I always cringe when people pronounce 'medicine' with three syllables. But it's a sociocultural thing: as I've explained, it's usually those who are less adept with the English language here who tend to pronounce it phonetically.
That must be a British or Commonwealth thing because I've always heard it pronounced with 3 syllables, like this fellow:
That must be a British or Commonwealth thing because I've always heard it pronounced with 3 syllables, like this fellow:
That, I am not sure. I am just aware of the local situation.
But maybe it is more of a RP thing? I haven't the foggiest. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Yes, I am aware of that, Uriel. But still, wouldn't the syllabus be broadly similar across the country? After all, every student is trained to sit for the SATs and standards should not diverge wildly.
Yes, they are broadly similar. But they differ in the details, which is how I learned about imaginary numbers in grade school and your friends didn't get them until college.
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The sciences always fascinated me, and I took away a lot more from those classes than most students -- not because they didn't get the same textbooks and lectures that I did, but because I simply invested myself in reading and understanding them and working out the relationships.
It is fairly obvious that the natural sciences are your forte. However, I feel that the hallmark of an all-rounded education should encompass a broad range of subjects that should also include a musical education and sport for character development.
Sure. We had physical education classes all through school, as well as art, music, home economics, shop class, etc. Team sports and band were available as well, although those were electives. (I have no talent for or interest in either.)
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Using the teaching of foreign languages as an example, I think it is pointless if they are teaching it without producing students who turn out to be reasonably competent speakers. In my view, one either does something well or not attempt to do it at all. What is the point of sitting through a few years of Spanish or French class and not knowing pretty much beyond counting 1 to 10 at the end of high school?
I would certainly agree. _________________ An apple a day....
But I think "especially Brit." should be "only Brit."
My Organisational Behaviour tutor who's from NZ also pronounces 'medicine' with two syllables.
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Sure. We had physical education classes all through school, as well as art, music, home economics, shop class, etc. Team sports and band were available as well, although those were electives. (I have no talent for or interest in either.)
What I had in mind are compulsory games that culminate in inter-house competitions. I am a little prejudiced here as I feel that games for girls can be a purely optional thing. After all, what would they play but netball or hockey anyway?
I have nothing against netball, though. In some ways, I think it can be more challenging than basketball.
Saying that someone is not athletically inclined is a poor excuse for apathy towards games. Some people are not academically gifted as well, but they are still obliged to go through 10 years of formal schooling. An education should not just play to the strengths of the individual; it should also do a good job in exposing his weaknesses, if any. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:49 am Post subject:
loic wrote:
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But I think "especially Brit." should be "only Brit."
My Organisational Behaviour tutor who's from NZ also pronounces 'medicine' with two syllables.
Yes, I knew I was leaving the door open for something like that, but I didn't have the energy at the moment to come up with a word that covered all of the non-Western-hemispherical accents of English, so I just used "Brit." because all of those accents sound more related to Brit. than Canadian and United Statesian do.
I suppose it is because a language is not just a dull colourless programming language like QBasic or C++ but rather a medium by which culture and literature are also transmitted. I'd go out on a limb here and say that most second language learners of English are not familiar with many of the culturally-specific English phrases such as 'being in a sticky wicket' or 'being bowled over' or 'scoring an own goal'.
I agree. However, I can assure you that most learners having been or being taught by native speakers don't know these words, either. Some native teachers only teach idioms at a very advanced level, whereas others think that learners/non-native speakers shouldn't use culturally specific idioms as they don't belong to that culture, and should therefore stick to a sort of sterile neutral variety/style. I find it nonsensical because, as you put it quite rightly, language isn't a programming language and as such isn't normally used under laboratory conditions.
As far as native speakers are concerned, I don't cast doubt on the efficacy of these teachers in general. I just wanted to point out that being a native speaker is no guarantee of being a good teacher as well, and that teachers shouldn't be payed on the basis of their native language but rather in accordance with their teaching skills.
loic wrote:
IKirk, an old hand in this forum, once dispassionately and rationally explained to me the origins of the word 'lieutenant'. Apparently, it was once spelled as lefttenant before fashionable French spellings replaced the original ones. While the spelling might have evolved, the pronunciation has not kept pace with the change and how we continue to pronounce this subaltern rank is something like a linguistic fossil.
An interesting piece of information...thanks, Loic. I have to admit that I didn't know that, which is a shame. Now I'm happy that I pronounce it in the *original* way. (Not that the other pronunciation is less "correct".) By the way, what happened to Kirk? He isn't on Antimoon anymore, either.
loic wrote:
Personally, I like how we in Singapore pronounce many of our words. English is not a phonetic tongue; we do not pronounce the 's' in island or isle, do we?
