Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: Holy Quest to find the Fountain of Life
Me and a friend of mine are going to Ireland tomorrow. I've only had Guinness from a bottle or a can before (except for once in Gothenburg) so we know one important thing that we must and will indulge ourselves in. However, has anyone possibly any suggestions as to which places one might enjoy visiting? We'll be in Dublin the first couple of days but we have no specific plans beyond that. Cork is supposed to be interesting. One of my mates visited Galway when he lived in Ireland and he thought it was nice. I have only nine days in total so I won't be able to go everywhere and see everything, but I hope to see something more than Dublin.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Holy Quest to find the Fountain of Life
Walker wrote:
However, has anyone possibly any suggestions as to which places one might enjoy visiting? We'll be in Dublin the first couple of days but we have no specific plans beyond that. Cork is supposed to be interesting. One of my mates visited Galway when he lived in Ireland and he thought it was nice. I have only nine days in total so I won't be able to go everywhere and see everything, but I hope to see something more than Dublin.
You'll probably want to spend about two or three days at the most in Dublin, I'd imagine. I haven't been there for about eight years, but it's supposed to have changed a lot recently — it used to be quite run-down, but it's recently become a lot wealthier, and now has a huge immigrant population.
As for where else to go, your friend is right that Galway is very nice. Cork is also interesting, and is near to Blarney Castle, with the famous Blarney stone — you have to hang yourself upside-down and kiss it in order to receive the special gift of eloquent speech. Cahir is also nice if you like large castles. Limerick and Kilkenny are also worth visiting if you're around that area.
And of course, there's also places like Belfast and Derry/Londonderry — both of which are places I'd like to visit sometime, although I'm not sure if it would really be a 'holiday' as such.
How are you planning on travelling around Ireland? The trains in Ireland aren't brilliant and tend to go only to the larger towns, whilst often the nicest parts of the country are in rather more remote rural areas.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Holy Quest to find the Fountain of Life
Benjamin wrote:
Walker wrote:
However, has anyone possibly any suggestions as to which places one might enjoy visiting? We'll be in Dublin the first couple of days but we have no specific plans beyond that. Cork is supposed to be interesting. One of my mates visited Galway when he lived in Ireland and he thought it was nice. I have only nine days in total so I won't be able to go everywhere and see everything, but I hope to see something more than Dublin.
You'll probably want to spend about two or three days at the most in Dublin, I'd imagine. I haven't been there for about eight years, but it's supposed to have changed a lot recently — it used to be quite run-down, but it's recently become a lot wealthier, and now has a huge immigrant population.
Yes, I think we'll be in Dublin for a couple of days and then we'll move on. From what I've heard Dublin is (still) pretty dirty compared to here.
Quote:
As for where else to go, your friend is right that Galway is very nice. Cork is also interesting, and is near to Blarney Castle, with the famous Blarney stone — you have to hang yourself upside-down and kiss it in order to receive the special gift of eloquent speech. Cahir is also nice if you like large castles. Limerick and Kilkenny are also worth visiting if you're around that area.
Yes, I've heard of that stone! Maybe I'll go and see it.
Quote:
And of course, there's also places like Belfast and Derry/Londonderry — both of which are places I'd like to visit sometime, although I'm not sure if it would really be a 'holiday' as such.
Yes, Belfast would be very interesting.
Quote:
How are you planning on travelling around Ireland? The trains in Ireland aren't brilliant and tend to go only to the larger towns, whilst often the nicest parts of the country are in rather more remote rural areas.
By train or bus, or both, I reckon. If there's no train to where we want to go there has to be a bus that goes there, but if there isn't I guess we'll hitchhike or something!
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: Holy Quest to find the Fountain of Life
Walker wrote:
Yes, Belfast would be very interesting.
The 'peace lines' in Belfast:
It's tragic. There are 40 of these — they are over 7m high, and in total are more than 21km long.
Walker wrote:
By train or bus, or both, I reckon. If there's no train to where we want to go there has to be a bus that goes there, but if there isn't I guess we'll hitchhike or something!
I'll worn you now that Irish public services are a bit substandard — you might be better off hiring a car, if you can drive.
Not to be a wet blanket, but I really don't see what's so attractive about that black tonic, Guinness. It's a bitter ale and it lives up to its name in tasting like liquefied ashtray.
But I am jolly envious that you are going to Ireland! Bon Voyage and well, do give us a summary of your holiday when you are back. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Not to be a wet blanket, but I really don't see what's so attractive about that black tonic, Guinness. It's a bitter ale and it lives up to its name in tasting like liquefied ashtray.
Noooo, Guinness tastes fine!
HAVE A GOOD JOURNEY, WALKER!!!!
