I oppose language evolution towards the wrong direction
What do you mean by the wrong direction? Languages are constantly changing and it's natural. People always tend to think that younger generations speak "badly". If it was the case, you wouldn't speak Polish or English now.
The type of language you use now and consider "correct" or even a bit "old-fashioned" used to be "bad" language and the indicator of language evolution towards the "wrong direction".
(Don't read my answer if you were being tongue-in-cheek. ) _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Liz,
Note that I blinked my eye.
OK, I agree that the direction languages are evolving is to some degree unpredictible and not dependent on us. We can't even help if this direction will lead to the severe simplification. The language is a communication tool and we know that even significantly simplified languages can suffice to communicate. Still I remain a strong supporter of what I call "richness of language".
So when I see when the language is deprived of this richness by (for example) using this:
So when I see when the language is deprived of this richness by (for example) using this:
I am very and then
and finally I
If it weren't for the emoticons...I think we should we should blame André... And look at him like or or . However, you can't use these s whilst because they are visual images. Where words fail, music speaks or or or , too. You can't paint or draw on internet forums, can you? _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
only when I want to express my opposition towards progressing simplification of the language.
So essentially you're a reactionary who feels that it's necessary to oppose language evolution?
I wouldn't call KSa a "reactionary". I'd call him a normal human being who happens to express his opinion.
I hope you'll forgive me for stealing and chopping up your post like this.
Liz wrote:
Languages are constantly changing and it's natural.
Does that mean that we should start emptying our vocabulary? Refilling it, you say? With what? It's getting more Swenglish by the day!
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People always tend to think that younger generations speak "badly".
And what makes you the exception?
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The type of language you use now and consider "correct" or even a bit "old-fashioned" used to be "bad" language and the indicator of language evolution towards the "wrong direction".
That's true. But that doesn't mean that I find the way some people talk these days pleasant. It's one thing that teenage boys sound like they're drunk when they talk; most of them will grow out of it. What's more bothering is the influx of English words which turn Swedish into Swenglish.
I have nothing against slang as long as it's not used all the time, and as long as they're not new ugly and incomprehensible slang words from Stockholm, of course!
In my first response to the question about whether using the possessive + gerund combination was old-fashioned, I allowed for the possibility that it might be. That was because I have very little conversation with young people, and I didn't want to make an assumption. However, after reading the responses here, my conclusion is that it is not an old-fashioned construction.
KSa, in the US we often throw in old-fashioned expressions for color or humor, but this construction isn't an example of that.
Yeah, actually, I find myself agreeing with you! After thinking about it, I really do use such constructions in my speech, but I would say that it's a bit more formal, and not a common construction among people my age. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
I'm no exception. Besides, I wasn't talking about myself - I was just trying to point out that people have always thought that language is "rotting" and if it really had been the case, those languages would have been dead.
Is the state of the Swedish language is so worrying? If so, I feel sorry for you and I hope you won't go Swenglish.
Walker wrote:
I have nothing against slang as long as it's not used all the time
I agree. It can be very annoying if someone is using slang in situations when formal language is required. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
I'm no exception. Besides, I wasn't talking about myself - I was just trying to point out that people have always thought that language is "rotting" and if it really had been the case, those languages would have been dead.
Yes, but what do you think? Since you're no exception I take it that you do think little of how some people speak these days, or on how languages "develop".
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Is the state of the Swedish language is so worrying? If so, I feel sorry for you and I hope you won't go Swenglish.
Yes, but what do you think? Since you're no exception I take it that you do think little of how some people speak these days, or on how languages "develop".
I also tend to think that, say, teenagers use weird words, some of which I can't understand. At the same time, I accept that language is changing. I don't know about Swedish but Hungarian is far from being in danger of extinction.
Säjva wants to be "save"? LOL! What is "fejka"? "Sajt" means "cheese" in Hungarian. What does it mean in Swedish? I can't identify some of the words as English words (e.g. curlingförälder). We also have some good ones: fájl, kompjúter, szpré, plébek (also palyback), bájt, menedzser - these are older ones which are part of the Hungarian language. However, newer ones seem weird as they are written in the English way. There are fashionable English names too, some of them are spelt according to the rules of Hungarian ortography like Dzsennifer (= Jennifer) and Dézi (= Daisy). They look weird, especially the first one.
