Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Xenophobia
A short story...
A couple of days ago, a woman who I had briefly encountered before came running out of her house to inform me of something. Somehow, she remembered my name, although I had no recollection of ever meeting her in the first place. Evidently, we had a short conversation about my health conditions and she remembered.
Her next door neighbors have a sickly 9 year old son, who has a genetic disorder, whereby his skin tears like paper, so that he is all bandaged up like a leper. Recently, he developed a problem with his lower spine, and now he is confined to a chair. My heart about broke when she related the story to me. Anyway, his therapist reccomended that he have a young friend to associate with, capable of relating to his problems. This is where I come into the picture. The lady asked me to meet with the family and possibly hang out with the kid a couple days per week so he can have a friend. So, naturally being the soft-hearted dumb-ass that I am, I agreed.
Then she says, "Oh btw, they're Pakistan. Is that a problem".
I said, "Do you mean they're Pakistani?"
To which she replied, "Yes, and they're devout Muslims."
I said, "Of course that's not a problem. I'm not racist or prejudice against their religion."
I thought it was strange that she would have to first make sure that I was okay with them being Pakistani. It just goes to show how xenophobic a lot of Americans can be toward people of Middle-Eastern origins, who they all deem to be "Arabs", even though Pakistanis are not at all Arabs. Here, people refer to Afghanis and Iranians as Arabs also, revealing their complete ignorance of the region and its people, which should be of concern to Americans, as it is the focal point of the majority of American foreign policy and military interventions. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
About 25% of my school are of Pakistani descent, and then about another 25% are of Indian descent. It's an interesting situation, although the sorts of problems that you might imagine don't actually exist.
Here, prejudice against people of Pakistani origin/descent would not be considered xenophobia — it would be considered racism.
I actually had the weird experience of being very much an ethnic minority on Saturday afternoon. I'd had to go to this other school to be filmed for a religious studies video (I had to talk about Jesus for like 20 seconds), and afterwards I had to walk down a long road to the bus stop so that I could go home. Almost everyone I saw was of Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi descent, and most of the others were black. All along the road were Indian-style shops selling clothes, food and other items from the Indian subcontinent, and there was a wedding procession coming out of the Gurudwara. It was like being in a totally different country, even though it was actually in Birmingham — it was fascinating!
I wouldn't consider the lady xenophobic. Porthos. The information she gave you was just what I would have added myself.
Normally I am quite pro-PC, but in the end, what you do is more important than what you say. And she was helping this poor family out. _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
I wouldn't consider the lady xenophobic. Porthos. The information she gave you was just what I would have added myself.
Normally I am quite pro-PC, but in the end, what you do is more important than what you say. And she was helping this poor family out.
No. I'm not saying she was xenophobic, but that the fact she even had to mention this in the first place is indicative of how xenophobic a large portion of the U.S. population is toward people from that region. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
About 25% of my school are of Pakistani descent, and then about another 25% are of Indian descent. It's an interesting situation, although the sorts of problems that you might imagine don't actually exist.
Here, prejudice against people of Pakistani origin/descent would not be considered xenophobia — it would be considered racism.
I actually had the weird experience of being very much an ethnic minority on Saturday afternoon. I'd had to go to this other school to be filmed for a religious studies video (I had to talk about Jesus for like 20 seconds), and afterwards I had to walk down a long road to the bus stop so that I could go home. Almost everyone I saw was of Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi descent, and most of the others were black. All along the road were Indian-style shops selling clothes, food and other items from the Indian subcontinent, and there was a wedding procession coming out of the Gurudwara. It was like being in a totally different country, even though it was actually in Birmingham — it was fascinating!
And so very different from what it's like here in Devon! Whereas Birmingham is 70% White, Devon is 99% White. I believe there's about four blacks and seven Asian people in our school of 1500+. In all my time of being here in Devon, I can only admit to having seen about 10 people who are obviously Muslim. It sometimes seems like you're talking about a completely different country when you speak of Birmingham...
About 25% of my school are of Pakistani descent, and then about another 25% are of Indian descent. It's an interesting situation, although the sorts of problems that you might imagine don't actually exist.
Here, prejudice against people of Pakistani origin/descent would not be considered xenophobia — it would be considered racism.
