 |
langcafe2.myfreeforum.org
Come in and have your daily cup of languages!
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Liz
Langcaffeine Addict
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Hongarije
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Pauline:
I don't think that anyone stabbed you in the back *deliberately* on this forum. However, it's your decision - I can't force you to stay.
So long! 
PS: I hope we can keep contact via e-mail. 
_________________
Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
André in Zuid-Afrika
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1846
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pauline
Since you've joined this forum, I have bent over backwards to accommodate you. Numerous PM conversations took place between us when you were upset about something or had a fight with somenone. On several occasions you have made promises to me regarding your behaviour, only to break those promises within a day.
During your repeated fights with Sander, you promised me several times to have no more fights with him. Despite this, and despite several warnings, you continued your fights with him. I fionally banned you for a week when, less than an hour after you promised me once again that you will have no more fights with him, you launched a totally unprovoked attack on him.
When I then banned you for a week, you wasted no time to get over to Unilang to tell everybody there how bad this forum is, and what a terrible person I was.
Despite this, I lifted your ban temporarily to allow you to read your PM's, at your request. I permanently lifted the ban two days before it was supposed to be lifted, because I felt sorry for you.
When the issue of the adult forum came up, you didn't discuss with me (despite my repeated requests in the past to discuss things which bother you with me), but rather chose to do an attack on my character, effectively calling me dishonest, on a thread which you knew I don't visit (and you knew that, because we discussed it in a conversation a few months ago, when I told you that I don't speak German, even though I can read a bit of it).
When I asked you to not make accusations like that oon aa thread where I'm likely not to see it, but rather do it to my face, you denied calling me dishonest. When I quoted your exact words, you claimed to not have thought of me when you wrote it. This is rubbish. If you speak about dishonesty in the way the forum is run, you are calling me dishonest, since I'm the admin. You apoligised, and then promptly made similar accusations against me on other threads.
In your latest post here, you claim that I have accused you of things you didn't do (ie. call me dishonest) - and then you go right ahead and accuse me of being dishonest again.
And speaking of dishonesty. You created a new profile (Palomino), and then made several posts under that name, pretending to be someone else. You also lied about "Palomino's" age, clearly in order to get into the adult forum.
I recently made you a moderator, hoping that that will encourage you to act more responsibly. Clearly that was a mistake.
As for the adult forum. I allowed Porthos in despite his age, because I believed he was mature enough to handle it (and he has since proven on that forum that he can handle it). In the same way, I would not have granted access to someone over the age of 18 who has shown to be too immature to handle it. Officially the rule is 18+, but I see nothing wrong in using discretion to make exceptions (both ways). Yes, perhaps that's the wrong way of doing it. But dishonest? No.
The bottomline is, over the past few months, I've tried my best to accommodate you, often at the expense of other members. I have now run out of patience.
You are no longer welcome here. You are now officially banned from this forum permanently.
_________________
Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Liz
Langcaffeine Addict
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Hongarije
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pauline, with all due respect, Andre is right. 
_________________
Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greg in noord-frankrijk
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 858
Location: Parijs in Noord-Frankrijk
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pauline wrote: | | I'm very sad to must leave this forum, and I don't leave it happy. I've learned for sure, that if you like a person and think he/ she are a friend, when they turn against you, it's extremely hurtful. Next time, I won't be so trustful and naive. |
Tschüß Pauline and farewell. Tu devrais lire et relire les explications d'André, qui est une personne digne de confiance : il a beaucoup œuvré pour que vive ce site ainsi que les précédents d'où est issue une grande partie de la communauté des habitués. Je suis certain qu'il a pris cette pénible décision en son âme et conscience. Il te revient d'en comprendre les tenants et les aboutissants afin d'en retirer un enseignement pour l'avenir. Tu as beaucoup de qualités, Pauline ; ta capacité à utiliser plusieurs langues et à progresser de façon fulgurante n'est pas la moindre. Ce sont des atouts inestimables qui forcent l'admiration. La conclusion de ton histoire avec Langcafé est également un virage intéressant pour peu que tu saches réinvestir tes puissantes facultés sur une nouvelle trajectoire — constructive. Tu as toutes les bases nécessaires pour approfondir tes connaissances linguistiques et rebondir vers des domaines plus théoriques, plus transversaux, plus pointus. En t'obligeant à réorienter ton investissement personnel d'une façon qu'il t'appartient à présent de déterminer seule, André t'a rendu un fier service, en cohérence avec son approche qui consiste à favoriser la prise de responsabilité : tu viens de quitter le port pour la haute mer. C'est une étape nécessaire et salutaire que nous traversons tous sous une forme ou une autre. Elle permet d'apprendre à tourner la page pour en écrire une nouvelle. Alors ne sois pas trop triste à cause de ce départ, car ce qui compte vraiment c'est le cap que tu te fixes désormais. Pense à cette phrase de Saint-Ex : « La contrainte te délivre et t'apporte la seule liberté qui compte. »
greg
Last edited by greg in noord-frankrijk on Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm Pauline's brother. I helped her to make the lists for the translation game, and because she's having to stay in a place for a month where she can't surf the internet I told her I'll inform her of the progress of the translation game. I am on vacation and it's raining so I read this forum.
