Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Seńora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: Translation request
I pretty much get the gist of this phrase-- "Casse-toi alors, pauvre con !" -- but on a scale of 1 to 5 (5 being the worst), how offensive is it? How would you say it in English?
An utterance like fucking bastard isn't necessarily all that offensive here anymore — it depends very much on the context. So for example, if I accidently broke a glass, I can imagine that some of my housemates (who are about the same age as me) might call me a 'fucking bastard' because of it — but I wouldn't be offended by them saying that at all. But on the other hand, if I called my grandmother a 'fucking bastard', it would be completely different.
So, depending on the context, it may or may not be appropriate to translate pauvre con as fucking bastard.
An utterance like fucking bastard isn't necessarily all that offensive here anymore — it depends very much on the context. So for example, if I accidently broke a glass, I can imagine that some of my housemates (who are about the same age as me) might call me a 'fucking bastard' because of it — but I wouldn't be offended by them saying that at all. But on the other hand, if I called my grandmother a 'fucking bastard', it would be completely different.
So, depending on the context, it may or may not be appropriate to translate pauvre con as fucking bastard.
The problem for Polish people learning English is proper pronunciation of "can't" because many people tend to pronounce it in a way that make many teachers (especially native speakers) blush. Therefore students are encouraged to pronounce this very word as "cannot".
The problem for Polish people learning English is proper pronunciation of "can't" because many people tend to pronounce it in a way that make many teachers (especially native speakers) blush. Therefore students are encouraged to pronounce this very word as "cannot".
Don't take offence in Singapore then if someone tells you that you can't do something. He is simply placing constraints on what you can and cannot do.
I saw the video and I think Sarkozy was being positively friendly as the sentence left his lips. Why, he was grinning like a Chesire cat! I would hence disagree that what he said was designed to give maximum offence. He must had also been aware that many cameras were trained upon him.
So the proper translation would probably be "Oh piss off, you sorry bastard" - or something to that effect.
Somehow, I feel that if he'd wanted to make a stronger statement, he'd have replaced con with connard or salopard.
But well, casse-toi is rather vulgar. It probably ranks above fous le camp on the vulgarity index. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
The problem for Polish people learning English is proper pronunciation of "can't" because many people tend to pronounce it in a way that make many teachers (especially native speakers) blush. Therefore students are encouraged to pronounce this very word as "cannot".
Hungarians tend to do the same, too. However, no-one (or not many people) seem to realise it, so it's not an issue over here. When I try to point it out, they think I'm splitting hairs.
One of my students (an adult) kept saying 'I cunt (=can't)' all the time. I'm not really that sarcastic (at least I'm trying hard not to be ) but I had enough and told him that what he had said was grammatically incorrect, because he had left out the predicate and the indefinite article. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Seńora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:
Thanks for answering my question. I've read so many different translations of this Sarkozian rift, from the very mild, "Get lost, poor idiot!" to the offensive "Fuck off, bloody asshole!" that I wasn't sure whether the ensuing brouhaha was warranted. Of course, even the most mild translation might be a bit off-putting since it came from a head of state. But, whatever, I kind of like it when politicians speak their mind.
I kind of like it when politicians speak their mind.
That would be refreshing, I suppose. But I don't think a President should be calling people bastards. He reminds me of Justin Timberlake, that Sarkozy. In pictures he looks more like some sort of "star" than a President, and then he goes and calls somebody a "bloody bastard", or whatever it was he said. Timberlake got pissed off at some fans when he was in Sweden and shouted "you fucks shouldn't be allowed to reproduce!", or something like that.
Our PM told basically the same thing to a farmer last year but in a much more cultivated form ("Well, if you don't like it, you might as well go away and stay abroad" or something like that) but it caused public outrage. He has some obscenities up his sleave, though - everyone knows it after hearing his infamous Öszöd speech. _________________ Az alvástól megéhezem. Az evéstől elálmosodom. Az élet szép.
Thanks for answering my question. I've read so many different translations of this Sarkozian rift, from the very mild, "Get lost, poor idiot!" to the offensive "Fuck off, bloody asshole!" that I wasn't sure whether the ensuing brouhaha was warranted.
It is very difficult to translate the level of an insult from one language to another. We tend to use words that doesn't have necessary the same connotations in both. It seems to me that it wasn't as hard as "fuck off, bloody asshole" but much more than "get lost, poor idiot".
my opinion is that it wouln't be that much a scandal if it would be coming from Mr everybody - everyone use this kind of insults to answer someone that would hurt your pride. But the big problem is that he is not everybody, he has a function that is supposed to be at once depersonalized, exemplary and sacralized. A president is not supposed to act as M. everybody and this is what was very shoking to us.
I think this is an example of how a supposed virtue can be a defect in different circumstances. Admirers can say that Mr Sarkozy is a plain speaker who says what he means, and means what he says. He is transparent (read: you can read his mind) and doesn't mince his words.
On the other hand, I think it is a bit of a shame that presidential decorum has been breached. On one hand, I firmly believe that the visitor was also in the wrong (how can one be so ungracious as to insult a head of state without rhyme nor reason?). On the other, Mr Sarkozy should not have descended to his level by allowing himself to be provoked and engaging in a mini slanging match. This was a bait danged in front by his critics which he unfortunately took.
I can only imagine what the Queen would have done if Her Majesty were to find herself in this unfortunate position. She'd probably smile at her heckler and then pretend that he doesn't exist. _________________ Hillary Clinton is an acquired taste which I have clearly yet to acquire.
Who would think that such innocent-looking word like "con" can be offensive?
Well, in times now past <con>, a grammatical masculine, was perceived as meaning what it meant originally : cunt or feminine genitalia. But today <con> refers to animates, if I may say, and particularly to stupid and/or contemptible people. Of course <conne> is the feminine for <con> and both may be suffixed : <con> → <connard>, <conne> → <connasse> to add insult to injury.
Examples (please check "English" versions) :
pauvre con — pauvre conne → poor twat — poor twit
gros con — grosse conne → fat asshole
petit con — petite conne → little jackass
grand con — ? → big bugger
con de premičre — conne de premičre → first-class asshole — first-class cunt
con de chez con — conne de chez conne → real fucker
roi des cons — reine des connes → king of bastards — queen of cunts
sale con — sale conne → filthy prick — cocksucker
vrai con — vraie conne → total asshole
vieux con — vieille conne → old fart
con fini — conne finie → total bastard — total cunt
quel con ! — quelle conne ! → what a bugger ! what a cunt !
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However, no-one (or not many people) seem to realise it, so it's not an issue over here. When I try to point it out, they think I'm splitting hairs. 
) but I had enough and told him that what he had said was grammatically incorrect, because he had left out the predicate and the indefinite article. 
