Actually, I belong to your school of thought as far as dubbing is concerned. For me, one of the pleasures of watching a film is actually its language. I don't think I'd have wanted to watch say, Il Postino or Life is Beautiful if it wasn't in shown in the original Italian. It doesn't matter if the film has won awards for artistic direction or superb cinematograpy. One of the beauties of watching a foreign language film is actually the language itself.
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Actually, I belong to your school of thought as far as dubbing is concerned. For me, one of the pleasures of watching a film is actually its language. I don't think I'd have wanted to watch say, Il Postino or Life is Beautiful if it wasn't in shown in the original Italian. It doesn't matter if the film has won awards for artistic direction or superb cinematograpy. One of the beauties of watching a foreign language film is actually the language itself.
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
La Vita Bella would not have been the same if it were dubbed. I've seen it dubbed and I've seen it with subtitles, and I much prefer the subtitles. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
I think most of those people went to England...The lack of rhoticity might cause some problems as we arrrr extrrrra rrrrhotic.
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
for sure Liz will inform you later, but hungarian isn't a slav language. It's not at all related to those languages, (but with the geographic proximity of them now, it's logic to expect it will be slav of course).
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
Erotic??? Surrrrre, extrrrremely rrrrhotic accents arrrre most prrrobably verrry errrotic!
Pauline is right...Our small nation is the odd-one-out in the middle of an almost homogenious Slavic circle (God bless the Austrians, though), thus we feel a wee dislocated there. Hungarian isn't a Slavic language but a Finno-Ugric one and as such is related to Finnish.(I think I mentioned it on the "Audios" thread when I posted my accent sample.) We have several words which are similar to each other in both languages but still, Finnish and Hungarian aren't mutually intelligible. Those who study Hungarian at university have to learn Finnish. I'm not sure if it's compulsory for students majoring in Finnish in Finland to learn Hungarian but some of them do. There are some Finnish students in Hungary, too, who decided to come here (there?) to learn Hungarian and lots of Hungarians go to Finland to learn Finnish.
I agree with Deborah: your written English is very good (as far as I can judge). Besides, it's a great advantage to know how to use a dictionary. Most people who use a dictionary sometimes end up writing something different from the intended meaning. I myself am prone to do it occassionally, that's why I'm afraid of using dictionaries sometimes. I also happen to use a dictionary whenever I want to do a close reading of Loic's Dickensian prose...or should I compare him to Oscar Wilde instead? Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him
I think I once told Deborah this, but I've never plodded past the first paragraph of Pride and Prejudice. All of those Victorian writers have this thing for verbose prose and I always end up drowning in them. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
However, I have realised that dubbing is esssentially a cultural thing here. For people who have been brought up in societies where it is the norm, they do not bat an eyelid to say, The Nanny in German. What I am actually saying here is that we should abandon our moral posturing by insinuating that dubbing is inherently inferior. Personally, I feel that it is not ideal, but there are so many people out there who would clearly beg to disagree.
Yes. It's just that I personally can't stand anything that's dubbed. I do realize that it's largely a matter of being used to one or the other way of dealing with language in movies/TV.
Quote:
I am the sort of person who always has to read the subtitles even if it's in a language I understand. I'd hence find myself reading the Chinese or Malay subtitles in an English language film; English subtitles in a Chinese film. As a result, I'd never really be able to appreciate the acting nuances in a film; I already have my hands full focussing on reading.
I too always read the subtitles -- even when the spoken language is Swedish. When there's a re-run of a documentary in Swedish they always add Swedish subtitles. About missing out, I can agree that that is what you do in some degree or another when the language is one which you do not speak. For instance, when I watch a movie in Spanish or French I have to focus on reading the subtitles and because of that I might be missing out on some nuances here and there.
Quote:
I spoke to a few Swedish exchange students in my school and I must say that they speak English with what we'd call an american accent. It's probably a Swedish accent or maybe they learnt English the american way, I don't know. I noticed that they spelled English in the american way which would be marked as wrong if they had gone for a say, a secondary school exchange.
Yes, young Swedes are generally pretty influenced by American English. I sure am.
Liz wrote:
Walker wrote:
Erotic? Now, now... oh, extra rhotic! Yes, rolling 'r's is something that I see as characteristic of Slavs when they speak English.
Erotic??? Surrrrre, extrrrremely rrrrhotic accents arrrre most prrrobably verrry errrotic!
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's.
Quote:
Pauline is right...Our small nation is the odd-one-out in the middle of an almost homogenious Slavic circle (God bless the Austrians, though), thus we feel a wee dislocated there. Hungarian isn't a Slavic language but a Finno-Ugric one and as such is related to Finnish.(I think I mentioned it on the "Audios" thread when I posted my accent sample.) We have several words which are similar to each other in both languages but still, Finnish and Hungarian aren't mutually intelligible. Those who study Hungarian at university have to learn Finnish. I'm not sure if it's compulsory for students majoring in Finnish in Finland to learn Hungarian but some of them do. There are some Finnish students in Hungary, too, who decided to come here (there?) to learn Hungarian and lots of Hungarians go to Finland to learn Finnish.