I don't like how you've written to my sister. You accuse her of things, but I think you're not correct to say them. Pauline's a cute girl, she can be tiring and frustrating but I am her big brother and I can't leave your comments unreplied so the readers would not know another opinion.
You've not written a fair story of what happened. In her mind she's very honest. Her memory isn't always accurate and her mind does play tricks on her. But she's not like you imply. You say about 'numerous PM conversations' there was some PMs, but not numerous. She didn't complain to you about people, except Sander. Sander was rude and provocative to her: you make this to appear the inverse. She didn't ask to have the ban lifted, but only to be able to receive the PM.
| Quote: | | I fionally banned you for a week when, less than an hour after you promised me once again that you will have no more fights with him, you launched a totally unprovoked attack on him. |
I'd like to read this attack. Please give me the link.
| Quote: | | When I then banned you for a week, you wasted no time to get over to Unilang to tell everybody there how bad this forum is, and what a terrible person I was. |
Then she wrote there that you are very nice and everything is in order here. André, you are not being completely honest.
| Quote: | | When the issue of the adult forum came up, you didn't discuss with me (despite my repeated requests in the past to discuss things which bother you with me), but rather chose to do an attack on my character, effectively calling me dishonest, on a thread which you knew I don't visit (and you knew that, because we discussed it in a conversation a few months ago, when I told you that I don't speak German, even though I can read a bit of it). |
One time or two you told her she can tell you if something bother her, but she probably forgot or was too nervous to remember. She doesn't see things as we see them, so she can write it's dishonest, but this can be a genuine comment about a situation without more implications to you or other admin.
I know my sister well, we 're closer than the others and I expect she thought that the dishonesty was thoughts planted into the internet system to exclude her, or some other view which most people wouldn't conclude.
About the German: she doesn't use language to exclude, and she doesn't consider excluding people, and cries when she knows about a person not included.
| Quote: | | In your latest post here, you claim that I have accused you of things you didn't do (ie. call me dishonest) - and then you go right ahead and accuse me of being dishonest again. |
André, it's you who are dishonest :
| André wrote: | | The forum will NOT, I repeat, NOT, be opened to underaged people. It is common for sex related forums to allow only people over 18 years, and there are good reasons for that (including legal reasons). This is not open for discussion. |
Then :
| André wrote: | | As for the adult forum. I allowed Porthos in despite his age, because I believed he was mature enough to handle it (and he has since proven on that forum that he can handle it). ....Officially the rule is 18+, but I see nothing wrong in using discretion to make exceptions (both ways). Yes, perhaps that's the wrong way of doing it. But dishonest? No. |
I find you dishonest. I'm also very angry that you treat my little sister so badly and incorrectly.
| Quote: | | You created a new profile (Palomino), and then made several posts under that name, pretending to be someone else. You also lied about "Palomino's" age, clearly in order to get into the adult forum. |
Yes, she created it, as the horse who lives in the garden of our neighbours. It was innocent, except I agree it was for viewing the adult forum and so bit dishonest. Can you blame her? Every visitor here had access except she, and she has terrible paranoia.
| Quote: | | I recently made you a moderator, hoping that that will encourage you to act more responsibly. Clearly that was a mistake. |
How can you say this ? As moderator she behaved very well ; she didn't moderate anything ! She was very careful to respect all people's posts and didn't use this moderator power anytime.
I'm wondering why you find it your responsibility to encourage her to act more responsibly ? Do you think she hasn't a family, psychiatrists, and other people who know her much better who do such things ? Only 3 years ago, we thought we lost Pauline forever.
| Quote: | | The bottomline is, over the past few months, I've tried my best to accommodate you, often at the expense of other members. I have now run out of patience. |
At the expense of Sander ? Read his posts to Pauline. Our family know all what was written, she hasn't the 'freedom' it might seems. How fortunate we've more patience than you. Do you forget how much she contributed at this forum ? Many threads, found new members ...? You make it seem like you tolerated such many things but there was not good things from her.
| Quote: | | You are no longer welcome here. You are now officially banned from this forum permanently. |
Pauline's extremely sensitive, this will hurt her very much. It's what you want ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greg in noord-frankrijk
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 858
Location: Parijs in Noord-Frankrijk
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marc,
Attention à ne pas porter d'accusation péremptoire, surtout dans un espace privé où nul n'a sollicité ton avis.