Don't overindulge in Guinness unless you want to take part in the latest Guinness record attempt. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
I can't describe the trip in few words. It went so quickly and now it almost feels like the whole thing was just a dream. We spent the first three days in Dublin. One purpose with the trip was to hear Irish English, and Éireann welcomed us with a real treat. The bus driver that drove the bus from the airport to Dublin had the voice of Popeye and spoke in a dialect that wasn't of this world. We could hardly understand a word he said when he was talking to other Irishmen and we were damn close to bursting with laughter. Needless to say, we kept saying "argh!" like a pirate/sailor during the rest of the trip.
Central Dublin. As soon as I saw that old geezer that wears a hat I knew I had to a take picture of him, but unfortunataly I wasn't fast enough with my camera. However, he's still in the picture. I wish I'd taken more photos of classic old-timers (believe me, there were quite a few of them).
A street next to Litton Lane where our hostel was.
We spent day 4 and 5 in County Wicklow that's just south of Dublin.
Main Street in Wicklow. This photo is a bit blurred but you can still get an idea of what it looked like.
A street in Wicklow.
Turning around I saw this.
I think these two are a bit funny. The first one is a school and the sign in the second photo says "Road Unsafe for Horse Caravans".
In Ireland we traveled almost exclusively by bus and it worked just fine - except for once. That night in Wicklow we went to a village nearby called Ashford to meet up with a Swedish girl whom we'd met on the plane. We only saw her for about 15 min since she had work the next day and had to sleep. We ended up walking back to Wicklow about 6 km since the bus never showed up. After a day and a half in Wicklow (population: just under 7000) we went westwards through County Wicklow to Rathdrum (population: approx. 6500).
I took this picture as we walked a long uphill slope that led to the center of Rathdrum.
A street in Rathdrum.
The supermarket.
A house by the railway station.
The Railway.
When we'd first checked in at the hostel in Rathdrum (pronounced "redrum") and sat down in the lounge we just laughed after a moment of silence. We were pretty much the only guests there. It had been fully booked the night before due to the Special Olympics. Now we wondered (without saying it out loud) what we where going to do there. Having been in Wicklow/Ashford we felt like meeting some people but the place seemed more or less deserted. Also, at the supermarket in Wicklow we'd asked a cashier about Rathrum:
-So what can you do in Rathrum?
-Nothing...
-But what do you think of it?
-It's kind of rough.
-Rough? How?
-The people...
-Oh...
-Just a word of advice.
In Rathrum we talked to a man and asked him about the pubs, and he thought we should go to The Railway. That night turned out to be one of the best nights during the whole trip. They had karaoke night that night (it was Sunday) and everybody was there. Not many people got up and sang but that's beside the point. When I say "everybody" I mean everybody. There were young people and old people and those inbetween. I'd heard from my friend who lived in Dublin for some time that people in Ireland dress badly, and if what I'd previously seen didn't confirm this, the night at The Railway did. 19-year-old girls dressed like old women. Anyway, the atmosphere was great. In Sweden, if an older fellow goes to a place where young people hang out he'll be considered a dirty old man. But that was not the case here. Everybody got along. One person there worth mentioning was a man named Peter. He was a bit like the village fool. He must've been about 50 or so and at least three of his teeth were missing. At first I thought he was just drunk, but I think there was more to it. He danced and played air bass the whole evening and apparently he had a marvelous time. He was never in your face or anything, and people just ignored him. But it wasn't like here, where people will turn away in disgust whenever such a person comes near, and where you can see how they think "don't come near me!!" even though they try to hide it. They ignored Peter, but they also accepted him. The karaoke guys even let him sing along to Waterloo - he never bothered with trying to read the lyrics on the screen, though; all you heard from him was "wa ah ah ah" in the chorus. That was kind of sweet. Also, we were the only tourists there which truly added to the genuine experience. One of the songs played and sung that night was a song about the Easter Rising, and after that song people applauded. Later we joked (amongst ourselves) by saying that we wished that somebody would occupy and oppress us as well, so that we too would get some good music. *sigh*
After our stay in redrum we went back to Dublin and went from there to Galway where we spent three days. Everybody, both tourists and Irishmen, thought we should go there.
I forget the name of this street but it led to Eyre Square in central Galway.
The Burren. The wall that goes up that hill doesn't and never did serve any purpose. Poor Irish farmers were made to build it (them, actually) in the 1800s by the English. The only purpose was to keep the Irish, who were then treated like second-class citizens, occupied with something.
The Cliffs of Moher.
After Galway I went back to Dublin and spent my last night there before going home.
A closer look at my partner in crime (I don't think he'd mind very much).
