You see the problem with this chart is that it does not define what "light" hair is.
I deeply agree, this is the reaction I expected from you.
This is the whole problem of the "ethnic" categories is that there is no objective creiterium to define to which category a person or a population should be put in. Where is the limit of "black" or "white", what from which hair color you consider somebody to be "mediterranean" or "nordic"...
If you add other characteristics you can imagine how much difficult it will be, and the number of combinations possible with all the nuances imaginable !
Not even saying that expecting a whole population to have the same features is close to 0 chances...
And not forgetting that hair color or skin color evoluate during the seasons and the age...
All we can get is a general impression, that, globally, more you are in countries that have been in strong contact with the mediterranean area, more the average of the people seem darker... more or less, with the accidents of history and migrations, etc...
I agree. There is no pure 'uniform' look which distinguishes southern Europeans from northern Europeans. You will find many stereotypical "nordic" looking people in southern Europe. But in *general*, differences do remain, and people in Sicily or Sardinia stand in stark contrast to people from Sweden. If you were to take a crowd of one hundred people from off the streets of Palermo, and the same from Oslo, you will find that the people as a whole, look very different.
So do you have any of those other charts about the frequency of light hair, which is more specific or precise than the one you provided? I look for things like that on the web, but I'm afraid I'm not as good at finding them as you are. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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Oups, looking in my map library (I have thousands of maps) I just found these. I'm not able to say from which sources they are from, so... It has not much scientific value, I think it was a survey for a shampoo company .
Um, I don't know how accurate those last ones were, but they were certainly more educational than the previous one. 15% of Germans having black hair sounds like an outrageous figure if you ask me. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject:
Porthos wrote:
Um, I don't know how accurate those last ones were, but they were certainly more educational than the previous one. 15% of Germans having black hair sounds like an outrageous figure if you ask me.
Um, I don't know how accurate those last ones were, but they were certainly more educational than the previous one. 15% of Germans having black hair sounds like an outrageous figure if you ask me.
As a European, I tend to think that those numbers doesn't shock me, and seem to be quite realistic, even if it is hard to define objectively what does mean "light hair".
15% of German having black hair seems very realistic, don't forget that a lot of Germans are of Turquish or jewish origins.
Black hair is like Fab's color, or darker. Now unless the Turkish population amounts to more than 10% of the population, I don't see how that is a realistic number. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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And then, you always hear people talking about Britain having far more dark haired people than Germany, and yet, according to this map, there are more dark haired people in Germany then there are in England! So something's wrong. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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But there are also non-Mediterranean, non-Jewish Germans who have very dark hair.
But that is not very common. Only a very small minority of Germans have black hair. 15% figure is much too high I would presume. If black hair just means dark brown, then perhaps, non-mediterranean, non-Jewish Germans might have a 5-10% frequency of dark brown hair. But if black hair means Fab's color, or darker, then I would say only a very small percentage of Germans have that color. Most Germans have light to medium brown hair, while there is a large minority of blond haired people, along with some red heads. Compare that to a place like Argentina, where most people have dark brown or black hair. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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And then, you always hear people talking about Britain having far more dark haired people than Germany, and yet, according to this map, there are more dark haired people in Germany then there are in England! So something's wrong.
Actually I never had heard (other than by you) that English people would be more dark-haired than German. At least it is not what I observed there.
Germany being more southern than England, I find it not surprising that there would be more dark-haired people.
Don't you remember a German guy called Hitler ? Wasn't he brown-haired ?
Quote:
Black hair is like Fab's color
No, actually I have brown hair; not black.
Quote:
Now unless the Turkish population amounts to more than 10% of the population, I don't see how that is a realistic number.
It is not necessary about turkish population, but German people with Turquish, Greek, Italian, African, Chinese, or mixed origins...
As deborah say, they is surely also some long-rooted Germans with black hair.
Last edited by fab on Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Only a very small minority of Germans have black hair. 15% figure is much too high I would presume
How do you know this ? have you been in Germany ?
On the other side, 66% of them would have light hair, that is to say it is more than in UK, where the number would be a bit less, 62%.
Maybe the difference of perception you have heard come from there.
But there are also non-Mediterranean, non-Jewish Germans who have very dark hair.
But that is not very common. Only a very small minority of Germans have black hair. 15% figure is much too high I would presume. If black hair just means dark brown, then perhaps, non-mediterranean, non-Jewish Germans might have a 5-10% frequency of dark brown hair. But if black hair means Fab's color, or darker, then I would say only a very small percentage of Germans have that color. Most Germans have light to medium brown hair, while there is a large minority of blond haired people, along with some red heads. Compare that to a place like Argentina, where most people have dark brown or black hair.