Tes sentiments vis-à-vis de Pauline t'honorent, et je les respecte, mais tu ne devrais en nulle manière t'en prévaloir pour tenter d'instruire un procès uniquement à charge, basé sur des faits qui ne sauraient nous être opposables car connus de toi seul.
La décision d'André s'impose à tous, sans exception : il est le seul et légitime propriétaire de cet espace dont il a la charge. Cette décision motivée est sans recours et n'appelle aucun développement ultérieur.
Je te saurai gré de transmettre à Pauline le message que j'ai rédigé plus haut à son intention et de prendre acte qu'il s'agit là d'un solde de tout compte. C'est en effet tout le sens de la décision qui a été prise.
Merci. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
André in Zuid-Afrika
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1846
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marc aka Pauline
| Marc wrote: |
I don't like how you've written to my sister. You accuse her of things, but I think you're not correct to say them. Pauline's a cute girl, she can be tiring and frustrating but I am her big brother and I can't leave your comments unreplied so the readers would not know another opinion.
You've not written a fair story of what happened. In her mind she's very honest. Her memory isn't always accurate and her mind does play tricks on her. But she's not like you imply. You say about 'numerous PM conversations' there was some PMs, but not numerous. She didn't complain to you about people, except Sander. Sander was rude and provocative to her: you make this to appear the inverse. She didn't ask to have the ban lifted, but only to be able to receive the PM. |
I find it interesting that you know so many details about Pauline's activities here. I therefor do not believe you that you are "Pauline's brother", you are indeed Pauline. A few months ago your "sister, Spohie" also turned up here on your behalf... Yes, you only complained to me about Sander, but I specifically asked you to let me know if anyone writes something that upsets you, so that I can handle it. You chose to get into fights with people. You were rude to Sander many times, and indeed swore at him at least once (pretending afterwards that you didn't realise it was a swearword. As for numerous PM's, there were, and you know it.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I fionally banned you for a week when, less than an hour after you promised me once again that you will have no more fights with him, you launched a totally unprovoked attack on him. |
|
I'd like to read this attack. Please give me the link.[/quote][/quote]
Gladly. http://langcafe2.myfreeforum.org/...hp&highlight=banned+week#5800
| Quote: | | Quote: | | When I then banned you for a week, you wasted no time to get over to Unilang to tell everybody there how bad this forum is, and what a terrible person I was. |
Then she wrote there that you are very nice and everything is in order here. André, you are not being completely honest. |
Yes, after I lifted the ban. And AFTER she told everybody what a terrible person I am. Speaking of honesty
| Quote: | | Quote: | | When the issue of the adult forum came up, you didn't discuss with me (despite my repeated requests in the past to discuss things which bother you with me), but rather chose to do an attack on my character, effectively calling me dishonest, on a thread which you knew I don't visit (and you knew that, because we discussed it in a conversation a few months ago, when I told you that I don't speak German, even though I can read a bit of it). |
One time or two you told her she can tell you if something bother her, but she probably forgot or was too nervous to remember. She doesn't see things as we see them, so she can write it's dishonest, but this can be a genuine comment about a situation without more implications to you or other admin.
I know my sister well, we 're closer than the others and I expect she thought that the dishonesty was thoughts planted into the internet system to exclude her, or some other view which most people wouldn't conclude.
