Yes! Yes! Yes! Some people like to see people from the United States as essentially just Northern Europeans who live on the other side of the Atlantic — I always feel that this is a mistake.
It is a huge mistake, and a grossly wrong assumption. Mainstream American culture might have more in common with northern Europe than southern Europe, but it is still nothing like the culture of N. Europe by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Northern Europe has more in common with southern Europe than it does with the U.S. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
In fact, I would go so far as to say that Northern Europe has more in common with southern Europe than it does with the U.S.
Actually, my uncle (from England) said that he felt far more at home in Italy than in the Midwestern United States. So you might be right in a number of ways.
Fab,
If you don't mind me doing so, I would like to make one correction for your English grammar. You often use "than" when you should use "as". For instance:
Quote:
es, but benjamin is not American, and he feels basically say the same things on this subject THAT you or Uriel.
Correct form:
Yes, but Benjamin is not American, and he feels basically the same things on this subject *as* you or Uriel.
Thanks for the correction. Don't hesitate to do it !
I think I tend to translate the "que" systematically with "than", while I shouldn't, I'll try to apply your advice next time !
There's more to it than just that. Remember, we are Americans
Yes, but benjamin is not American, and he feels basically say the same things on this subject than you or Uriel.
Probably because I don't see much connection between Germany and Jamaica, as I've already said. And even though I may appear to have similar views on this to Uriel and Porthos, it isn't necessarily for exactly the same reasons. What Porthos said basically explains why Americans do not generally feel as stronger connection to Northern Europe as some Europeans might expect.
But in terms of my expectations of countries vis-à-vis the language spoken there, I basically agree with Uriel. Uriel and I would expect Germany and France to have more in common with each-other than either would have with either Jamaica or the Dominican Republic, because we would not see the related languages (Germany and English; French and Spanish) as sufficient to say that Germany should be grouped 'culturally' with Jamaica whilst France should be grouped 'culturally' with the Dominican Republic. Presumably, you would expect the opposite.
I think I tend to translate the "que" systematically with "than", while I shouldn't, I'll try to apply your advice next time !
I understand your problem. I do the same thing with Spanish, because Latin languages lack multiple options for this type of a word. For instance, in English we have the word "by" for many things, such as: "I'm leaving by subway". In Spanish, you would have to say, "Me voy en metro". There's no word for "by". You either use "por" or "en" which respectively translate "for" and "in". I often use "que" in the wrong way in Spanish as well. It's hard when translating sometimes, especially if you still think in your mother tounge. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
Actually, Benjamin, don't you think that a British black might actually feel a closer sense of connection with Jamaica than Germany? Or are we proceeding under a tacit assumption here that a Briton has to be ethnically Caucasian in order to qualify as a fully-fledged subject of the Queen?
I just realised that we have been looking at this subject from a very white-based point of view: A British feels culturally closer to his Northern European cousins; A British feels more at home in Milan than in the Midwest.
What about Ashley Cole? What'd Theo Walcott say? How do you think Sol Campbell or Emile Heskey would react if we were to pose this question to them: Do you feel culturally closer to Germany or Jamaica?
PS: I hope you recognise the names I've just mentioned. They are all black English footballers of West Indian extraction. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Actually, Benjamin, don't you think that a British black might actually feel a closer sense of connection with Jamaica than Germany? Or are we proceeding under a tacit assumption here that a Briton has to be ethnically Caucasian in order to qualify as a fully-fledged subject of the Queen?
Of course, a lot of black British people would probably feel a greater connection to Jamaica than to Germany. However, I was actually describing the connection between Germany and Jamaica — which to me seems pretty negligible.
Quote:
I just realised that we have been looking at this subject from a very white-based point of view: A British feels culturally closer to his Northern European cousins; A British feels more at home in Milan than in the Midwest.
What about Ashley Cole? What'd Theo Walcott say? How do you think Sol Campbell or Emile Heskey would react if we were to pose this question to them: Do you feel culturally closer to Germany or Jamaica?
We could also say that a percentage of British people probably feel closer to Pakistan than to Germany. Of course, we have been looking at this from a white-centric view — but that is probably inevitable as about 90% of British people are white.
There's more to it than just that. Remember, we are Americans
Yes, but benjamin is not American, and he feels basically say the same things on this subject than you or Uriel.
Probably because I don't see much connection between Germany and Jamaica, as I've already said. And even though I may appear to have similar views on this to Uriel and Porthos, it isn't necessarily for exactly the same reasons. What Porthos said basically explains why Americans do not generally feel as stronger connection to Northern Europe as some Europeans might expect.
But in terms of my expectations of countries vis-à-vis the language spoken there, I basically agree with Uriel. Uriel and I would expect Germany and France to have more in common with each-other than either would have with either Jamaica or the Dominican Republic, because we would not see the related languages (Germany and English; French and Spanish) as sufficient to say that Germany should be grouped 'culturally' with Jamaica whilst France should be grouped 'culturally' with the Dominican Republic. Presumably, you would expect the opposite.
Benjamin,
As I already explained to you, the grouping in linguistico-cultural groups doesn't prevent the countries in question to be part also to other concepts in other points of view. concepts overlaps !
Being part of the "latin" or "germanic" linguistic groups doesn't prevent to be part also of other grouping such as geographical ones such as "carribean"; "mediterranean", "north-American" or "European" groups...
If I define France, it will share with Germany (or UK, Italy, Spain, etc.) the fact of being part of the European concept, which carries with it a specifical geography (with the historical interactions that goes with it), temperate climate (and the way of life and food that goes with it), economico-political similarities (Euro, EU, G8, etc), historical interactions, etc.
On it side, Republica Dominicana, which is a distant country whose latin herency from the Spanish colonial times has been mixed with strong African influences and shows caribean area geographical specificities. It will share with Jamaica a similar climate, geographical situation, strong population of African origin, etc.
