Seriously, I know what England is like. As you can see, I have red hair. Let me tell you, from about the age of 5 to the age of 16, I experienced abuse every day at school because of the colour of my hair. People would shout insults at me, physically abuse me, spit at me etc. Although I don't have that problem at school anymore, random people still sometimes shout insults at me on the street.
I'm very sorry to hear that. And very surprised, I imagined red hair was a source of national pride in Britain.
I usually imagine that it is in Scotland (that country has a higher percentage of people with red hair than anywhere else in the world), but apparently not in England. Indeed, people used to tell me on a regular basis that they thought that I should die my hair brown. Admittedly, however, my hair colour was not the only reason I experienced this abuse at school — me generally being a pompous git was probably a significant factor as well.
Indeed, people used to tell me on a regular basis that they thought that I should die my hair brown.
I've never understood why so many people find red hair acceptable for women but not for men. (I'm not one of those people -- I like it on both.)
Many people don't find it acceptable on women either.
There is such a HUGE prejudice against people with red hair, for absolutely no reason - I know of people who have been attacked, even in my own school, just because of their hair colour. It greatly saddened me to read how Benjamin also experienced this abuse for such a long time. Many of my friends have been isolated and attacked just because of the colour of their hair, and, for this to still occur nowadays, I find it completely disgusting.
Benjamin wrote:
Now do you understand why I want to renounce my nationality? Now do you understand why I intend to support Scottish independence when I live in Scotland? Because I don't want to have to be associated with these people.
...
It's now official, and I've essentially discovered for definite this week — I'm moving to Scotland in September, and I honestly hope that I never have to live in England on a long-term basis again.
Like we've discussed on MSN previously, I still find this point of view very dramatic --- we're not all that bad!!! Sure, some people dislike us, just as many people love us. We can't change the stereotypes that people give us! Any educated person coming from outside of England would know that not ALL English people are like the small minority groups that cause trouble and show England in a bad light, and to be honest, if any person thinks otherwise, then you may as well not bother associating with them in the first place.
Besides, even if you go to Scotland, you'll still be 'British', right? So you'll still get the stereotypes, regardless of where you are in Britain!
Besides, even if you go to Scotland, you'll still be 'British', right? So you'll still get the stereotypes, regardless of where you are in Britain!
Yes, but then I can argue that all the stereotypes of British people are actually based upon England. Which is largely true, for the simple reason that English people are very much the majority group in the UK.
Besides, even if you go to Scotland, you'll still be 'British', right? So you'll still get the stereotypes, regardless of where you are in Britain!
Yes, but then I can argue that all the stereotypes of British people are actually based upon England. Which is largely true, for the simple reason that English people are very much the majority group in the UK.
You just want to place all of the blame onto us English folk, don't you?
Anyway, back to a couple pages ago -- I've always thought of Sweden and Norway and Finland as decent-sized countries (by European standards, of course ), and of the UK as well, dinky. (Both of your little British Isles will fit nicely into New Mexico ... and we are only the 5th largest state in the US.)
Given that I pretty much lump most Europeans together as "family", I have no surprise that y'all have fought two world wars against each other. Historically, it's usually been your next-door neighbors that you attack, not somebody halfway around the world. It's only in the last century with the advent of new technology that the latter has become more the norm. _________________ An apple a day....
I experienced abuse every day at school because of the colour of my hair. People would shout insults at me, physically abuse me, spit at me etc. Although I don't have that problem at school anymore, random people still sometimes shout insults at me on the street.
It's *very* weird and horrible !!! Because of your hair colour people abuse you? I didn't never hear such a stupid thing. It seems like racism because it's based on your colour (hair instead of skin, of course ,but it's small difference). If those people would do the same to an Indian, (or really lesser abuse) then all the world will be furious like on the Big brother TV programme. There's not logic at all but it's typical haveing this mixed moral code of conduct - to be not prejudiced it apply to some but not all. Hypocrits!!!!
It's *very* weird and horrible !!! Because of your hair colour people abuse you? I didn't never hear such a stupid thing. It seems like racism because it's based on your colour (hair instead of skin, of course ,but it's small difference). If those people would do the same to an Indian, (or really lesser abuse) then all the world will be furious like on the Big brother TV programme. There's not logic at all but it's typical haveing this mixed moral code of conduct - to be not prejudiced it apply to some but not all.