I actually had the weird experience of being very much an ethnic minority on Saturday afternoon. I'd had to go to this other school to be filmed for a religious studies video (I had to talk about Jesus for like 20 seconds), and afterwards I had to walk down a long road to the bus stop so that I could go home. Almost everyone I saw was of Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi descent, and most of the others were black. All along the road were Indian-style shops selling clothes, food and other items from the Indian subcontinent, and there was a wedding procession coming out of the Gurudwara. It was like being in a totally different country, even though it was actually in Birmingham — it was fascinating!
And so very different from what it's like here in Devon! Whereas Birmingham is 70% White, Devon is 99% White. I believe there's about four blacks and seven Asian people in our school of 1500+. In all my time of being here in Devon, I can only admit to having seen about 10 people who are obviously Muslim. It sometimes seems like you're talking about a completely different country when you speak of Birmingham...
In the town where I live (70 000 inhabitants) there was one Black but he has probably left because I haven't seen him for ages.
Yes, my country is definetely monocultural.
Location: San Francisco, Noord-Kalifornië, Noord-Amerika
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:03 am Post subject:
KSa wrote:
In the town where I live (70 000 inhabitants) there was one Black but he has probably left because I haven't seen him for ages.
Yes, my country is definetely monocultural.
Is there a Jewish population at all, in your town?
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
As soon as I had that thought, it struck me that I was jumping to conclusions based on my own preconceptions about what a German "should" look like -- and that it was entirely possible that that person had been born and raised there.
(And perhaps it was my own experience as an army brat that was coloring my thinking -- since I had been stationed in places that historically don't have black populations, like Germany and Japan, I'd gotten used to assuming that any blacks I happened to see there were simply transplanted Americans! But things have changed a lot since I was a kid....) _________________ An apple a day....
In the town where I live (70 000 inhabitants) there was one Black but he has probably left because I haven't seen him for ages.
Yes, my country is definetely monocultural.
Is there a Jewish population at all, in your town?
No. However, before WWII in certain towns/villages of the region where I live Jews made up to 50% of the population. For example the biggest town in eastern Poland, Lublin (100 000 inhabitants at that time, 350 000 now), was populated by Jews in 40%! Moreover, the biggest Jewish Talmudic school Yeshiva was located there and recently (3 weeks ago) it was officially reopened for Jewish community. There will be a synagogue there.
Sadly, vast majority of Lublin Jews were murdered in the nearby Majdanek concentration camp.
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Xenophobia
Porthos wrote:
Here, people refer to Afghanis and Iranians as Arabs also, revealing their complete ignorance of the region and its people, which should be of concern to Americans, as it is the focal point of the majority of American foreign policy and military interventions.
Another popular misconception about Iranian-Americans is that they are of Muslim faith, but a good number of them (at least those living in Los Angeles) practice Judaism, Nestorian Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Sufism, and B'haism.
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
I saw one black person in Poland when I was there last (this?) week, and he could easily not have been Polish. Poland simply isn't a country of immigration at the moment, but that may change in the future.
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
I saw one black person in Poland when I was there last (this?) week
I absolutely loved it — even more so than last time I was there, because this time I got to spend two days in a Polish school, and was actually staying with Polish hosts.
This isn't meant as a criticism, so I hope you aren't offended, but in many ways, Poland seemed to me to be kind of like Britain or Germany maybe about 10 or 20 years ago. My Polish host actually said the same thing when she was staying with me; she also said that she thought that Ukraine is like Poland 20 years ago.
I find that many people in England seem to believe that 'Eastern Europe' is still fundamentally very different from 'Western Europe', and that Poland is a very poor country. My experience is that neither of these common beliefs are true — it's not really all that different. For example, before I went, a woman I know was saying how it would be interesting for me to experience a 'very different' European culture (in Poland), because, in her view, France and Germany (where I've previous stayed with people) aren't very different from England. I no-longer consider her view to be valid — actually, in many ways, I find England to be more similar to Poland than to France.
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Xenophobia
Elaine wrote:
Porthos wrote:
Here, people refer to Afghanis and Iranians as Arabs also, revealing their complete ignorance of the region and its people, which should be of concern to Americans, as it is the focal point of the majority of American foreign policy and military interventions.
