Sehr interessant ! Moi aussi je considère l'Angleterre, le Pays-de-Galles et les Irlandes (libre & occupée) comme faisant partie, avant tout, de l'Europe occidentale.
Greg, je suis du même avis que toi et cela signifie que je m'approuve -même, lol _________________ Jeder hat ein Recht auf meine Meinung!
I always find this ridiculous idea that the British have of being the "51st state" completely amusing ...
...it assumes that we would invite you to join in the first place!
It seems to be a common error on the part of the British (and I guess others) to assume that the US is really, really gung-ho about expanding its membership (despite the glaring fact that we haven't added a state in over 50 years, and probably wouldn't even want the closest thing to a possible candidate -- Puerto Rico -- as one; a mutual disdain, by the way).
It's even more amusing to realize that they believe statehood is something we would impose on an area by force -- apparently they are not even slightly acquainted with all the maneuverings and hoops that territories historically had tojump through just through to get congressional approval for an upgrade to statehood!
I remember watching John Le Carre's The Tailor of Panama, and being completely bemused by the "American" general's assertion that we needed to invade Panama ... because the flag needed another star on it!
That is soooo not how it has ever worked! _________________ An apple a day....
I always find this ridiculous idea that the British have of being the "51st state" completely amusing ...
...it assumes that we would invite you to join in the first place!
I remember in the early eighties a book was published which seriously suggested that South Africa should become the 51st state. The author believed it to be a perfect solution.... a black governor (which would make black South Africans happy) and a white president (which would make white South Africans happy)...
But of course, we never received an invitation to join, so that was that... _________________ Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie.
There's actually a small political party in Northern Ireland called the Ulster American Party which actually advocates that Northern Ireland become the 51st state as a means of solving the problems there. They seem to assume that the United States would have them if they wanted to join — do you think they would?
I read something on the internet the other day which suggested that, if Northern Ireland were to join the Republic of Ireland to form a united Ireland, then the Irish would probably want to look to join the United States, apparently to ensure 'religious freedoms for all'. Um, I don't think so, lol. And freedom of religion is already guaranteed by the Republic of Ireland anyway.
There's actually a small political party in Northern Ireland called the Ulster American Party which actually advocates that Northern Ireland become the 51st state.
What? Why? Well, as long as it remains a small political party... _________________ "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." ---- Groucho Marx
There's actually a small political party in Northern Ireland called the Ulster American Party which actually advocates that Northern Ireland become the 51st state.
What? Why? Well, as long as it remains a small political party...
There are all sorts of 'what should we do with Northern Ireland' campaign groups and political parties. Obviously the two main views are either to keep the status quo with Northern Ireland being part of the UK, or for Northern Ireland to join the Republic of Ireland. There are then two somewhat significant 'minor' views — one of which would be for Northern Ireland to become a completely independent country, whilst the other would be for the whole of Ireland to rejoin the UK. And then there are a number of rather eccentric views, many of which seem to involve the United States in some way.
Probably because a lot of Ulster Scots emigrated to the US and had a profound impact on that country. I wonder if the religious fanaticism (Evangelical Christians etc.) in the US somehow can be traced back to Northern Ireland and the Protestant "siege mentality" you can find there.... _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
Probably because a lot of Ulster Scots emigrated to the US and had a profound impact on that country. I wonder if the religious fanaticism (Evangelical Christians etc.) in the US somehow can be traced back to Northern Ireland and the Protestant "siege mentality" you can find there....
What, like the Fundamentalist Protestant Rev Dr Ian Paisley, who's leader of both the Free Presbyterian Church in Northern Ireland and the Democratic Unionist Party, which is currently the largest political party there?
I usually assume that people like him have some sort of personality disorder. But you're right — he's certainly a religious fanatic.
Consider this: In "Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America" Professor David Hackett Fischer identifies a Borderlands to Backcountry "folkway" of Protestant Scots from the Lowland Borders region and Northern Ireland who settled in the backcountry in and around the Appalachians in the 18th century. It is perhaps no coïncidence that the the two hotbeds of both British and American Protestant fanaticism are dominated by the same ethnic heritage. And the amazing number of US Presidents of more or less Scots-Irish ancestry just proves the strong link between militant democracy and militant Protestantism, not at least the fact that the first Scots-Irish president was Andrew Jackson, the first populist president.
There is a worringly strong historical link between George Bush and Ian Paisley. _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
Pourquoi ? j'associerait l'Ecosse plus facilement à cette Europe "Atlantique", que l'Angleterre, qui est plus dans l'Europe de la mer du nord.
La façade orientale de l'Écosse est baignée par la mer du Nord, non ?
fab wrote:
Quote:
Western France, too, is the very quintessence of Europe occidentale, as is most of Northern Iberia.
I would precice north-western France. I won't associate the south-west from Ile d'Yeu to Pays Basque with the "quintessential tipical atlantic" Europe as Britanny woul be: the ambiance is clearly different and the climate less atlantic, with more hot and mediterranean-influenced summers, most of the traditional architecture is of "mediterranean" look. which is not the case for Asturias and Galician coasts.
Pour avoir vécu dans le nord, le centre et le sud du Golfe de Gascogne, je maintiens que la France occidentale se distingue de la France orientale (ne serait-ce que par le niveau des précipitations et leur régime) même si le cours inférieur de la Loire demeure une frontière symbolique très forte, comme tu le relevais. À ce titre, le cas de la Bretagne est très spécial, comme celui de l'Écosse. Le cours inférieur de l'Adour est également une frontière, certes moins célèbre que la Ligérie atlantique.
There is a worringly strong historical link between George Bush and Ian Paisley.