Walker wrote:
How would you define such a situation, anyway?
Job interviews, exams, presentations and many other situations where formal language is required. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
I also tend to think that, say, teenagers use weird words, some of which I can't understand. At the same time, I accept that language is changing. I don't know about Swedish but Hungarian is far from being in danger of extinction.
I don't know if Swedish is facing extinction, but it changes and I'm not so sure it's for the better. It gets simplified and many words that were used not so long ago are hardly used anymore. For instance, there are many words that begin with för e.g. förstämd, försmĺ, försvära, förlikna, förlusta, that no one uses anymore, except old people. I recall my grandmother saying a för-word some time ago, and I didn't know what it meant.
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Säjva wants to be "save"? LOL!
Yep! I guess it could be spelled sejva as well. I googled and found more säjva than sejva.
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What is "fejka"? "Sajt" means "cheese" in Hungarian. What does it mean in Swedish?
Fejk means "fake" and sajt means "site" as in "website". They're simply the words "fake" and "site" written in Swedish. To make a verb out of one of those words we just add an 'a', like fejka - to "fake".
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I can't identify some of the words as English words (e.g. curlingförälder).
Curlingförälder/föräldrar was coined by a Danish psychologist, and it refers to parents who're overprotective of their children, or at least involve themselves a lot in their childrens' lives. It's called "helicopter parents" in American English.
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We also have some good ones: fájl, kompjúter, szpré, plébek (also palyback), bájt, menedzser - these are older ones which are part of the Hungarian language. However, newer ones seem weird as they are written in the English way. There are fashionable English names too, some of them are spelt according to the rules of Hungarian ortography like Dzsennifer (= Jennifer) and Dézi (= Daisy). They look weird, especially the first one.
They do look weird. Do you pronounce them the way you would when you speak English?
Kompjúter is pretty obvious. Fájl and bájt look like "fail" and "bait". As for the other ones I have no idea (I don't know what "palyback" is).
They do look weird. Do you pronounce them the way you would when you speak English?
Only approximately - with a pronounced Hungarian accent (trilled r-s and the like). Only those pronounce it exactly in the English way who want to show off (more and more people - it's becoming de rigueur LOL).
Walker wrote:
Kompjúter is pretty obvious. Fájl and bájt look like "fail" and "bait". As for the other ones I have no idea (I don't know what "palyback" is).
bájt = bite
fájl = file ---> they both are used in both ways (English, Hungarian) in Hungarian IT jargon
"Playback" means that the singer doesn't actually sing in a concert but only makes as if - recorded songs are played back, hence the expression "playback". _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
bájt = bite
fájl = file ---> they both are used in both ways (English, Hungarian) in Hungarian IT jargon
We actually use the Swedish word for "file". But we say "byte".
Liz wrote:
"Playback" means that the singer doesn't actually sing in a concert but only makes as if - recorded songs are played back, hence the expression "playback".
Aha, playback! You wrote "palyback". Yeah, we, too, say "playback".
We actually use the Swedish word for "file". But we say "byte".
Sorry...it's byte. I wrote "bite".
Walker wrote:
Aha, playback! You wrote "palyback". Yeah, we, too, say "playback".
LOL! I didn't even notice it! It's the second prime example of me being some sort of a functional illiterate or just simply dysgraphic and a careless speller, too.
PS: "Second prime example" sounds odd, but I don't care. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Don't worry about Swenglish, Walker -- it goes both ways! Here in the southwest we've borrowed so heavily from Spanish we forget that they're not the usual English words! I think you'd have most of us scratching our heads if pressed to find an Anglo-Saxon equivalent for arroyo or mesa, and we know that those hot peppers we down constantly are spelled chile, while that chili stuff is a concoction made in Texas. (And that bastardized chilli would be downright unpronounceable to us, since we all know two wrongs don't make a right, but two L's make a Y...) We also go down the street to "put gas" (direct translation of "poner gasolina", and we don't get out of a car, we "get down" (Spanish: bajar). Easterners have no idea what we're talking about.
And of course, our neighbors across the fenceline can be excused from driving around in carros and trocas (cars and trucks) instead of coches and camionetas.... _________________ An apple a day....