Another popular misconception about Iranian-Americans is that they are of Muslim faith, but a good number of them (at least those living in Los Angeles) practice Judaism, Nestorian Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Sufism, and B'haism.
Pretty much the same here. If they're from the Middle East they're Muslim. They're all the same.
Uriel wrote:
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
It still amazes me a bit when I hear a person of dark complexion speak Swedish with no trace of a foreign accent. It happens very rarely, but I recall this one occasion from when I lived in Uppsala and I was at the university library, and this (truly) black guy came to the table next to mine with his female friend. Obviously he was adopted and he spoke in a south Swedish dialect. It was so odd. I know I shouldn't have but I could not help but glare at him.
Last edited by Walker on Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
lol, yes, I know the feeling. It's kind of like:
- Wow, you're like totally....black! Cool!
That many black people and foreigners have problems understanding this naïve, Nordic approach is the reason for all the misunderstanding we are having in the ongoing "neger" debate in Norway. I've read so much English in my life that I've come to view the word "neger" as offensive, but Norwegians who aren't much exposed to English and connect black people primarily with missionary work in Africa do not normally mean to be mean when they use it. For them it just denotes something exotic and far away, just as it did for Astrid Lindgren, when she described Pippi Longstocking's father as a "neger king in the Southern Sea", something which now has been deemed racist and to be censored.
That's OK for me, though I will miss the line "min pappa är negerkung i Sydhavet" in Pippi's lovely Swedish (and the Norwegian country band Hellbillies' "Ein neger stod på Ål stasjon"), but what irritates me is that Norwegians are so moronly historyless that they don't discuss whether we can be called a nation with a colonial past when Denmark-Norway had sugar colonies based on slavery (the current US Virgin Islands) in the 18th century. Sugar was Denmark-Norway's biggest export and guess who we exported it to? Sweden! Their colonial project, Nya Sverige, quickly failed and ended up as Delawere! _________________ Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt, weiß nichts von seiner eigenen. = Those who don't know foreign languages, know nothing of their own. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
Speaking of "neger", I read the other day that a symbolic prohibition against saying the word "nigger/nigga" in NYC had been suggested. Does anyone know more about it? Joanne? Seems like a very futile attempt to me considering how so many (?) young black people use the word "nigga" in their daily speech.
Yes, you're right, NYC symbolically (and so, not legal) banned it last Wednesday for the last day of February, which is Black History Month in the US. New York City bans racial slur.
I see you've been posting more, Walker. Do you finally have regular internet access?? Say that it's so! _________________ "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." ---- Groucho Marx
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Xenophobia
Walker wrote:
Uriel wrote:
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
It still amazes me a bit when I hear a person of dark complexion speak Swedish with no trace of a foreign accent. It happens very rarely, but I recall this one occasion from when I lived in Uppsala and I was at the university library, and this (truly) black guy came to the table next to mine with his female friend. Obviously he was adopted and he spoke in a south Swedish dialect. It was so odd. I know I shouldn't have but I could not help but glare at him.
Glare or stare? I can't picture you glaring at someone! _________________ An apple a day....
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Xenophobia
Joanne wrote:
Hi Walker Long time, no see!
Yes, you're right, NYC symbolically (and so, not legal) banned it last Wednesday for the last day of February, which is Black History Month in the US. New York City bans racial slur.
I see you've been posting more, Walker. Do you finally have regular internet access?? Say that it's so!
Okay, thanks! And yes, it's so!
Uriel wrote:
Walker wrote:
Uriel wrote:
As many black people as I saw in England and France, where they seemed to fit right in, I still can't really imagine black Poles. Even when I was in Germany, seeing a black person speaking German struck me as odd, and I couldn't help but wonder if they might be an American stationed there who had just learned the language.
It still amazes me a bit when I hear a person of dark complexion speak Swedish with no trace of a foreign accent. It happens very rarely, but I recall this one occasion from when I lived in Uppsala and I was at the university library, and this (truly) black guy came to the table next to mine with his female friend. Obviously he was adopted and he spoke in a south Swedish dialect. It was so odd. I know I shouldn't have but I could not help but glare at him.
Glare or stare? I can't picture you glaring at someone!
A bit of both, I think. I was waiting for a guy who was really, really late and I wasn't too happy about sitting there waiting. And I guess my state of mind was somewhat projected onto that black guy for some reason.
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