Dublin and Galway were very different. As soon as you came to Galway you could see the difference in standard; Dublin was pretty run-down and dirty. Galway was more like home, not only more well-kept and clean but people seemed more trendy there. They dressed better. Another thing about the people there was that they looked at you more than they did in Dublin, which is why I felt slightly more relaxed in Dublin.
One thing that surprised us somewhat was their obsession with concrete. We saw so many concrete houses - that didn't have any plaster or anything. The outside walls were just plain gray concrete. We saw at least one small cathedral that was built this way. I realize that it takes more time and money to build with bricks, but damn!
Ireland is indeed very green. Half an hour to an hour south of Dublin by bus and you're in a different world. It was beautiful. The weather was nice most of the time. The days in Galway were almost too hot, actually.
I also wish I'd taken some more photos of streets and houses. Both Wicklow and Rathdrum were very picturesque with their little houses in different colors and their small front doors that were either in green, red or blue and sometimes in yellow. The pubs and some shops in Dublin and Galway also looked like that. Like a fairy-tale world where all the houses look like they were built for dwarves.
Of course one great thing about travelling (as we all know) is the people you meet (not all of them, but many). Staying at hostels is a great way of meeting new people, although none of them - in this case - was Irish. For instance, I can tell you that on my last evening in Galway we met two very nice American girls both of which I was very happy to meet (at that point almost all the other Americans we'd met/come across had been the kind you just want to run away from).
We listened to live music several times. One night in Dublin there were two middle-aged men who sang and played guitar. It was fun to see people of all ages have fun - in the same pub. Especially so with the middle-aged people; here they often have that slight look of desperation and terror in their eyes but there it was totally different. After a while one of the musicians took up a banjo and what they played was hilarious. It was that tune from Deliverance, you know where that man teaches a retarded banjo-playing boy who sits on a porch to play a tune, and the boy turns out to be super good. We heard a lot of Irish folk music and some other kinds of music, but we always wondered what the real young Irish people listened to, and where they went; there were quite a few other tourists at most places we went to, and we talked about riding a bus to some suburb to see what people there were up to. That never happened, though. However, on my last night in Dublin I walked for a bit and came outside the center of the city. I didn't hear any music but I saw houses and people that looked pretty working-class, and I sort of thought that this must probably be it. You could hear people whistle to each other, there were teenagers hanging around with nothing to do. In doorways there were worn-out-looking mothers who wore old sweatpants and watched their kids who played in the street with half-broken toys. It wasn't too appealling an area but it was interesting to see it.
Last edited by Walker on Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
One thing that surprised us somewhat was their obsession with concrete. We saw so many concrete houses - that didn't have any plaster or anything. The outside walls were just plain gray concrete.
That's so true. When you drive around the Irish countryside, there are many detached houses where it seems that people have bought a field, and then built a house with concrete or breeze-blocks, and then without doing anything with the garden either.
Walker wrote:
However, on my last night in Dublin I walked for a bit and came outside the center of the city. I didn't hear any music but I saw houses and people that looked pretty working-class, and I sort of thought that this must probably be it. You could hear people whistle to each other, there were teenagers hanging around with nothing to do. In doorways there were worn-out-looking mothers who wore old sweatpants and watched their kids who played in the street with half-broken toys. It wasn't too appealling an area but it was interesting to see it.
Ah yes. Despite having either the second or fourth (depending on how it's counted) highest GDP per capita in the world, Ireland apparently also has the largest gap between the rich and the poor out of any 'developped country'. It must've improved though — the first time I went to Dublin, there were disabled children begging on the streets.
the first time I went to Dublin, there were disabled children begging on the streets.
There were quite a few beggars in Dublin, let me tell you. Mainly adults but I also saw children begging. Most beggars were Gypsies but I was surprised to see that so many of the beggars were white. And they hardly ever came at you; they just sat there with a paper cup up in the air and said nothing. However, two white male beggars did come up to me and one of them, after I'd said that I didn't have any change, politely said "I'm sorry for disturbing you. Have a nice evening" and walked away. The other one said something similar, but shorter, and kept walking. I saw one old Gypsy woman in Dublin and the sight of her and the baby she held was just awful. If the baby wasn't already dead it was close to being dead.
Well, I think that that demonstrates that the Scottish National Party could do better than to 'copy Ireland', as they frequently suggest. They often talk of an 'arc of prosperity' surrounding Scotland — the idea is that Ireland, Iceland and Norway are all very rich and prosperous, whilst Scotland is poor and run-down. However, it seems that, whilst few would doubt that Scotland is a bit dodgy as well, and that its GDP per capita is much lower than that of Ireland, the rich/poor gap is nowhere near as bad in Scotland as in Ireland.
By the way, some of the white beggars could have been Irish Travellers — an established traditionally nomadic people mainly in Ireland (but in some other countries) who often have very poor standards of living compared to the rest of the population.