Indeed. And rather ironically, many of the people who have abused me because of my hair colour have not actually been white. And to be honest, I actually believe that I would have had far less problems at school had I been black, because I have actually never seen anyone racially abusing a black person.
It's *very* weird and horrible !!! Because of your hair colour people abuse you? I didn't never hear such a stupid thing. It seems like racism because it's based on your colour (hair instead of skin, of course ,but it's small difference). If those people would do the same to an Indian, (or really lesser abuse) then all the world will be furious like on the Big brother TV programme. There's not logic at all but it's typical haveing this mixed moral code of conduct - to be not prejudiced it apply to some but not all.
Indeed. And rather ironically, many of the people who have abused me because of my hair colour have not actually been white. And to be honest, I actually believe that I would have had far less problems at school had I
been black, because I have actually never seen anyone racially abusing a black person.
Yes, because being racist to a black person is not accepted (this is correct of course)but being racist to a person with your hair colour is accepted; it's the only possible conclusion. It's inconcistent and HYPOCRISY
It's *very* annoying when people advise / tell that if you clearly set limits, the bullies don't go past this limit. It is absolutly *not* true. Anyway, how can you clearly set a limit with such racists and bullies? They have not the interest to know and bullies /racists are *always* the guilty ones (my opinion). I can write a thesis on this subject, but I havn't time
You can try to educate those idiotic people, but it wouldn't have succes as they are stupid.
We must buy some green lasers !!!!
Let me tell you, from about the age of 5 to the age of 16, I experienced abuse every day at school because of the colour of my hair.
It's really sad to hear that, Benjamin! There are all kinds of prejudices nearly everywhere you go. In SW-Germany where I live, red hair is not uncommon and isn't that unpopular at all, actually. There are at least 12 red-haired persons I personally know that just enter my mind. I am surely not the only one when I say that I find light reddish hair rather sexy
My brother and his girlfriend recently told me that they wish to have a red-haired baby. Considering the fact that they both are blond-haired, this venture will lead to a complete failure, lol. _________________ Jeder hat ein Recht auf meine Meinung!
Now do you understand why I want to renounce my nationality? Now do you understand why I intend to support Scottish independence when I live in Scotland? Because I don't want to have to be associated with these people.
I want to precise that I gave this exemple to explain that I don't feel England as being particulary francophile. That doesn't help that I aslo had more luck during other trips in England - I remember having being another time in a very nice family.
Concerning hatred and intolerance towards nationality, skin color, physical apperance, sexual orientation or other, I think that we can unfortunally find them on every place. I don't know if Scotland (or any country) is really different from England on this point of view.
I am on the other way surprised about the fact of being insulted for your hair color - to me you actually look like an average English person.
Here red hair is pretty rare (exceptd dyed red hair for women which is very common), maybe some red-haired people can be moqued because that is unusual - But I didn't expected that in England.
Equally, middle-class, upper-middle-class and upper-class people from England have traditionally looked towards France for 'cultural inspiration'. Essentially, anything here that's considered to be 'high class' (especially food and wine) is usually of French origin.
I tend to agree with Porthos, it is a phenomenon quite tipical of only the upper classes of English-speaking countries to tend to have a francophilic attitude (at least for cultural things, while often very critical toward the people) - maybe for the reasons you spoke about; because a lot of "french things" are still seen as "high-class/snobbish", etc. and seemed to be wished by people who consider that to be "high-class", one must follow the image of what they think is "french"... while it is very distant to the reality of everyday in France. I don't think it is a tipical English attitude, I discovered it actually in the USA when I stayed in a upper class family, very tipical American people in all ways, but spending most of the time saying they wanted to taste drink this or that french wine, trying to place a lot of French words in their conversation (most of the time quite inapropriately)
I must say I am a bit fed up with that association. I wasn't aware before that "France" was put in such a piedestal by some English-speaking people before I realized that.
That was surprising, because I never had though our culture or language to have any snobbish/high-class thing in it - for exemple, for us wine has never been a "high class" drink, but has always been the tipical people drink - the one that make people drunk in bars ar at home with your everyday simple meal. The same way, for us our language has nothing more cultured than any other language - we love it because that's our and speaking it make us being ourselves - but it does not carries any snobisshness in it. Actually it would be the contrary : for exemple saying "living-room" instead of "séjour / salon" could be seen as very snobbish.