About the German: she doesn't use language to exclude, and she doesn't consider excluding people, and cries when she knows about a person not included. |
This has been your excuse every time. I find it strange that you can control your illness sufficiently to discuss it rationally when it suits you, but cannot control it when you don't want to.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | In your latest post here, you claim that I have accused you of things you didn't do (ie. call me dishonest) - and then you go right ahead and accuse me of being dishonest again. |
André, it's you who are dishonest :
| André wrote: | | The forum will NOT, I repeat, NOT, be opened to underaged people. It is common for sex related forums to allow only people over 18 years, and there are good reasons for that (including legal reasons). This is not open for discussion. |
Then :
| André wrote: | | As for the adult forum. I allowed Porthos in despite his age, because I believed he was mature enough to handle it (and he has since proven on that forum that he can handle it). ....Officially the rule is 18+, but I see nothing wrong in using discretion to make exceptions (both ways). Yes, perhaps that's the wrong way of doing it. But dishonest? No. |
I find you dishonest. I'm also very angry that you treat my little sister so badly and incorrectly. |
I already admitted that I was probably wrong about letting Porthos in. But I was not dishonest about it. If you really are Pauline's brother, which I don't believe, how honest was it when she created a new profile and pretended to be someone else?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | You created a new profile (Palomino), and then made several posts under that name, pretending to be someone else. You also lied about "Palomino's" age, clearly in order to get into the adult forum. |
Yes, she created it, as the horse who lives in the garden of our neighbours. It was innocent, except I agree it was for viewing the adult forum and so bit dishonest. Can you blame her? Every visitor here had access except she, and she has terrible paranoia. |
Ah, so you admit it was dishonest. And as I already explained to you before, everybody did NOT have access. So yes, I can blame you for being dishonest about that.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I recently made you a moderator, hoping that that will encourage you to act more responsibly. Clearly that was a mistake. |
How can you say this ? As moderator she behaved very well ; she didn't moderate anything ! She was very careful to respect all people's posts and didn't use this moderator power anytime. |
Behaved well? By getting into fights? Many members here are fed up with you.
| Quote: | | I'm wondering why you find it your responsibility to encourage her to act more responsibly ? Do you think she hasn't a family, psychiatrists, and other people who know her much better who do such things ? Only 3 years ago, we thought we lost Pauline forever. |
This forum is my responsibility. If you don't act responsibily here, it is my responsibility to encourage you to do so.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The bottomline is, over the past few months, I've tried my best to accommodate you, often at the expense of other members. I have now run out of patience. |
At the expense of Sander ? Read his posts to Pauline. Our family know all what was written, she hasn't the 'freedom' it might seems. How fortunate we've more patience than you. Do you forget how much she contributed at this forum ? Many threads, found new members ...? You make it seem like you tolerated such many things but there was not good things from her. |
Yes, you contributed a lot to the forum. You also created a lot of trouble. Read your posts to Sander.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | You are no longer welcome here. You are now officially banned from this forum permanently. |
Pauline's extremely sensitive, this will hurt her very much. It's what you want ? |
[/quote]
You've hurt several people here. You brought this over yourself. Do you think the things you wrote about me on Unilang didn't hurt? The things you recently wrote about me? You've played on my feelings to get your way once too often. The ban is final, and I don't care how many members of your family you pretend to be.
IF YOU ARE REALLY MARC...
If you really do care about Pauline as you claim, you would not have allowed her to participate in any forum such as this one. People are liable to get upset over things written here and on other forums. You claim that your family knows all that was written. Why did you then allow her to continue, knowing that it upsets her? Why didn't you give her guidance on how to handle issues? Why did you allow her to attack people (for example during her fight with Uriel? Why didn't you explain things to her when she misunderstood (which often happened)?
If you are really Marc, you will act in her best interests by preventing her from joining any forum on the internet. If you are really Marc, you have neglected your duties in a serious way.
_________________
Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| André in Zuid-Afrika wrote: | | I find it interesting that you know so many details about Pauline's activities here. I therefor do not believe you that you are "Pauline's brother", you are indeed Pauline. A few months ago your "sister, Spohie" also turned up here on your behalf... |
Yes, Sophie is another of my sisters. I know many details because I know her log-in and I love my sister. I don't read all her messages, but my Mum and Sophie mostly read them. We are happy that she writes because for so long she was in another world and didn't communicate in a comprehensible way. Her psychiatrist knows and informed us it's better to allow her to write on language forums, for reasons he explained to us. Personally I don't like forums.
| Quote: | | Yes, you only complained to me about Sander, but I specifically asked you to let me know if anyone writes something that upsets you, so that I can handle it. You chose to get into fights with people. You were rude to Sander many times, and indeed swore at him at least once (pretending afterwards that you didn't realise it was a swearword. As for numerous PM's, there were, and you know it. |
I am not Pauline. I found Sander very provocative and rude, in fact worse than my sister who can be very argumentative.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | I fionally banned you for a week when, less than an hour after you promised me once again that you will have no more fights with him, you launched a totally unprovoked attack on him. |
I'd like to read this attack. Please give me the link. |
Gladly. http://langcafe2.myfreeforum.org/...hp&highlight=banned+week#5800 |
I didn't find Pauline's unprovoked attack.