However, it seems that, whilst few would doubt that Scotland is a bit dodgy as well, and that its GDP per capita is much lower than that of Ireland, the rich/poor gap is nowhere near as bad in Scotland as in Ireland.
I would much rather have a large rich-poor disparity, if it meant that the average person was wealthier, that a higher percentage of the population reached middle-class status and owned property, etc, and that there was fewer poverty in the country, than a lack of all those, just so we could deprive the rich from being richer than us, or that we could say that the rich-poor gap was smaller. A lot of people become alarmed at the idea of the rich owning a greater percentage of national wealth than before. I don't see that as inherently bad, as long as everyone else gets their piece of the growing pie. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
I would much rather have a large rich-poor disparity, if it meant that the average person was wealthier, that a higher percentage of the population reached middle-class status and owned property, etc, and that there was fewer poverty in the country,
That doesn't seem to be what's happened in Ireland though. Some mythical 'average' Irish person may be wealthier than an 'average' Danish person, for example. However, if you ignored, say, the top 5% richest people in both countries, I suspect that you'd find that the average Danish person would be wealthier than the average Irish person.
Firstly Walker, that was a very entertaining as well as an educational observation of Ireland. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
It appears to me that begging is endemic and that this pheomenon cannot be eradicated. In Singapore, it is actually illegal to beg. All homeless tramps are taken care of by the ministry of home affairs and as a result, I am always stumped whenever I run into street beggars overseas. In Thailand, barefooted children would crowd around your vehicle as you are bogged down in a gridlock, selling you trinkets and garlands of flowers which you obviously have no need for. You'd try to avoid gazing into their soulful liquid eyes and resist the temptation to dip into your pockets for to give succour to one would open up a floodgate of other children beggars.
Ireland is a country that was still poor a generation ago. It is natural that wealth has not trickled down evenly nor has the largesse of the booming economy been spread more equitably or fast enough. I am sure the re-elected Taoiseach would address this problem with greater urgency. But one thing is for sure: the average Irishman is definitely better off 20 years ago. The model for Ireland's economic success was her willingness to engage with the world economy. Can Benjamin suggest an alternative model which would have guaranteed the same rate of economic growth?
Do not make a fallacy of comparing Ireland with any of the home country. If you want to engage in any meaningful kind of comparison, do a trend analysis and examine how average household incomes have rocketed virtually overnight.
PS: By the way Walker, I find that comment about '19 year old girls dressed as old women' pretty hilarious. What do you mean by that anyway? Were they dressed as peasants?
It is also cool that people of all ages mingle freely without any sort of 'ageist' prejudice that is endemic amongst the young. In Singapore, we would have thought the same if we spot a middle-aged man skulking in a club or bar that caters mostly to the twenty something clientale. It would be worse if a nubile 20 something year old girl is wrapped around him like an eel. We would then not be too far off the mark in confering upon him the dubious distinction of being a Dirty Old Man. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
By the way Walker, I find that comment about '19 year old girls dressed as old women' pretty hilarious. What do you mean by that anyway? Were they dressed as peasants?
They dressed in a way that looked extremely out of fashion, as if they'd been digging in their (grand)mothers' closets. Like one girl, she wore a dress that was white with some kind of flowery things in green on it. The colors and patterns reminded me of a curtain from 1980 or something. They weren't dressed like peasants at all. They were dressed up, only their clothes looked very out of style and a little weird. I later saw similar clothes in shop-windows so I gather that they weren't badly dressed according to Irish standards. But still, on the whole, the looked as if they hadn't been paying much attention to the current trends. It was as if they tried a little too hard with the dressing up part, and the result wasn't great. I found nothing wrong with it, though. It was only charming. They didn't all dress like that, though. One girl that my friend talked to (who'd thought we were Poles for some reason) wore a white top and regular jeans i.e. looked totally 'normal'.
BTW, apparently Poles constitute the largest minority in Ireland.
My house is made out of slump block, which is a concrete brick. It's the same boring gray as most concrete, but at least it tries to look like brick. We have lots of houses in town made out of actual concrete blocks, but those are always painted various colors, like regular wooden houses. (Well, regular for here. I guess Europeans think making houses out of wood is a little odd. But we only make fences out of stone in New Mexico, it seems!) _________________ An apple a day....
I liked your description of Ireland. I almost felt like I was there whilst reading it. I sort of envy you, thus I'm likely to turn into emerald green like Ireland in no time.
I wanted to ask you a question but Deborah was quicker than me.
Just like in the US (I don't know much about it but I belive Deborah of course),
the grandma closet revival enjoys it's heyday in Hungary, too.
_________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
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