Hungarian "sajt" is pronounced exactly the same as the British English word "shite" (=shit).
I had to laugh when my Hungarian friend said to me "Want some sajt?" holding a piece of cheese on his open palm. _________________ Zoriona tximelata bat bezalakoa da: bilatzen baduzu, hegaldatuko besterik ez da, baina gelditzen bazara, dator eta zure sorbaldan jartzen da.
Hungarian "sajt" is pronounced exactly the same as the British English word "shite" (=shit).
Well, it depends on what English dialect you speak. If you speak, say, Cockney(-ish) or Brummie it is almost the same: ʃɒɪt. If you speak RP or something close to it or even General American, it's not the same.
Daniel wrote:
I had to laugh when my Hungarian friend said to me "Want some sajt?" holding a piece of cheese on his open palm.
My roommate's Bristish ex-boyfriend was doing it all the time in Hungarian restaurants and he was happy to reiterate the word all the time without causing public outrage. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Don't worry about Swenglish, Walker -- it goes both ways! Here in the southwest we've borrowed so heavily from Spanish we forget that they're not the usual English words! I think you'd have most of us scratching our heads if pressed to find an Anglo-Saxon equivalent for arroyo or mesa, and we know that those hot peppers we down constantly are spelled chile, while that chili stuff is a concoction made in Texas. (And that bastardized chilli would be downright unpronounceable to us, since we all know two wrongs don't make a right, but two L's make a Y...) We also go down the street to "put gas" (direct translation of "poner gasolina", and we don't get out of a car, we "get down" (Spanish: bajar). Easterners have no idea what we're talking about.
And of course, our neighbors across the fenceline can be excused from driving around in carros and trocas (cars and trucks) instead of coches and camionetas....
You know, sometimes I can't remember a word in Swedish but the English word pops up immetiately. What's one to make of that? Hehe, do you say "get down of a car" or "get down from a car"? Well, I guess it's alright as long as the cops don't start talking like that.
Driver: What seems to be the problem, officer?
Cop: Can I see your license and registration, please?
Driver: Sure.
Cop: I'm gonna have to ask you to step down of/from the vehicle right now.
Driver: What?
Cop: One last time. Step down of/from the vehicle!
Driver: But I don't und...
BANG!!
Daniel wrote:
Hungarian "sajt" is pronounced exactly the same as the British English word "shite" (=shit).
I had to laugh when my Hungarian friend said to me "Want some sajt?" holding a piece of cheese on his open palm.
Daniel. An adectote from Ireland here, if you don't mind. One night in Galway we went to a club called Cuba. Naturally I wanted to hear some Irish, being in Ireland and everything, and I found an opportunity to possibly hear some when I visited the men's room at that club. I was somewhat intoxicated and thus I had the balls to clear me troat and ask "does anybody here speak Irish?". There were a bunch of guys there and one guy answered "yeah! why?". I explained that I wanted to learn some words or phrases to tell my friends once I was back home. He started rattling off sentence after sentence, stuff that I couldn't possibly remember. One thing he said, that I already knew, was póg mo thóin. Later, when the place was closing and the lights had been turned on and we were about to leave, I felt a pat on my shoulder. I turned around and a guy I'd never seen before said "what he taught you in Irish was a load of shite".
Last edited by Walker on Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:50 am; edited 2 times in total
You know, sometimes I can't remember a word in Swedish but the English word pops up immetiately. What's one to make of that? Hehe, do you say "get down of a car" or "get down from a car"? Well, I guess it's alright as long as the cops don't start talking like that.
Driver: What seems to be the problem, officer?
Cop: Can I see your license and registration, please?
Driver: Sure.
Cop: I'm gonna have to ask you to step down of/from the vehicle right now.
Driver: What?
Cop: One last time. Step down of/from the vehicle!
Driver: But I don't und...
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and then 
or 
. However, you can't use these 
because they are visual images. Where words fail, music speaks or 
, too. You can't paint or draw on internet forums, can you? 
But we say "byte".
My roommate's Bristish ex-boyfriend was doing it all the time in Hungarian restaurants and he was happy to reiterate the word all the time without causing public outrage. 