I've been to Southern Germany and my impression was that black-haired people make up for more than 10 % of the local population. In a city like Muinch, 30 % wouldn't strike me as overestimated.
And then, you always hear people talking about Britain having far more dark haired people than Germany, and yet, according to this map, there are more dark haired people in Germany then there are in England! So something's wrong.
Actually I never had heard (other than by you) that English people would be more dark-haired than German. At least it is not what I observed there.
Germany being more southern than England, I find it not surprising that there would be more dark-haired people.
Don't you remember a German guy called Hitler ? Wasn't he brown-haired ?
Quote:
Black hair is like Fab's color
No, actually I have brown hair; not black.
Quote:
Now unless the Turkish population amounts to more than 10% of the population, I don't see how that is a realistic number.
It is not necessary about turkish population, but German people with Turquish, Greek, Italian, African, Chinese, or mixed origins...
As deborah say, they is surely also some long-rooted Germans with black hair.
See, Fab, unless your picture has very poor lighting, many would call your hair "black", as there is no trace of blond in your hair or anything else which would lighten it. Your hair is darker than my mother's, and she has dark brown hair. If your hair is defined as brown, then I find it hard to imagine that 15% of Germans have "black" hair. To me, "brown hair" looks like this girl:
Or this boy:
My hair color is similar to the above two pictures.
This is reddish-brown, which is one of the most common colors in my extended family:
This is pure red hair. In English we would say, "carrot-red hair":
This is blond hair:
Dirty blond - light brown (both would be considered light hair)
Black hair:
I think of most southern Germans, Austrians, and Swiss as having mainly light brown to medium brown hair, with a sizeable, but small minority of blondes, while north Germany, the Netherlands, and Scandanavia has a very large minority of blondes, and a much smaller percentage of people with medium to dark brown hair. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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I tend to think that in the numberof 20% of black haired people in France, a big part of them would have some extra-European origins.
Since we have 10% of our population being from North African origins, and most of them have black hair. Black people and Asians-typed too.
Most people here are of a very diverse shades of brown-hair. The limit with "light" hair is not easily defined and change during the seasons.
In summer I have some blondish tendencies in my brown hair. My hair is definitively not black.
Well, I have been to England, France, and Germany, and I would say that they have about the same proportion of light to dark hair as ordinary American caucasians. I noticed no unusual preponderance of blondes or redheads, and no lack of dark brunettes. Plenty of people had very dark hair.
I tend to think that in the numberof 20% of black haired people in France, a big part of them would have some extra-European origins.
Since we have 10% of our population being from North African origins, and most of them have black hair. Black people and Asians-typed too.
Most people here are of a very diverse shades of brown-hair. The limit with "light" hair is not easily defined and change during the seasons.
In summer I have some blondish tendencies in my brown hair. My hair is definitively not black.
Well, your hair looks very dark in your picture. I am the same way. In the winter time, my brown hair becomes close to dark brown, while in the summer, I have tons of natural blond and red highlights in my hair, which really serves to lighten it during the summer months. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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Well, I have been to England, France, and Germany, and I would say that they have about the same proportion of light to dark hair as ordinary American caucasians. I noticed no unusual preponderance of blondes or redheads, and no lack of dark brunettes. Plenty of people had very dark hair.
and Nick Frost (on the left):
Seing those two person, the left one have the average apperance of 70% of French population. The guy on the right would be expected to be English or German (or another), since the very blond type is quite rare here (less than 10% I think) - excepted in some specific places along the German and Belgian borders and English channel such as Alsace, Nord-pas-de-Calais or Normandy.
Actually, in Paris you can see quite a lot of people with this kind of look, but most of them are tourists. You can see quite a lot of blond women, but a great majority are bleached.
Well, I have been to England, France, and Germany, and I would say that they have about the same proportion of light to dark hair as ordinary American caucasians. I noticed no unusual preponderance of blondes or redheads, and no lack of dark brunettes. Plenty of people had very dark hair.
Look at British actors Vinnie Jones:
and Nick Frost (on the left):
Oh yes, there are quite a bit of dark haired *British* people. That is not disputed, especially in southwest England, Wales, and the highlands of Scotland. Dark hair is a typical "Celtic" trait of the British Isles. Most Irish and Welsh people have dark hair, as opposed to Dutch or Scandanavians, who have large minorities of blond hair, and light brown hair. But we were speaking of Germans, not British people. Germans, particularly in the north of Germany, are a so-called "Teutonic" people. That is, their ancestors were Germanic speaking peoples who originally came from Scandanavia, and are commonly tall, with high rates of blond hair and light eyes. That is why I found some of the figures to be a little outrageous. There must be a difference in how people define "black" hair. Because "black" hair is very dark, and is even in the minority in places like France.
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