drowning him in the bathtub. Then they dump his body into a swimming pool (off-season, so it's covered with leaves or algae). After mysterious things happen that seem to indicate he's not really dead, the paranoid wife has the swimming pool drained, only to find that the body is no longer there. The hugely scary scene (supposedly) is when she's in the bathroom and his "body" rises up out of it. Since she's terrified and already has a weak heart, she dies. Maybe I didn't find the scary scene scary because my mother had already told me what happens in it, and I was watching it on TV, not in a dark theater. |
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| Uriel |
Actually, that jogs my memory -- I think the same happens in the remake (with Chazz Palmintieri doing the honors, I think, and Isabelle Adjani being the victim.) | ||||||||
| Alba |
hmm I wasnt raised with religion so I dont identify with any...I just know that my family is Muslim | ||||||||
| Loic |
So are you culturally Muslim despite otherwise being an aethiest? By the way, welcome to the forum! |
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| Deborah |
Welcome, Alba!
I used to work for someone who was, as he described himself, a Jewish agnostic married to a Catholic atheist. And he was American and his wife was French. They had their first major disagreement after their child was born, trying to decide how to celebrate the winter holidays. He would have been happy just celebrating Hanukkah, but he thought celebrating Christmas would be alright as long as they concentrated on the spiritual aspect of the holiday and left out the presents. Celebrating Hanukkah was OK with her, but since she wasn't religious, having Christmas without the festivities would have been pretty meaningless for her. I left the firm at that point, so I never found out how they resolved the situation. |
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| Alba |
[quote="Alba"]hmm I wasnt raised with religion so I dont identify with any...I just know that my family is Muslim[/quote]
thanks, yea Im culturally Muslim lol, whatever that means |
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| greg in noord-frankrijk |
Yep. But the original movie was called Les diaboliques.  
Fom a novel called Cellle qui n'était plus by Boileau-Narcejac (a pair of authors actually). |
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| Wanderin |
And I'm an Orthodox Christian, though I'm not religeous, I mean that I don't practice, for example now I shouldn't eat meat and some other things, but I do eat, but many people here use it to loose their weight, well, thank God I don't neet it yet
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| Loic |
Ok, what does auf der Reise mean? I thought you were from Germany! |
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| Uriel |
Well, it's IN German -- it means "on the journey".
Here, loic, you can cheat the way I do: http://babelfish.altavista.com/ |
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| Wanderin |
nope, I'm not German, I just like the language, no any cheating 
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| Llatai |
Non-religious, non-atheist, do my own thinger. Don't want an interpretive middle-man. I was raised Episcopalian but not stringently so. At 13 I decided Christianity was not for me. I'm just not interested in joining a religious organization, though the subject of religion and spirituality interests me greatly. | ||||||||
| Loic |
So you're classically agnostic then. |
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| Llatai |
Not at all. An agnostic doubts the existence of God or the possibility of knowing whether there is a God or not. I'm doubting the veracity of most religious credos I'm familiar with and the wisdom of trusting any of them as having more inherent authenticity than my own subjectivity with regard to said knowingness. If your comment is made under the assumption that it is only an established religious authority who can authenticate any idea or experience about God at all, then yes I'm agnostic. So much for labels. To the extent that God is a word applied to an extrapolated teleology no one yet can independently verify, then I uphold my prerogative to apply that term just as liberally as the rest of humanity. To me, one's subjective experience is the more valid enterprise, and to my mind at least, its cultivation provides the most utility in addressing existential questions or to quell the Sturm und Drang of existence. Isn't that why God is contemplated at all? Whether the label "God" is accurately applied to experience or not is a linguistic and interpretive concern, not an empirical one. |
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| Loic |
No. No one ought to have a monopoly on any resource. But established religious organisations exist because they possess the accumulative wisdom that is helpful in unlocking the secrets of divinity, Creation and other issues that throw humanity into periods of intense self-doubt.
That was an illuminating explanation of your religious philosophy. Unfortunately, I have not come any closer to understanding your position. Do you then, reasonably believe in the existence of a higher being that you might subjectively call God or by any other term that catches your fancy? |
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| Llatai |
"But established religious organisations exist because they possess the accumulative wisdom that is helpful in unlocking the secrets of divinity, Creation and other issues that throw humanity into periods of intense self-doubt."