Of course we don't. I wasn't implying that, either.
loic wrote:
I always cringe when people pronounce 'medicine' with three syllables. But it's a sociocultural thing: as I've explained, it's usually those who are less adept with the English language here who tend to pronounce it phonetically.
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I usually don't cringe when people don't pronounce words the way I'm used to. The only exception is that when I hear the unpalatalised pronunciation of the word "issue" on the BBC. It makes me hit the ceiling for some reason. I know it's a perfectly normal and valid, nevertheless, slightly old-fashioned kind of pronunciation, but... It's not a value judgement, just entirely subjective.
I assume your aversion towards pronouncing "medicine" with three syllables is an RP thing. Most RP/near-RP speakers pronounce it with two syllables as this is considered the "standard" way but I've heard plenty of British speakers pronounce it with three syllables, too. In American English, the three syllables way is the norm, as far as I'm aware.
loic wrote:
Er....I think I pronounce 'can't in that way.
Do you???
loic wrote:
I like how you derisively painted those 3 year degree courses as Mickey Mouse majors. Some degrees cannot be taken too seriously such as a Bachelor in Leisure Studies or a Bachelor in Football Management or something along those lines.
Incidentally, shouldn't female undergraduates be awarded a Spinster degree upon graduation? A Bachelor is a strictly masculine title.
So imagine the academic credentials of a certain female graduate who had read history in university: SA (Spinster of Arts) 1-1 (First Class Honours).
Note that not all three year degree courses are mickey mouse, however, the vast majority of them, including the most popular courses, definitely are. I had the chance of having a couple of Mickey Mouse majors as roommates. Their lifestyles were *slightly* different from mine...I daresay they spent more time at parties than at uni. It wasn't a problem as long as they stayed away anywhere else but later they developed the habit of staying in our room and listening to extremely loud music from dawn to dusk, to my greatest horror.
Are Bachelor Leisure Studies and suchlike are real majors or just hypothetical ones?
I like the idea of Spinster Degree. I've also thought of it as a good solution for eliminating inequality among men and women. I don't know why it hasn't been proposed by feminist activists yet. However, I must say that "spinster" is not too flattering an adjective to fling at young women (not to mention middle-aged or elderly ladies) as it, unlike "bachelor", has some negative connotations. Spinsters are nowadays called singles, rather elegantly if not euphemistically, so I would suggest that bachelor degrees obtained by women should be called "Single Degrees"...No, it sounds awkward...not to mention that the term "single" applies to both men and women. Therefore, say, BA and SA (Spinster of Arts - for the uninitiated) should unanimously renamed as "Single of Arts". That's horrible - what about married people then?
loic wrote:
Not that you'd blush, I suppose. You must be pretty blase by now.
That said, I still don't possess the slightest desire to see how they are extracting poison from their cobras.
uriel wrote:
Sure. We had physical education classes all through school, as well as art, music, home economics, shop class, etc. Team sports and band were available as well, although those were electives. (I have no talent for or interest in either.)
Pardon my ignorance, but what the heck is "shop class"? Did you learn shopping skills? That one is a total stranger to me. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:
Liz wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what the heck is "shop class"? Did you learn shopping skills? That one is a total stranger to me.
"Shop" classes teach skills that would be emphasized in vocational schools. In my junior high school days (the early '60s), shop courses were metal shop, wood shop and mechanical drawing. I imagine there are much more high-tech shop courses these days.
In my day, boys in the 7th and 8th grades were required to take a shop course each semester, while girls were required to take 2 years of "Home Ec"(onomics), which consisted primarily of cooking and sewing. When I was in the 8th grade, a girl in my class made waves when when she insisted that she should be allowed to take mechanical drawing. It's hard to believe now, but she really had to fight for it, and became the first girl in the school's history to take a shop class. As the '60s progressed, gender role-bending became much more common.
"Shop" classes teach skills that would be emphasized in vocational schools. In my junior high school days (the early '60s), shop courses were metal shop, wood shop and mechanical drawing. I imagine there are much more high-tech shop courses these days.
In my day, boys in the 7th and 8th grades were required to take a shop course each semester, while girls were required to take 2 years of "Home Ec"(onomics), which consisted primarily of cooking and sewing. When I was in the 8th grade, a girl in my class made waves when when she insisted that she should be allowed to take mechanical drawing. It's hard to believe now, but she really had to fight for it, and became the first girl in the school's history to take a shop class. As the '60s progressed, gender role-bending became much more common.