| Quote: | | This has been your excuse every time. I find it strange that you can control your illness sufficiently to discuss it rationally when it suits you, but cannot control it when you don't want to. |
It's a problem I have with Pauline too. I don't think it's that she can control her illness but that she's ill one day or well.
| Quote: | | I already admitted that I was probably wrong about letting Porthos in. But I was not dishonest about it. If you really are Pauline's brother, which I don't believe, how honest was it when she created a new profile and pretended to be someone else? |
You weren't dishonest when you letted him in, but when you wrote it was only for 18+. No, the Palomino membership was not honest.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | I recently made you a moderator, hoping that that will encourage you to act more responsibly. Clearly that was a mistake. |
How can you say this ? As moderator she behaved very well ; she didn't moderate anything ! She was very careful to respect all people's posts and didn't use this moderator power anytime. |
Behaved well? By getting into fights? Many members here are fed up with you. |
Fed up with Pauline, do you mean ?
| Quote: | | You've hurt several people here. You brought this over yourself. Do you think the things you wrote about me on Unilang didn't hurt? The things you recently wrote about me? You've played on my feelings to get your way once too often. The ban is final, and I don't care how many members of your family you pretend to be. |
I don't think that she played on your feelings; she thought that you were a very nice person. I am not against her not visiting; I don't know why she wanted to waste her time here, but it wasn't my decision.
| Quote: | IF YOU ARE REALLY MARC...
If you really do care about Pauline as you claim, you would not have allowed her to participate in any forum such as this one. People are liable to get upset over things written here and on other forums. You claim that your family knows all that was written. Why did you then allow her to continue, knowing that it upsets her? Why didn't you give her guidance on how to handle issues? Why did you allow her to attack people (for example during her fight with Uriel? Why didn't you explain things to her when she misunderstood (which often happened)?
If you are really Marc, you will act in her best interests by preventing her from joining any forum on the internet. If you are really Marc, you have neglected your duties in a serious way. |
I haven't the power to prevent Pauline to visit this forum or any other ones. I think that guidance was given to her several times, but not by me. She does misunderstand, but doesn't accept it. It's very annoying, but she's my little sister and although she's so argumentative and stubborn, she's kind, cute and I want her to get well. I can't know how to do this except be a loyal brother. She's attacked people, if you say she has (I havn't read it) but I'm relieved that she communicates. I don't know about Uriel, only Sander, and I'm only her brother, I'm not her doctor or our parents. This is a big mess and I'm signing out to enjoy my vacation with friends. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benjamin [inactive]
Connoisseur
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1687
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Je ne crois pas que Marc soit Pauline parce qu'il écrit mieux l'anglais que Pauline ; son style est différent.
Marc, s'il te plaît : dis à Pauline que je suis très malheureux qu'elle ne peut plus participer à ce forum et que, si cela avait été mon choix, je ne l'aurais pas interdit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deborah
Connoisseur
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is a sad business, and I feel I had something to do with it because, way back when some threads started getting into areas that many parents (in the US, at least) would not like their kids getting into, I was worried about possible negative ramifications (such as someone's parents being upset and getting the forum shut down), and wrote as much to Andre. He had been feeling the same way, and so created the adult forum, to be viewable only by those who were at least 18 years old (or who, at least, professed to be at least 18 years old, because how can you really know?). I think keeping its existence hidden from underage people was an excellent idea. I think adhering to the rules would have been an even better idea. I believe Elaine's moving some posts to the adult forum was the right thing to do, but, unfortunately, announcing her intention (I assume so that it wouldn't seem like overzealous censorship) revealed the existence of the forum to everyone. I can't blame Elaine -- after it happened, I tried to think of how it could have been avoided and eventually came up with an idea, but it didn't occur to me until a couple of days later.
As Marc (who I believe really exists) said, Pauline has a lot of paranoia; it's part of her illness. I'm sure that's why she thinks she's been singled out. (By the way, Marc, she wasn't the only one who was excluded.) And I have to say, Andre, that even though you eventually admitted that you inadvisedly let Porthos join because you thought he could handle it, you first adamantly declared that there were no exceptions to the 18 and over rule. I don't see how you can claim that you were being entirely honest, and I don't think Pauline could have been assured of your good intentions by it.
And, by the way, did you tell the rest of us that you were making an exception in Porthos's case? Or were we supposed to be keeping track of people's birthdays? I trusted that you were doing that. When he joined, I assumed that, like Benjamin, he'd been granted admission when he turned 18. As I stated before, my concerns were legal ones. No matter how much you feel Porthos is able to handle it, he's still under 18. Frankly, I think any of the under-18 group on this forum could have "handled" it. But I definitely feel deceived. It's your forum to handle how you choose, and if you feel hurt by Pauline and feel she's someone you don't want to have her on your forum, you have every right to exclude her. But I don't think you're being honest with yourself about your honesty.