If you say so. Do you then, reasonably believe in the existence of a higher being that you might subjectively call God or by any other term that catches your fancy?[/quote] Yes - but not reasonably, empirically |
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| Liz |
Well, my in terms of relegion ridiculously versatile family (you can find all relligions of the Judeo-Christian sort) has evolved into an an masse Roman Catholic one.
Apart from the fact that I'm officially a Roman Catholic, I'm quintessentially agnostic, having been raised by an ex-Catholic agnostic father and an atheist mother. However, my mum thinks "atheist" is too harsh a word to use to describe her (lack of) faith (in God) as the word "atheist" has some negative connotations, implying that the person in question is a fierce opponent of any kind of religious belief, which she definitely isn't. I see it that way, too. However, I haven't really met people who think "atheist" has negative connotations as described above but it simply means that the person doesn't belive in God. What do you think? |
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| Liz |
Correction:
<<but it simply means that the person doesn't belive in God.>> but it simply means to them that... |
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| Deborah |
I'm an atheist and to me, it simply means that I don't believe in God. My mother was an agnostic, and to her, that meant that she didn't really know.
(When I was younger, I used to say I wasn't either of the two -- at that time, I figured being an atheist meant that you had to be actively going about denying the existence of God, and I rarely even thought about the subject.) |
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| Liz |
You might be right, Deborah.
I consider myself more of an agnostic than an atheist because, in my opinion, it cannot be proven whether God exists or not. However, I'm inclined to think that he doesn't, but I'm not that convinced (for want of a better word) as others claim to be. And I don't think I need to. Now, am I an atheist or an agnostic in fact? I've got a little mixed up.
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| Liz |
Sometimes I tend to think that the term "agnostic" is merely a euphemism to denote those who can't really decide what to believe in. Even if it's true, I don't think it's a shame. | ||||||||
| Deborah |
Oh, I'm absolutely convinced there is no God -- unless you consider the nature of God to be simply a belief, in which, case I can freely admit that there is a God -- for those who believe. (I'm kidding, but I've known people to really stretch to come up with a definition of God in order to prove that I do, after all, believe in God.) | ||||||||
| Liz |
No, absolutely not. It wasn't my intention as I'm not a sophist by nature.
I've also me those people who wanted to prove that I'm a "latent Catholic"(sic!) LOL 
I don't think they would be glad if I wanted them to admit that they are latent atheists.
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| Deborah |
Wow, I never thought of doing that -- it would be an interesting exercise to see how contrived a definition of atheist I'd have to create. |
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| Pauline |
Hi
my relgion's catholic. I'm writting here because I'm wondring abou time /relgion. This is because since some days I've some prpblmes what are annying me and prevent (with succes for them) I can't concentrate. i thought before it' s better don't write during such times on the fourmbut now I've disocvered that this will force my thoughts to fcus not on themself or to things what are causing this annoyance. this is much better and ther are peopl who can do ths although it's vry diffcult and then time would get to adiffrent velocity. I hate tiem, it's stessful and i wish time would soemtimes stop. not completely stop, of course, but tmporary, or if it would become flxible as it's a quite pressurizing thng (feeling) that it does continue. so anywya this post is a quetsion abut religion and time, as i need to knwo if there''s a religion in whch there's some controlling of time, even sme authority. What's a quite confsing thing as well is the wind, especially in teh trees because ths put time to the inversd diretcion, adn this is absoluty overwhemling because it puts those thoughts (memorys) in your mind of a cerain time, even day, or moment. this are thoughts of sometimes vry longtime ago btu the wind in the rtees contains the souls of those peope and especially those memories so you cry.Wind in the trees has ths special power to put yur thoughts to this thing, adn i'm wondering if ther's a relgion who knwo abut this, or maybe i'm bit lost,as time make me to get muddle up bcause of the parallel continuation btu slowing, reversing and generally atlerations during the mathematical divided tims for exple hours, days, mnths. hours aren't a problme, I think, it's in particluar months and yeasr what i cna't comprehend but until now I ddnt' hear of a religion what hsa a phlosohy about ths so please tell me if it exist because i must disocver it.Thanks. |
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| Deborah |