Dear me! I shall have to pay closer attention. I find it a bit strange that students of Hungarian in Hungary have to learn Finnish. I don't know if students of Finnish in Finland have to learn Hungarian either. But if they do... poor Finns! You know, in school they have to learn Swedish.
Quote:
I agree with Deborah: your written English is very good (as far as I can judge).
One tries, you know... (meaning: thanks!)
Quote:
Besides, it's a great advantage to know how to use a dictionary. Most people who use a dictionary sometimes end up writing something different from the intended meaning. I myself am prone to do it occassionally, that's why I'm afraid of using dictionaries sometimes. I also happen to use a dictionary whenever I want to do a close reading of Loic's Dickensian prose...or should I compare him to Oscar Wilde instead? Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him.
How hard can it be? You look up a word and there you go! Just kidding, I see what you mean. For me it's generally just a word here and a word there that I need to look up in a dictionary, and most of the time it's just to get the spelling right. My main problem with dictionaries is that I often get stuck on other words in the dictionary; as I browse through it I'll see a word that for some reason gets my attention, and then I'll see another one that I have to check out and so on. But when I'm here I usually use an online dictionary.
PS. You don't seem to be offended very easily, but sorry if I've been kind of hostile towards you.
I think we're just about done, André, so worry not!
Good!! I've never been able to grasp exactly what you Europeans have against dubbing... _________________ Toe ek jonk was, het ek al die antwoorde geken. Nou verstaan ek nie eens die vrae nie.
I think we're just about done, André, so worry not!
Good!! I've never been able to grasp exactly what you Europeans have against dubbing...
Not all of us André, not all of us...
However, dubbing tends not to be done properly when the original is specifically designed to be a product rather than a piece of art (whatever work of art it may be).
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's.
I'm non-rhotic in English but of course I'm rhotic when I'm speaking Hungarian.
Walker wrote:
Dear me! I shall have to pay closer attention. I find it a bit strange that students of Hungarian in Hungary have to learn Finnish. I don't know if students of Finnish in Finland have to learn Hungarian either. But if they do... poor Finns! You know, in school they have to learn Swedish.
Why do you find it strange? Students of French have to learn Latin, don't they?
Walker wrote:
PS. You don't seem to be offended very easily, but sorry if I've been kind of hostile towards you.
I wasn't sure if you were taking the mick or being hostile. If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...if you are sorry why you've been hostile? So, you regret it now... _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
I'm non-rhotic in English but of course I'm rhotic when I'm speaking Hungarian.
That you are.
Liz wrote:
Why do you find it strange?
Because Finnish and Hungarian are two different languages, no matter if they're related to one another.
Liz wrote:
Students of French have to learn Latin, don't they?
I don't know, you tell me.
Liz wrote:
If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...
Isn't that how it usually works? At least that's what my parents taught me.
Liz wrote:
if you are sorry why you've been hostile?
You see, for most people being sorry is a consequence of having done something bad or inappropriate. Thus, the sorry-part doesn't come until after the bad or inappropriate whatever it may be has been done.
If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...
Isn't that how it usually works? At least that's what my parents taught me.
Liz wrote:
if you are sorry why you've been hostile?
You see, for most people being sorry is a consequence of having done something bad or inappropriate. Thus, the sorry-part doesn't come until after the bad or inappropriate whatever it may be has been done.
Liz wrote:
So, you regret it now...
Not anymore.
Now I'm apologising. Sorry for my screwed-up sentences...I was totally knackered, so I had better not post anything last night. I hope you aren't offended.
I know it works that way and that's natural to me, too. I just wanted to know what made you change your mind. Anyway, although you have been a bit testy at times, I don't think you were really hostile. I'm asking you because YOU said that you had been hostile towards me. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Now I'm apologising. Sorry for my screwed-up sentences...I was totally knackered, so I had better not post anything last night. I hope you aren't offended.
No, I'm fine!
Liz wrote:
I know it works that way and that's natural to me, too. I just wanted to know what made you change your mind. Anyway, although you have been a bit testy at times, I don't think you were really hostile. I'm asking you because YOU said that you had been hostile towards me.
Maybe I wasn't hostile then. But testy, I'll admit to that! Why did I change my mind? I guess I realized you hadn't deserved it.
As far as I'm aware you haven't been given an official welcome to the forum. So...
Dammit, don't kiss and make up NOW -- I was having fun reading you two!
(And by the way, I think Walker was all tongue in cheek -- but I thought Liz was, too. The banter was incredibly amusing!) _________________ An apple a day....
Dammit, don't kiss and make up NOW -- I was having fun reading you two!
(And by the way, I think Walker was all tongue in cheek -- but I thought Liz was, too. The banter was incredibly amusing!)
Of course I was, too!
I was a bit surprised when Walker used the word "hostile" to describe his own attitude towards me. I've also thought of it as a lighthearted banter. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Last edited by Liz on Wed May 30, 2007 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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I also happen to use a dictionary whenever I want to do a close reading of Loic's Dickensian prose...or should I compare him to Oscar Wilde instead? Jane Austin came to mind first but I don't want to effeminate him. 
Wait a minute! Your're non-rhotic and your 'r's aren't rolling 'r's. 
If you've really been hostile towards me then why you are apologising now...if you are sorry why you've been hostile? 