I also object to your stating that "many members" of the forum are "fed up" with her. That's how bad reporters report things. Can you be specific and enumerate them and what they've said to you on the subject?
I'm sorry she won't be here anymore; on the other hand, I'm glad she's in a place where she can't read what you wrote. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benjamin [inactive]
Connoisseur
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1687
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not for the first time, Deborah has expressed my thoughts perfectly (and much better than I could have done). Deborah's objections to how this issue has been handled essentially constitute the reasons for why I have expressed my desire to resign from both being an administrator and a moderator.
I'm very sad that it's had to come to this, but I have to accept that there's nothing I can do about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Porthos
Moderator
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 1780
Location: Californië, Verenigde Staten
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Benjamin wrote: | Not for the first time, Deborah has expressed my thoughts perfectly (and much better than I could have done). Deborah's objections to how this issue has been handled essentially constitute the reasons for why I have expressed my desire to resign from both being an administrator and a moderator.
I'm very sad that it's had to come to this, but I have to accept that there's nothing I can do about it. |
Why do feel it necessary that you "resign from your position"? It's not as if you were involved in the decision making process or are involved in enforcing it. Resigning from your position won't make any difference. It's as if you're just protesting Andre's decision by making a political statement. Boycotting being a moderator won't help the situation.
_________________
Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
André in Zuid-Afrika
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1846
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Benjamin wrote: | Not for the first time, Deborah has expressed my thoughts perfectly (and much better than I could have done). Deborah's objections to how this issue has been handled essentially constitute the reasons for why I have expressed my desire to resign from both being an administrator and a moderator.
I'm very sad that it's had to come to this, but I have to accept that there's nothing I can do about it. |
Benjamin, your critisism now is hypocritical, to say the very least. You know why.
_________________
Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
André in Zuid-Afrika
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1846
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Deborah wrote: | This is a sad business, and I feel I had something to do with it because, way back when some threads started getting into areas that many parents (in the US, at least) would not like their kids getting into, I was worried about possible negative ramifications (such as someone's parents being upset and getting the forum shut down), and wrote as much to Andre. He had been feeling the same way, and so created the adult forum, to be viewable only by those who were at least 18 years old (or who, at least, professed to be at least 18 years old, because how can you really know?). I think keeping its existence hidden from underage people was an excellent idea. I think adhering to the rules would have been an even better idea. I believe Elaine's moving some posts to the adult forum was the right thing to do, but, unfortunately, announcing her intention (I assume so that it wouldn't seem like overzealous censorship) revealed the existence of the forum to everyone. I can't blame Elaine -- after it happened, I tried to think of how it could have been avoided and eventually came up with an idea, but it didn't occur to me until a couple of days later.
As Marc (who I believe really exists) said, Pauline has a lot of paranoia; it's part of her illness. I'm sure that's why she thinks she's been singled out. (By the way, Marc, she wasn't the only one who was excluded.) And I have to say, Andre, that even though you eventually admitted that you inadvisedly let Porthos join because you thought he could handle it, you first adamantly declared that there were no exceptions to the 18 and over rule. I don't see how you can claim that you were being entirely honest, and I don't think Pauline could have been assured of your good intentions by it. |
Yes, Deborah, I'm a deceitful liar. I took decisions which I believed was in the best interests of the forum, and then lied about it. Now let's see, how many other things have I lied about? Er... can't think of anything right now, maybe you know about more?
I stated at first that the rule was strictly 18+, as I was not aware that Pauline knew that Porthos did have access. This was to protect her, as I knew she believed she was the only one who was excluded. When I realised that she knew about Porthos, I admitted that he was included, and also why I did so.
I find it curious, though, that you call me dishonest. But you apparently have no problem with the fact that Pauline has created a new profile, pretending to be someone else. Do you find that honest?
| Quote: | | And, by the way, did you tell the rest of us that you were making an exception in Porthos's case? Or were we supposed to be keeping track of people's birthdays? I trusted that you were doing that. When he joined, I assumed that, like Benjamin, he'd been granted admission when he turned 18. |
No, in the same way that I don't inform all members of every single decision I take.
| Quote: | | As I stated before, my concerns were legal ones. No matter how much you feel Porthos is able to handle it, he's still under 18. Frankly, I think any of the under-18 group on this forum could have "handled" it. |
Pauline would not have been able to handle it, she was barely able to handle the ordinary forums, and you know that.