Pauline, I've never heard of a religion that deals with controlling time, but meditation, as I'm sure you know, is supposed to help with that feeling of time getting out of control. While I was searching for the answer to your question, I came across this interesting article:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925371.700 It might be hard to wade through if you're having trouble concentrating (expecially since it's not in your native language); on the other hand, it might help you concentrate. |
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| Pauline |
hi Deborah,
i didn't knwo that mditation is supposd to help with it, because it's nto allowed for me to do it (i love yoga but it's not with medtation). It was a very inertesitng articl, and I would like to leanr more how the peol go in the zonewher teh time is more slwoly. the paragrpah about doapmine was interesting; two medications i take are dopmine (and serotonin)regulatrs. so,I suppose that it wil be teh dopamine, what I ddn't know ;i thought it was because of anxieyt /fear after some days whn my brain is so noisy and i don't get some quiet frm it and much frustation to correctly interprt all the things.i'm absoluty not gone mad or somerhing like this, but it's difficlut to concettrate when you constantly hear everyhting what the other peopl don't ntice.this week i will be at home so i wil serach some infos about those methods to experince slowly time. it would be much nicer.Thank ou very much for your reply and the article. of cours i knwo that time doesn't be quick orslow, but it's our idnividual interpretation of it makieng this abstract concetp concrete, and putting the corrct amount of time to teh minutes, hrous, days etc.. or even more confusimg is the passage of time; when the weather's widny I've mostly this problem as wind in the trees has thsi special message to em from the souls of cerain people, and today it was windy, btu this was the other feeling -not too fast but inversd.I'm not sure if this is logic or bit weird. I wonder who invented minutes, huors, months, years and put the time into those, and if the time was constantly equally divded in this groups, as until this has ocurred time was free to go quickly or slwoy. as the magnetic force, maybe atone point, time wil reverse. this is a frightening perpective what i wish I didn't consider.Okay, it's evident that ths post is too long.
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| Loic |
I wish I could be helpful, but I am not very well-versed in religious dogma.
But since you are a Catholic, why don't you talk to your priest? However, I doubt if he is able to answer any of your probing questions as they seem a bit too esoteric to me. |
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| Pauline |
hi Loic,
thank youfro yoru suggestion. Today i'm feeling little bit lesser anxious about thsi things. Maybe i will ask the priest; sometims i've talked with him before and he was helfpul. as he's told before, not all (in fatc many) thinsg havn't an answer, or it's not posible to definitly know if it's the case or nto so it wil remain a mystery for sometime, possibly eternally. |
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| Uriel |
I've always been an atheist, and as for Deborah, to me it's simply the nonbelief in a god or higher power, nothing else. It's neither good nor bad. | ||||||||
| KSa |
I often think about time but the more I think the more confused I get. I wonder sometimes if we can control time in a way, I mean to slow it down, or speed it up, or maybe even stop it? From what I know from physics classes, time IS flexible, I mean it can behave quite strangely in the Universe but I'm unable to understand it thoroughly. | ||||||||
| Uriel |
Time is dependent on speed, if I remember correctly. You have to be going pretty fast for time to be affected. But it has been measurable in space flight -- returning astronouts found their watches off by a minute or two. So you can forget about having any effect on time in real life. | ||||||||
| Pauline |
Sorry for my dyslexic-looking schizo posts last week.
Yes, for sure it's comlicated, but I suppose that you can divide it to two things (very basically) time and how every person interpret/feel time. So, it seems more the interpretation you (individual) make of time what can have effect on it, for exmple the person in the article who can go in the slow zone during sport. I have experienced time to go quickly, slowly etc so I know that it can definitly change - at least the individual feeling, but I didn't have some conscious influence, what is what I'd like to discover and there are people capable. I have sometimes quite much difficulty to correctly interpret time, and I'm muddle up with all the things in the past, as I can't imagine the contnuation : it feel like many events isolated and not placable, also without chronology. This is maybe with which i have this problem - continuation i.e. chronology. Anyway, it's why I was wondering if there is a religion who has some thoughts, influences of this, but as KSa wrote, it's physics, so possibly it would be better to improve my insigth of physics. |
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| KSa |
Pauline, youe have raised very interesting subject for discussion and I think we will continue to discuss it more in details. Tonight I'm going to Italy for one week but after I've returned I'll try to tell you something about my perception of time. |
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| Pauline |
it will be very inetresting. Have a good week in Italy. |
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