Oh...I see. We had similar classes, too, both gender bending and gender specific. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
I'd go out on a limb here and say that most second language learners of English are not familiar with many of the culturally-specific English phrases such as 'being in a sticky wicket' or 'being bowled over' or 'scoring an own goal'.
I'm not sure what 'being in a sticky wicket' or 'being bowled over' mean either. And for some reason, I always used to think that 'scoring an own goal' was 'scoring a home goal', partly because for many people there would be very little difference in pronunciation between those two phrases.
And for the record, I pronounce 'medicine' with three syllables.
I'm not sure what 'being in a sticky wicket' or 'being bowled over' mean either.
STICKY WICKET
OED definition: A situation that is hard to deal with
Eg. We're on a sticky wicket with these negotiations - they could easily fail.
Another example as found in the Jamaican newspaper The Gleaner, April 1930:
"Your Excellency, Sir William Morrison, and gentlemen. I am afraid tonight, owing to the rain we have had in this island of Springs, I am batting on rather a sticky wicket. We have just heard Sir William Morrison make, in my opinion, a magnificent speech. I do not hope or think of living up to that."
BOWLED OVER
OED definition:
Phrv V: 1) to knock somebody down 2) to surprise/astonish someone greatly
Eg. We were bowled over by the news of her sudden marriage.
OWN GOAL
OED definition: 1) a goal scored accidentally by a member of a team against his or her own side 2) a silly mistake made against one's own interests, which embarrasses one but amuses other people
Eg. The proposals threatened their own jobs and were seen as a spectacular own goal.
I hope you weren't taking the mickey out of me, Benjamin. For a wild moment, I thought that I have been speaking wrongly all these years. But then again, such expressions are in such common currency, at least in Singapore. So even if those expressions are only peculiar to my country, they are at least worthy of a mention in the OED. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
I am a little prejudiced here as I feel that games for girls can be a purely optional thing. After all, what would they play but netball or hockey anyway?
Oh, you HAVE to be kidding!
Let's see -- we had basketball, volleyball, soccer, softball, baseball, track, swimming, equitation. Ever seen barrel racing? That's considered a "girl's rodeo sport". One of my friend's daughters has been in competitive shooting sports (yes, with a gun) since middle school. Title 9 requires that all universities offer the same number of sports to women that they do to men, and put their female athletes through the same grueling practice-and-game regimen as their males (I worked at my university's basketball arena, and watched those girls limp around after practice swaddled in ace wrap with icebags tied to every joint -- they work 'em just as hard!). My mother's university has one of the top three gymnastics teams in the US -- ex-Olympians join that team.
In grade school and high school I had to play baseball, soccer, basketball, hockey (considered a guy's sport here -- I don't think there are any chicks in the the Edmonton Oilers), do situps, pushups, run laps, etc. -- whether I liked it or not!
My favorite game was dodgeball -- not really a sport, more just trying not to get hit. But we only got to play that when it rained. The goal is to take that ball and whip it as hard as you can at someone else. Preferably hitting them in the face or the stomach.
And by the time I got to school, we were all required to take shop and home ec -- boy or girl.
Barrel racing
Basketball
Gymnastics
Okay, I think it's a stupid game, but some people like it.
I'm guessing this is a fastpitch wind-up. They always look silly.
(Sigh) Texas Tech beating NMSU in English equitation.... _________________ An apple a day....
Sadly, it would seem the original site has been overrun by trolls... _________________ Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie.
Honestly, I don't really understand what was the reason for setting up the first langcafe forum while the "very first" langcafe was still existing? What's more, it is still existing, as opposed to the previous langcafe, the license for which expired last year.
And by the way - do you realize, Andre, that the fist birthday of Langcafe2 is coming soon?
Honestly, I don't really understand what was the reason for setting up the first langcafe forum while the "very first" langcafe was still existing? What's more, it is still existing, as opposed to the previous langcafe, the license for which expired last year.
And by the way - do you realize, Andre, that the fist birthday of Langcafe2 is coming soon?
The idea was to create a more sophisticated, and more permanent, forum. Boy, were we wrong on that second reason... Actually, that first one did disappear for a while, and then suddenly resurfaced.
Hehe, yeh, I've got langcafe2's birthday up on the birthday thread... _________________ Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie.
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(Not that the other pronunciation is less "correct".) By the way, what happened to Kirk? He isn't on Antimoon anymore, either.
Actually, that first one did disappear for a while, and then suddenly resurfaced.