| Quote: | | But I definitely feel deceived. |
So do I. I've dealt with Benjamin's hypocricy elsewhere. I find it interesting that you suddenly became aware of Porthos stating his age (on an old post) after this trouble started, and then, oh so innocently, asked me about it...
| Quote: | | It's your forum to handle how you choose, and if you feel hurt by Pauline and feel she's someone you don't want to have her on your forum, you have every right to exclude her. But I don't think you're being honest with yourself about your honesty. |
Oh, I'm completely happy that I'm being honest to myself.
| Quote: | | I also object to your stating that "many members" of the forum are "fed up" with her. That's how bad reporters report things. Can you be specific and enumerate them and what they've said to you on the subject? |
There is another secret forum around here (see, there's another thing that I've been dishonest about). It's called the moderator's forum, where the moderators discuss problems, etc. We have an entire thread devoted to Pauline (initially Pauline and Sander) there... I've also received PM's from several people over the past few months. Those were private discussions, and I will not reveal them to you.
| Quote: | | I'm sorry she won't be here anymore; on the other hand, I'm glad she's in a place where she can't read what you wrote. |
Yes. Pity I wasn't in a place where I couldn't read what she wrote about me... Not only here, but also on Unilang.
_________________
Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
André in Zuid-Afrika
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1846
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Marc wrote: | | André in Zuid-Afrika wrote: | | I find it interesting that you know so many details about Pauline's activities here. I therefor do not believe you that you are "Pauline's brother", you are indeed Pauline. A few months ago your "sister, Spohie" also turned up here on your behalf... |
Yes, Sophie is another of my sisters. I know many details because I know her log-in and I love my sister. I don't read all her messages, but my Mum and Sophie mostly read them. We are happy that she writes because for so long she was in another world and didn't communicate in a comprehensible way. Her psychiatrist knows and informed us it's better to allow her to write on language forums, for reasons he explained to us. Personally I don't like forums. |
I'm going to assume for a moment that you are indeed Marc (which I don't believe).
I suggest you get another psychiatrist. If he believes it's good for her to write on forums such as these, he's an idiot. And if you and your family did indeed monitor her here, you have done a terrible job of looking after your sister.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Yes, you only complained to me about Sander, but I specifically asked you to let me know if anyone writes something that upsets you, so that I can handle it. You chose to get into fights with people. You were rude to Sander many times, and indeed swore at him at least once (pretending afterwards that you didn't realise it was a swearword. As for numerous PM's, there were, and you know it. |
I am not Pauline. I found Sander very provocative and rude, in fact worse than my sister who can be very argumentative. |
I thought you didn't read all her messages, yet you comment on them as if you have. Pauline was as much at fault as Sander was (who, incidently, has also been banned).
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | I fionally banned you for a week when, less than an hour after you promised me once again that you will have no more fights with him, you launched a totally unprovoked attack on him. |
I'd like to read this attack. Please give me the link. |
Gladly. http://langcafe2.myfreeforum.org/...hp&highlight=banned+week#5800 |
I didn't find Pauline's unprovoked attack. |
Her exact words were deleted by me because of its viciousness. But read that thread, and you will see the pattern.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | This has been your excuse every time. I find it strange that you can control your illness sufficiently to discuss it rationally when it suits you, but cannot control it when you don't want to. |
It's a problem I have with Pauline too. I don't think it's that she can control her illness but that she's ill one day or well. |
OK. But that's exactly why I say you as a family have neglected your duties. You should've prevented her from coming onto forums such as this one on days she was not well. But you didn't bother. It didn't matter to you whether she upset other people in the process.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I already admitted that I was probably wrong about letting Porthos in. But I was not dishonest about it. If you really are Pauline's brother, which I don't believe, how honest was it when she created a new profile and pretended to be someone else? |
You weren't dishonest when you letted him in, but when you wrote it was only for 18+. No, the Palomino membership was not honest. |
I wrote that specifically because I knew it would be worse for her if she had known there were exceptions. I wasn't aware at the time that she already knew. When I realised that, I explained why I had let Porthos in.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | I recently made you a moderator, hoping that that will encourage you to act more responsibly. Clearly that was a mistake. |
How can you say this ? As moderator she behaved very well ; she didn't moderate anything ! She was very careful to respect all people's posts and didn't use this moderator power anytime. |
Behaved well? By getting into fights? Many members here are fed up with you. |
Fed up with Pauline, do you mean ? |
Yes
| Quote: | | Quote: | | You've hurt several people here. You brought this over yourself. Do you think the things you wrote about me on Unilang didn't hurt? The things you recently wrote about me? You've played on my feelings to get your way once too often. The ban is final, and I don't care how many members of your family you pretend to be. |
I don't think that she played on your feelings; she thought that you were a very nice person. I am not against her not visiting; I don't know why she wanted to waste her time here, but it wasn't my decision. |
She played on my feelings several times. I was there, but I'm not sure about you, because one moment you know about everything, next moment you only know about some things...
| Quote: | IF YOU ARE REALLY MARC...