*sigh* I think you're a little fixated, Fredrik. It's called Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS). You realize he's leaving office after this term, right? _________________ "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." ---- Groucho Marx
Yeah, but the Evangelical Ulster-American hillbillies will remain.
Benjamin wrote:
I read something on the internet the other day which suggested that, if Northern Ireland were to join the Republic of Ireland to form a united Ireland, then the Irish would probably want to look to join the United States, apparently to ensure 'religious freedoms for all'. Um, I don't think so, lol. And freedom of religion is already guaranteed by the Republic of Ireland anyway.
I've always found it rather endearing that the Irish elected a Protestant, Douglas Hyde, as their first president, so that no-one could accuse them of having formed a confessional state. But Hyde was an Anglican and perhaps Paisley and his Presbyterian mates view that as almost as bad as "Papist"... _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
The Scotch-Irish influence is a long time past in the US, Fredrik. Back when we were a little less ethnically diverse, they used to be a bigger percentage of the population. But not so much anymore ... plus, it's not like political philosophies are genetic, you know.
If you wanted to just go by stats, you could say that Virginia must be the most influential state in the country, because so many presidents came from that one state. But that's just because back in the day it was one of the most heavily populated states (not to mention the first British colony founded). These days, it's just another little Atlantic state -- it's been far overshadowed by NY, Cali, Texas, and Florida.
As Mark Twain once said, there are three kinds of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics. _________________ An apple a day....
plus, it's not like political philosophies are genetic, you know.
True, but the inbred Scots-Irish hillbillies might be an exception to that rule.
Who else are these Evangelical Potestants? I guess it would be rather unusual for Hispanics to be Evangelical Chistians, or?
Considering that it was Saint Patrick's Day yesterday, I just have to excuse my prejudices against the Scots-Irish with being a romantic at heart in favour of a united Ireland.... _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
Last edited by Fredrik on Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
BTW speaking of Paisley. When the Pope adressed the European parliament, the honourable member Paisley stood up an shouted that the Pope was the Antichrist and waved a big anti-Papist banner! He was then "disarmed" and "escorted" out by the honourable member for Bavaria, Otto von Habsburg, the son of the last Austrian emperor (who now has been beatified by the Catholic church).
You gotta love Paisley for that, his anti-Papism is cool (and something that appeals to me in a sentimental fashion.) _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
plus, it's not like political philosophies are genetic, you know.
True, but the inbred Scots-Irish hillbillies might be an exception to that rule.
Who else are these Evangelical Potestants? I guess it would be rather unusual for Hispanics to be Evangelical Chistians, or?
Considering that it was Saint Patrick's Day yesterday, I just have to excuse my prejudices against the Scots-Irish with being a romantic at heart in favour of a united Ireland....
Well, a new development in American politics is that the Republicans have actually started picking up a lot of the Hispanic vote, because traditional Catholics and fundamentalist Protestants actually have a lot in common in terms of their socially conservative views -- they're usually pretty eye-to-eye when it comes to opinions about marriage, gays, abortion, sex, religious education, etc. We don't tend to sweat the little details of religious ideology as much anymore -- there isn't much anti-Papism (what an old-fashioned word!) these days. And a lot of the core philosophy of that side of the political scene is not so much about religious practice per se as it is about social conservatism, even though we tend to lump the whole thing under the evangelical or fundamentalist banner -- it's actually not confined to any one denomination. Look at Mitt Romney, one of the dark horse contenders for the conservative Christian Republican presidential candidacy -- he's a Mormon.
And you may be surprised to know that while most Hispanics are certainly Catholic (to some degree or other), there are sizeable numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, Baptists, Methodists, etc. among them -- as well as Jews (there is a very strange little Crypto-Jew tradition in NM -- Spanish settlers who were outwardly Catholic to their neighbors, but kept the Jewish faith in secret -- so secretly that over the centuries, being cut off from the rest of the Jewish tradition, their practices diverged to the point of being unrecognizable by modern Judaic standards.)
And as far as I know, Saint Patrick's Day isn't until March 17th -- you guzzling the green beer early this year? _________________ An apple a day....
There is a worringly strong historical link between George Bush and Ian Paisley.
And strong analogies too : two god-fearing, peace-loving Tartuffes.
Uriel wrote:
I always find this ridiculous idea that the British have of being the "51st state" completely amusing ...
...it assumes that we would invite you to join in the first place!
It seems to be a common error on the part of the British (and I guess others) to assume that the US is really, really gung-ho about expanding its membership (despite the glaring fact that we haven't added a state in over 50 years, and probably wouldn't even want the closest thing to a possible candidate -- Puerto Rico -- as one; a mutual disdain, by the way).
Exactly ! And that's what makes the UK collaboration to the US invasion tragically pathetic : neither Delaware nor Whitehall have their say on how the "coalition of the willing" should be managed....
I always find this ridiculous idea that the British have of being the "51st state" completely amusing ...
...it assumes that we would invite you to join in the first place!
It seems to be a common error on the part of the British (and I guess others) to assume that the US is really, really gung-ho about expanding its membership (despite the glaring fact that we haven't added a state in over 50 years, and probably wouldn't even want the closest thing to a possible candidate -- Puerto Rico -- as one; a mutual disdain, by the way).
Exactly ! And that's what makes the UK collaboration to the US invasion tragically pathetic : neither Delaware nor Whitehall have their say on how the "coalition of the willing" should be managed....
Umm, I don't get the link. There's no parallel between being invited to join a country and two separate countries being allied in a war.
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Moi aussi je considère l'Angleterre, le Pays-de-Galles et les Irlandes 
The author believed it to be a perfect solution.... a black governor (which would make black South Africans happy) and a white president (which would make white South Africans happy)... 
Well, as long as it remains a 
My god, does the phrase "too far away" not mean anything to you people?!!