I think this image of "high-class" has grown in Britain, before been exported, due to the influence that the French court had over the international courts in the 18th and beguining of 19th century, before English took over French. In England, as a remembering of the normands foundators or the kingdom, french has still had a "aristocratic" importance - which it had not in France, were it was as much the poor street language than the courts one.
Quote:
Absolutely. I've found that some people here seem to make this sort of association:
French or Latin = civilised, sophisticated, high class, romantic etc.
Germanic = German = 'we are not like the Germans, honest!' = dull, ugly, boring etc.
... yourself ?
Quote:
Also, French has traditionally been (and still is) the first foreign language which people from England learn at school
well, English is the first language learned, and by far, in most countries of the world. That doesn't make those countries culturally with particular cultural affinities with England. There is a diference between a learned culture and cultural proximity of two cultures.
Quote:
There is, and always has been a very strong Francophile sentiment in England. And more than anything, I think it's that snobbish members of English society want to identify with the French, as they see them as being more sophisticated, and look to them for cultural inspiration
I agree that to some people of the English high society there is a "wish" to adopt some attitude they identify as being "french" - that is actually difficult to say that there is a strong francophilic feeling in England. England is famous to be very francophobic. the famous tabloids, whose prefered sport seem to be french-bashing, don't give me the feeling of a very francophilic country. I don't think that the francophobia of the British is a legend, I personally had my worst experiences abroad in England when I was teenager in "séjour linguistique" . That is the only place where I experienced real xenophobia - when people insult and spit at you without reason because of your nationality.
Lol, this reminds me of a British television show on BBC called "Keeping up Appearances". The main character was a middle aged working class woman, who was always attempting to be a middle-class person of refined tastes and sophistication. Her last name was "Bucket", but she instisted on it being pronounced "Bouquet" so that it would sound French. Lol, what a crack up. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject:
I don't know how much francophilia there is in the US today, but my mother (b. 1920) and her friends adored everything French. My mother, at least -- I don't know about her friends -- abhorred everything German.
I always find this ridiculous idea that the British have of being the "51st state" completely amusing ...
...it assumes that we would invite you to join in the first place!
It seems to be a common error on the part of the British (and I guess others) to assume that the US is really, really gung-ho about expanding its membership (despite the glaring fact that we haven't added a state in over 50 years, and probably wouldn't even want the closest thing to a possible candidate -- Puerto Rico -- as one; a mutual disdain, by the way).
Exactly ! And that's what makes the UK collaboration to the US invasion tragically pathetic : neither Delaware nor Whitehall have their say on how the "coalition of the willing" should be managed....
Umm, I don't get the link. There's no parallel between being invited to join a country and two separate countries being allied in a war.
I can see one , though : if ad-hoc military "alliance" turns out to be a hollow word as it has been rather than fair partnership as it was sold to the British masses, how can a political merger be envisaged at all ?!
Lol, this reminds me of a British television show on BBC called "Keeping up Appearances". The main character was a middle aged working class woman, who was always attempting to be a middle-class person of refined tastes and sophistication. Her last name was "Bucket", but she instisted on it being pronounced "Bouquet" so that it would sound French. Lol, what a crack up.
We get that show in Norway too and I too like it very much. It's a wonderful starter's introduction to social linguistics. But mind you, never tell Hyacinth Bouquet that she is a "working-class woman". She will send her embroidery-loving gay son Sheridan to beat you up! In Britain they have something called "lower middle class", you know!
And concerning the limitations of francophilia: Although Hyacinth insists on French ancestry (Huguenot, if I recall correctly), she always adds "but don't worry, we have no dirty French habits in our family anymore"!
_________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
All times are GMT + 2 Hours Page Previous1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Sure, some people dislike us, just as many people love us. We can't change the stereotypes that people give us! Any educated person coming from outside of England would know that not ALL English people are like the small minority groups that cause trouble and show England in a bad light, and to be honest, if any person thinks otherwise, then you may as well not bother associating with them in the first place.
You just want to place all of the blame onto us English folk, don't you?
), and of the UK as well, dinky. (Both of your little British Isles will fit nicely into New Mexico ... and we are only the 
Hypocrits!!!! 
We must buy some green lasers !!!! 