If you really do care about Pauline as you claim, you would not have allowed her to participate in any forum such as this one. People are liable to get upset over things written here and on other forums. You claim that your family knows all that was written. Why did you then allow her to continue, knowing that it upsets her? Why didn't you give her guidance on how to handle issues? Why did you allow her to attack people (for example during her fight with Uriel? Why didn't you explain things to her when she misunderstood (which often happened)?
If you are really Marc, you will act in her best interests by preventing her from joining any forum on the internet. If you are really Marc, you have neglected your duties in a serious way. |
I haven't the power to prevent Pauline to visit this forum or any other ones.[/quote]
Bulshit. No major powers are needed to prevent a child from going onto the internet.
| Quote: | | I think that guidance was given to her several times, but not by me. |
You claim to be so close to her, but you think guidance was given to her, you don't know? Some close brother....
| Quote: | | She does misunderstand, but doesn't accept it. It's very annoying, but she's my little sister and although she's so argumentative and stubborn, she's kind, cute and I want her to get well. |
I also want her to get well, but I also have to think of the other members here.
| Quote: | | I can't know how to do this except be a loyal brother. |
I'll accept that you're loyal to her, but I reiterate that you and the rest of your family have neglected your duties.
| Quote: | | She's attacked people, if you say she has (I havn't read it) but I'm relieved that she communicates. |
Even if that means hurting other people?
| Quote: | | I don't know about Uriel, only Sander, and I'm only her brother, I'm not her doctor or our parents. This is a big mess and I'm signing out to enjoy my vacation with friends. |
This is a big mess, yes, caused first and foremost by your sister. Or more to the point, by your negligence.
_________________
Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie.
Last edited by André in Zuid-Afrika on Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benjamin [inactive]
Connoisseur
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1687
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not entirely sure why I'm being hypocritical, except that I didn't make more of an effort to sort this problem out myself. You say you dealt with this elsewhere — if you mean the moderator forum, then I'm afraid I don't have access to that now.
I'm sorry André, but it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to come here anymore. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Liz
Langcaffeine Addict
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Hongarije
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Neither Pauline nor Andre is completely irreproachable in this respect, and I don't think it's fair to discuss the whole issue behind Pauline's back.
_________________
Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deborah
Connoisseur
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| André in Zuid-Afrika wrote: | | Yes, Deborah, I'm a deceitful liar. I took decisions which I believed was in the best interests of the forum, and then lied about it. Now let's see, how many other things have I lied about? Er... can't think of anything right now, maybe you know about more? |
I was referring to one point only, which I think is pretty clear from what I wrote.
| Quote: | | I stated at first that the rule was strictly 18+, as I was not aware that Pauline knew that Porthos did have access. This was to protect her, as I knew she believed she was the only one who was excluded. When I realised that she knew about Porthos, I admitted that he was included, and also why I did so. |
What I got from what I read is that she already knew, before you made your statement.
| Quote: | | I find it curious, though, that you call me dishonest. But you apparently have no problem with the fact that Pauline has created a new profile, pretending to be someone else. Do you find that honest? |
No, and so I wrote to her in a PM.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | And, by the way, did you tell the rest of us that you were making an exception in Porthos's case? Or were we supposed to be keeping track of people's birthdays? I trusted that you were doing that. When he joined, I assumed that, like Benjamin, he'd been granted admission when he turned 18. |
No, in the same way that I don't inform all members of every single decision I take. |
No, you don't need to inform all members of every single decision you take. But since you knew of my concern for legal issues, I thought you might have let me know. However, I understand that it could have slipped your mind, or that you didn't realize the extent of my concern.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | As I stated before, my concerns were legal ones. No matter how much you feel Porthos is able to handle it, he's still under 18. Frankly, I think any of the under-18 group on this forum could have "handled" it. |
Pauline would not have been able to handle it, she was barely able to handle the ordinary forums, and you know that. |
She may not have been able to handle that forum in the sense that she has trouble with forums in general, but I don't feel that the sexual nature of the forum would have presented a separate problem.
| | |
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
