Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: What happened to the Maya?
This is one of history's greatest enigmas. What happend to this flourishing civilization? It was one of the most advanced, and artistically accomplished civilizations of its time, and its cities were some of the largest in the world. At its height, there were over 10 million people in the region. Today, 1500 years later, and in the midst of the earth's greatest population boom, there are only 360,000 people in the same area!
The evidence seems to suggest that it was a slow, gradual decline, rather than a catastrophic event like the plague or a meteorite that was responsible for the dissappearance of the civilization. At one point, people just seemed to have abandoned the cities for the jungle, and dispersed into small tribal units who lived in huts. Some have suggested that constant warfare and internal strife was responsible for all of this. Other theories include overpopulation, or drought.
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: Re: What happened to the Maya?
Porthos wrote:
This is one of history's greatest enigmas. What happend to this flourishing civilization? It was one of the most advanced, and artistically accomplished civilizations of its time, and its cities were some of the largest in the world. At its height, there were over 10 million people in the region. Today, 1500 years later, and in the midst of the earth's greatest population boom, there are only 360,000 people in the same area!
The evidence seems to suggest that it was a slow, gradual decline, rather than a catastrophic event like the plague or a meteorite that was responsible for the dissappearance of the civilization. At one point, people just seemed to have abandoned the cities for the jungle, and dispersed into small tribal units who lived in huts. Some have suggested that constant warfare and internal strife was responsible for all of this. Other theories include overpopulation, or drought.
What do you think caused the fall of the Maya?
I would not romanticize this civilization so much. Let's not forget about cruel human sacrifice.
The fall of Maya was caused by a number of factors: foreign invasions, internal crisis, revolts, decadence, epidemics, climate change etc.
I think it was a combination of factors that lead to the gradual decline of the Mayan civilization: climate change, loss of faith, warfare, etc. Evidence suggests that long periods of severe droughts in that region cut off fresh water resources, resulting in widespread crop failures and food depletion. When the supposedly omnipotent rulers of the city-states failed to deliver much needed rainfall, they lost face among their people and those people began scattering into the jungles where the food supply was more abundant.
One article I read said that these weakened rulers tried in vain to hold on to their power by warring with rival city-states and systematically kidnapping those who were royal born to offer up as blood sacrifices to the gods. As you can imagine, this policy left many city-states without a ruling class, resulting in a drastic breakdown of infrastructure. The general populace was left to fend for itself and the city-states disbanded into the wilderness.
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:
This doesn't have anything to do with the demise of the Mayan civilization, but it's something interesting I learned from watching the Planet Earth series. The Yucatan peninsula is notably lacking in surface water; it's primary source of fresh water is the feature known as the cenote, which is a subterranean chamber filled with permanent water. The Yucatan abounds in cenotes. Some are vertical shafts and some are in caverns. Here's more information about them:
I think it was a combination of factors that lead to the gradual decline of the Mayan civilization: climate change, loss of faith, warfare, etc. Evidence suggests that long periods of severe droughts in that region cut off fresh water resources, resulting in widespread crop failures and food depletion. When the supposedly omnipotent rulers of the city-states failed to deliver much needed rainfall, they lost face among their people and those people began scattering into the jungles where the food supply was more abundant.
One article I read said that these weakened rulers tried in vain to hold on to their power by warring with rival city-states and systematically kidnapping those who were royal born to offer up as blood sacrifices to the gods. As you can imagine, this policy left many city-states without a ruling class, resulting in a drastic breakdown of infrastructure. The general populace was left to fend for itself and the city-states disbanded into the wilderness.
See, I agree with this take on the matter, but we can't be sure on anything really. My theory is similar to yours in that it centers around political instability and the Maya religion. These were very superstitious people, and their kings (who were more like city mayors in today's terms), were viewed as god-men. If severe droughts hit the already overpopulated region, then the common people would have eventually lost faith in the kings they believed to be their intercessor between themselves and Chaak, the rain god. This would have led to rival political factions and families of the nobility fighting for the right to the throne, royal assasinations, and all forms of internal strife and perhaps deadly civil wars. The worried kings would have been desperate to divert their people's attention elsewhere, and what better way to do so but to unite the people in a time of war. So, warfare could have escalated until it was constant, total warfare. Competition for resources would have reached an all time high as well, which would have been a further impetus for war. Never-ending wars like that become savage, and brutal, and usually involve mass murder of civilians. Perhaps in order to escape the chaos and calamity of the cities, those not already dead from famine and warfare escaped into the dense jungles. With the social and political infrastructure dead, and the priestly class proved a bunch of cons, maybe the people gave up on the idea of returning to their fomer ways, and instead opted to remain in the jungle, which to them, was a safer bet. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
They probably just turned into other people. Like the ancient Anasazi became the modern day Pueblos. Same people genetically; different culture. The languages survive, though -- we had a Qechua speaker give a talk (in pretty good English) in one of my classes once. _________________ An apple a day....
They probably just turned into other people. Like the ancient Anasazi became the modern day Pueblos. Same people genetically; different culture. The languages survive, though -- we had a Qechua speaker give a talk (in pretty good English) in one of my classes once.
Uhum, they're still called the Maya, and they still speak the same language. The only difference is that they're civilization declined to such an extent that it no longer merited being called a civilization. _________________ Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Favorite languages = English/Spanish
Followed by Italian/French/Dutch
As I said, cultures can change over time, while the people remain present. And names like Anasazi, Mogollon, Moundbuilder, etc. are simply the names other people attributed to those tribes -- they were certainly not what the tribes called themselves. The same can be said for many modern tribes -- Navajo, Pueblo, Nez Perce, Blackfoot, etc. are all names OTHER people have given them. The fact that this has not happened to the Maya is not terribly significant to your original question. _________________ An apple a day....
I'm just reading a fascinating article about the disappearance of the Maya civilization in the National Geographic magazine I bought yesterday.
So far I only know just a little thing about it.
However, the article highlights many possible factors as to why the civilization disappeared. And the factors are exactly what Uriel has mentioned.
But there's one other thing. The Maya royalties were young and quite greedy. Many royalties demanded gold, jewelry, etc. to enhance their wealth and status and this created rivalries that resulted in endless of violence and bloodshed across the Maya world (especially between two cities - Tikal and Calakmul). Basically, this just went out of control and this caused the civilization to fall apart.
Nowadays, there are still many people living in the region who are of Maya origin.
My best friend is a Mayan, born in Guatemala and now living here in London. His extended family still in Guatemala speak mainly Mayan.
_________________ Zoriona tximelata bat bezalakoa da: bilatzen baduzu, hegaldatuko besterik ez da, baina gelditzen bazara, dator eta zure sorbaldan jartzen da.
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