But the fact of speaking Spanish connects Republica dominicana with other Spanish countries and spanish heritage exists in it (in the catholic-based mediterranean-style organisation of the society from Spain, Spanish language, spanish architectural influences, ect.
Spain host a strong Dominican comunity, while UK host a Jamaican one, that is due to the linguistic connnection.
If you really want to compare things, you could ask us "is your culture closer to Germany or to Spain ?" or "do you feel more conection with jamaica or with Republica Dominicana ?"
Actually to these last questions my answers will be : I'm closer to Spain's than to germany and I feel culturally closer to Republica Dominicana than to the Anglophone west indies.
Being European, for me is also something which strongly define my identity.
If you really want to compare things, you could ask us "is your culture closer to Germany or to Spain ?" or "do you feel more conection with jamaica or with Republica Dominicana ?"
Actually to these last questions my answers will be : I'm closer to Spain's than to germany and I feel culturally closer to Republica Dominicana than to the Anglophone west indies.
That would be like me saying that I feel 'culturally closer' to Suriname than to French Guiana, simply because they speak a Germanic language (Dutch) there. I'm sorry, but I just don't think like that. For me, I feel essentially the same proximity to Suriname as to French Guiana — they're in the same place, neither is in Europe and neither is English-speaking.
So, Benjamin for you, The USA, Australia, or Canada are as much culturally different for you than Argentina, Mexico, Guatemala, or Cuba because all those countries are eaqually situated in America ?
So, Benjamin for you, The USA, Australia, or Canada are as much culturally different for you than Argentina, Mexico, Guatemala, or Cuba because all those countries are eaqually situated in America ?
That wasn't what I said. What I said was that I do not feel any greater connection to Suriname than to French Guiana. The fact that Suriname speaks a Germanic language (Dutch) is not enough. From the question you posted, you seem to be treating English and Dutch as though they are the same language.
Quote:
Do you know those places ? How can you say that no one would be closer to you than another ?
That's not the issue. The issue is that I do not assume/expect a greater connection to Suriname than to French Guiana simply because of Germanic languages.
Honest question: Do you feel as thought I ought to feel closer to Suriname than to French Guiana? If so, why?
My dad just got back from the Cote d'Azur. he says the south of France is very different than the north in feel, architecture, and attitude.
This is what everybody I've talked to has said. Though I have not been there myself, I too get the feeling that southern France has a very different feel to it than the north. The architecture, the look of the people, the terrain, etc. I equate the south of France with mediterranean Italy and most of Spain, while the north of France is almost like Belgium to me, and does not feel like a southern European region the way most of Italy does for me. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
Though I have not been there myself, I too get the feeling that southern France has a very different feel to it than the north. The architecture, the look of the people, the terrain, etc.
Yes, it is true that the "feel" (we speak about climate, landscapes, colors, vegetation, kind of roofs, etc.) varies a lot in the different regions.
But it is not only a north/south opposition: In the south, as in the north, there is also a strong difference of ambiances between the east and the west, as strong as the north/south one in terms of climates and architecture. The mountainous ambiances of the Jura, Alps, Massif central, the Atlantic ambiances in the north-west and south-west, the almost central European ambiance of Alsace, etc.
I think I have some maps in my folder, to give an illustration.
Climates :
All the Atlantic part of France and a big part of the north half is of oceanic climate, with mild rainny winters and not to hot summers. The more you go close to the Atlanti, the more rainy and cool/mild it will be. this is the climate of Paris (with some continental influences), and is found in most of the Atlantic side of Europe, from northern Portugal to southern Norway.
In the eastern parts of France the climate is of continental type (with some oceanic or mediterranean influences). The winters are more cold, but the summers more hot. This is found in most central Europe (with colder winters more you go at east), or northern Italy.
In the south east and Corsica the climate is mediterranean, with hot and dry summers and mild winters.
In the mountain areas the climate varies not in function of latitude but altitude, such as in Switzerland or Spain, the both most mountainous European countries.
ROOFS:
Generally speaking the traditional architecture is a answer to specific climatical conditions, but not always, so the map may differ a bit :
If we look at roof-styles, even if it is quite "superficial" and is not maybe the most important element in the architecture, it is what most people notice conciently or inconciently when they see a building or a city's ambiance.
In France you could differenciate different areas with different rooftops.
1. "Roman-tiles" / "tuiles canal" :
(tuiles romaine ou tuiles-canal) are an evolution of the roman tiles. The most spread roof type in France, It covers more or less the southern half (without most of the mountains areas: Pyrenees, alps and massif central). This area goes more or less to the loire river (this river is often considered to be the north/south divide in France, because of the change of "architectural ambiance")
made of low inclined roofs (25-30%), for most people it imediatly evoques a "mediterranean atmophere". Imported by the romans, those roofs are well adapted to low-precipitation areas, where the climate is too much rainy they have been slowly replaced by other kinds of roofs:
2. The "ardoise" roofs:
Typical of the north-west regions of France, where rain is frequent. It is also found in the val de Loire region and in Paris (mixed with others, such as "zinc" roofs).
These roofs are found in other places where it rains quite a lot, such as in Ireland, Wales or the Atlantic coast of Spain, or some mountainous areas also.
Those roofs are very inclined and the blue color of the ardoises can give a very strong and specific "Atlantic" ambiance.
3. The "tuiles plates" roofs.
Made of the same material than the roman tiles (argile), they are adapted to very inclined roofs (about 45%), and the color is generally quite different.
It gives a quite different look to the buildings.
They are quite tipical of the parisian basin and northern Burgondy, where the climate is more "continental" than in the north-west.
Those kinds of roofs are also found in southern regions such as Perigord and Quercy.
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